The Amazing Spider-Man 2 (Post-release)
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crabra comander
Master Member
Yes, there were definitely some story elements I could have done without. I am not really enjoying the connection Peter has with his biological parents. The plane scene was OK, but the calculator scene I found a bit ridiculous. What if he had simply thrown away the calculator?! And this really takes away from Uncle Ben's greatness.
But Apart from that and the Electro inner monologue soundtrack, I really enjoyed it. But please, feel free to pick away at the film.
But Apart from that and the Electro inner monologue soundtrack, I really enjoyed it. But please, feel free to pick away at the film.
Father
Sr Member
Haven't seen the movie yet but just downloaded the soundtrack... Haven't heard the theme from the last movie and I'm not loving the dub-step, although maybe I should have expected it with today's music style and Electro as one of the main villains.
So far, it's not doing for me what the last soundtrack did in the least.
So far, it's not doing for me what the last soundtrack did in the least.
Aron Wohlfart
Sr Member
The dubstep elements fit perfect with the scenes in the movie cause of electro.
I love dubstep, but even if i would not i would say that it fits perfectly
Especially cause some dubstep elements have the same sounds like electricity.
Haha dont know how to say it better in english.
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JD
Master Member
There have been some great comic book movies: I found just about every Marvel production to be pretty darn near perfect (and I'm taking the Marvel Studio flicks: Iron Man, Thor, Cap, Avengers) - I even liked IM3 which was panned here.
But, as I said this Spider-Man flick was just terrible. ...and I'm not alone in the Schumacher comparisons:
Is ?The Amazing Spider-Man 2? The Modern ?Batman And Robin?? | UPROXX
"...pretty much everybody, us included, hated The Amazing Spider-Man 2. Audiences agreed; apparently it’s believed the movie will quickly fade. And some are even whispering it’s the next Batman & Robin."
However, the commentary does relent: "The Amazing Spider-Man 2 is a bad movie. That’s undeniable. What’s also undeniable is that Batman & Robin is worse by every conceivable measure of quality. So, no, it is not nearly that bad. And Thank God." I might agree with this - ASM2 had strong performances by Garfield and Stone and they had a chemistry that moved the movie, these two factors alone had more substance than anything in Batman & Robin. But, the Schumacher bat-films have had more time to fester and to allow the dislike to grow - given some time, ASM2 might have a similar effect.
This isn't the only site that compares Spidey 2 and Schumacher's Batman - the others aren't too hard to find.
Bottom line for me is there have been some great comic book movies the last few years - the most recent, Captain America The Winter Soldier left some big shoes for ASM2 to fill and it didn't come close.
But, as I said this Spider-Man flick was just terrible. ...and I'm not alone in the Schumacher comparisons:
Is ?The Amazing Spider-Man 2? The Modern ?Batman And Robin?? | UPROXX
"...pretty much everybody, us included, hated The Amazing Spider-Man 2. Audiences agreed; apparently it’s believed the movie will quickly fade. And some are even whispering it’s the next Batman & Robin."
However, the commentary does relent: "The Amazing Spider-Man 2 is a bad movie. That’s undeniable. What’s also undeniable is that Batman & Robin is worse by every conceivable measure of quality. So, no, it is not nearly that bad. And Thank God." I might agree with this - ASM2 had strong performances by Garfield and Stone and they had a chemistry that moved the movie, these two factors alone had more substance than anything in Batman & Robin. But, the Schumacher bat-films have had more time to fester and to allow the dislike to grow - given some time, ASM2 might have a similar effect.
This isn't the only site that compares Spidey 2 and Schumacher's Batman - the others aren't too hard to find.
Bottom line for me is there have been some great comic book movies the last few years - the most recent, Captain America The Winter Soldier left some big shoes for ASM2 to fill and it didn't come close.
Aron Wohlfart
Sr Member
Well its a personal opinion. If u dont like it its ok
but u cant say its bad cause its about what ppl like. I and alot of people loved it and think its one of the best comic book movie ever
Sure winter soldier was great. But it was a spy movie. Tasm2 is a other kind of movie.
I think it could almost go into a drama. Not sure.
I loved both movies tho. I just think u ant compare apples and oranges
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JD
Master Member
I can say it's bad because I am basing it on my personal opinion - if you thought it wasn't bad, that's great for you. The reviews are also a pretty clear indication - even "geek" sites are giving it mixed reviews at best. Rotten Tomatoes shows critics give it an average 5.9 of 10.Well its a personal opinion. If u dont like it its ok
I and alot of people loved it and think its one of the best comic book movie ever
Sure winter soldier was great. But it was a spy movie. Tasm2 is a other kind of movie.
I think it could almost go into a drama. Not sure.
I loved both movies tho. I just think u ant compare apples and oranges
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Captain America The Winter Soldier is a comic book super hero movie, same as The Amazing Spider-Man 2. They are different heroes with different styles and approaches - but, they are still very much comic book hero movies... just as Iron Man, Thor and the rest are, too.
Aron Wohlfart
Sr Member
And i meant u can say u think its bad and not that it is bad cause its about opinions. U get that?
But they are 2 different styles. One is more spy action like mission impossible and spidey is more a drama action mix
Even if they r both comic books.
Apples and oranges are both fruits and still i cant compare them
And if u put ur opinion on what other ppl critic about a movie its ok. I make my own opinion. Even tho i heard more good that bad reviews
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Onephattsi2
Well-Known Member
I must be in a minority here because I though ASM2 was am awesome movie. It was a a great "story" which a lot of super hero movies arent.
To say "if you liked it fine, but no need to be fiery about it" is a little hypocritical, because the people that didn't like it, hate it with a passion and attack everyone that does like it......
I personally enjoyed it more than Cap2... But that's just my opinion.
To say "if you liked it fine, but no need to be fiery about it" is a little hypocritical, because the people that didn't like it, hate it with a passion and attack everyone that does like it......
I personally enjoyed it more than Cap2... But that's just my opinion.
Aron Wohlfart
Sr Member
Agreed
Well i enjoyed it more than cap2 cause its spidey
cap2 was great tooSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
tubachris85x
Master Member
I have to agree with Aron. It's two separate films that focus on completely different circumstances. I think that the reason people are even trying to compare winter solider w/ ASM2 is because of how close their release dates in theaters have been. I really don't get how people can compare it to Batman and Robin either. That film was atrocious on many levels and was by far an incredibly campy film that didn't lend itself to being as "serious" or true to source material, so bring B&R as a direct comparison really is day and night.
Next thing, since winter soldier keeps getting brought up. I got it, Marvel is making spectacular movies based on the Avengers, and I feel just the same as most do about those films. However, that story line and what Marvel has set up for the Avengers have been long planned, thought out and carefully crafted in a way that allows itself to go above and beyond the norm for superhero/comic films. To add to this, as a result, they spent the last couple of years or so with releasing individual movies of these characters to set up for the combined Avenger films and soon to be with Guardians of the Galaxy. What I'm trying to say with all this is that these characters have a very strict story that they're all following where they can be sewn together for a much larger story in which they all relate and effect each other, as they are not all completely stand-alone films.
Amazing Spiderman however, is a reboot. It's the 2nd movie, starting off from an origin film. While I loved the Maguire spidey, mostly in the first one, I felt that AMS took it in a more comic-direct style of portraying the character VS the Maguire spidey. In another way of looking at it, though not necessarily to that extreme, it's like how most now feel when watching the Stallone Judge Dredd VS the 2012 DREDD with Karl Urban.
I feel that even if you really hate the ASM films, you should at least give credit where credit is due, as the key elements that they put is quit reflective of the comic:
- They clearly portray Peter's intelligence, where they didn't focus too much on that with Toby's version. The choice to follow with the original series style of ASM having to construct web shooters was also a reflection of his intellect, and between both the first and 2nd ASM, I really feel they got that message across to anyone. I remember in one of the spidey comics, there's a point in time where the world knows his identity, he was able to get the world to "forget" that, and one character (IIRC, it was Norman Osborn) who was suspect, but later believed that Peter was merely building spiderman's equipment because he felt that Spiderman having those abilities while being that super-intelligent was "implausible."
- Bullet time; I got that you guys are sick of seeing it in films. I think though that you have to get over it, because that's how scenes are being filmed. One thing you've got to consider is that style of filming is necessary for showing Spiderman's abilities. It's not arbitrary or "just because." It's to show you, "hey, spiderman has the almost 'precognition' to danger that allows him to move in extraordinary speeds to avoid bodily harm" such as when the Rhino was firing at him at near point blank range. The next sequence, is what I mentioned before, being the times square scene in which he needs to prevent those people from getting electrocuted. Again, it was a slo motion scene, "bullet time," which showed the audience that he was able to identify, or "sense" the various dangers that can harm others, which is why they use that sequence in slo motion to go about pinpointing those dangers, all supposed to be happening simultaneously, in a super-human rate of speed. It's not to throw BS out there for just special effects. It had a purpose, and that scene should have been a clear method of showing the audience how acute his spider-sense actually is. The other slo motion sequences that come to mind are during his fight with Electro at the power grid. Yea, I'll give it that those particular scenes were for effect and looks, but the way I saw it was that while it was stylized, it gave you the chance to witness Electro's ability to move and materialize in the fashion they portrayed him, instead of just seeing a blue/purple streak running around and not giving you much of a clear shot of him.
- The other clip, that comes to mind when watching the film was when Electro uses the obscorp tower as a way to show his face (like a giant screen) and was speaking to spiderman. As short and minor as that one little sequence is, I felt that gave me chills in that it was just like what you see in the animated versions of the past, or that eerily creepy sensation of the chaotic universe that surrounds spiderman and his villains. I think back to the Spiderman ride at Universal Islands of Adventure, where it's mostly based off of the cartoon version. That ride shows a good portion of the villains but in a way that shows that the world they're in is ridiculously dangerous in a eery way. I guess I can't explain it well enough, but that one small scene in my mind captured the essential "feeling" of being in Spiderman's world.
- His costume. It's already been established that ASM2's costume is the most true to original source so far. I don't think that can be disputed. They even got Gwen's costume pretty much spot on for her final scene.
- Overall movement and personality. I wasn't too sure about how this actor's appearance as Peter Parker would work, though in the first one, I felt that he wasn't nearly as "nerdy" or socially outcast as the original comic shows him as, but it's supposedly based off the ultimate series. I think by ASM2, they got his character acting better, especially during fight sequences, or general web-swinging, etc. The scene with him in the back of the truck trying to catch all the plutonium pieces was almost cartoonish in how they made him move around, but then again, that's really how he's supposed to be able to move. It's super-human speeds and agility. If we try to ground everything in "reality," then it wouldn't really look "super-human." It's the spiderman universe, well, the Marvel universe for that matter. His fighting style is not necessarily an established one or that anything he's trained in. It's random and relies on his speed, strength, cognition (spidey sense) and intelligence to defeating others, so it's a "level up" that compensates him for a lack of real combative training. All of which have been prevalent in both ASM films.
- Relationship between Parker and Gwen. I actually felt convinced that they were really in love with each other. It's one of the better acting sequences I have seen where in other films have forced this in a way that made it unbearable (Star Wars prequels come to mind). They made it that much more believable by the end that it hit me in the feels when they show her death. They had to set up that short sequence just before electro pops up, with him and her on the bridge, as it intensified the emotional aspect of their relationship leading to her death, and I feel they conveyed that pretty well. It's like music composition. The music you make is successful when you can get it to convey the emotions to the listener that you intended it to.
- Jamie Fox as electro. I got it that I can see him playing a "bad nerd." I can say that I have actually met people (knew one) that was just like how Max Dillon's character was. It's very stereotypical but there are really people out there that can be compared to Max's character. He social outcast reflected how he turned out when transforming into a super-human. He was always ignored by his peers, treated as a nobody. They had to make that apparent in a short time frame, and they did. He just wanted attention and to be liked by others, which is why he became obsessed with spiderman after he was saved by him. It was the one person Max looked up to and admired, because spidey made him feel better than anyone else in the film ever did. When you look at it, Electro's story is a tragic one. He unwillingly turned into what he did because of other people's negligence and really should have died. He didn't understand what happened to him, so in times square, he was just trying to not do anything, but because of his powers, not knowing how to control them yet, people resented him even much more, the cops tried to kill him. So when spidey does show up, Electro saw him as a way out, but due to circumstances, his powers not in complete control, and that sniper sitting up top deciding to fire at him, well, it created a huge misunderstanding to which Max just saw it as a lose lose for him. It bred his hate towards the one person he looked up to.
Next thing, since winter soldier keeps getting brought up. I got it, Marvel is making spectacular movies based on the Avengers, and I feel just the same as most do about those films. However, that story line and what Marvel has set up for the Avengers have been long planned, thought out and carefully crafted in a way that allows itself to go above and beyond the norm for superhero/comic films. To add to this, as a result, they spent the last couple of years or so with releasing individual movies of these characters to set up for the combined Avenger films and soon to be with Guardians of the Galaxy. What I'm trying to say with all this is that these characters have a very strict story that they're all following where they can be sewn together for a much larger story in which they all relate and effect each other, as they are not all completely stand-alone films.
Amazing Spiderman however, is a reboot. It's the 2nd movie, starting off from an origin film. While I loved the Maguire spidey, mostly in the first one, I felt that AMS took it in a more comic-direct style of portraying the character VS the Maguire spidey. In another way of looking at it, though not necessarily to that extreme, it's like how most now feel when watching the Stallone Judge Dredd VS the 2012 DREDD with Karl Urban.
I feel that even if you really hate the ASM films, you should at least give credit where credit is due, as the key elements that they put is quit reflective of the comic:
- They clearly portray Peter's intelligence, where they didn't focus too much on that with Toby's version. The choice to follow with the original series style of ASM having to construct web shooters was also a reflection of his intellect, and between both the first and 2nd ASM, I really feel they got that message across to anyone. I remember in one of the spidey comics, there's a point in time where the world knows his identity, he was able to get the world to "forget" that, and one character (IIRC, it was Norman Osborn) who was suspect, but later believed that Peter was merely building spiderman's equipment because he felt that Spiderman having those abilities while being that super-intelligent was "implausible."
- Bullet time; I got that you guys are sick of seeing it in films. I think though that you have to get over it, because that's how scenes are being filmed. One thing you've got to consider is that style of filming is necessary for showing Spiderman's abilities. It's not arbitrary or "just because." It's to show you, "hey, spiderman has the almost 'precognition' to danger that allows him to move in extraordinary speeds to avoid bodily harm" such as when the Rhino was firing at him at near point blank range. The next sequence, is what I mentioned before, being the times square scene in which he needs to prevent those people from getting electrocuted. Again, it was a slo motion scene, "bullet time," which showed the audience that he was able to identify, or "sense" the various dangers that can harm others, which is why they use that sequence in slo motion to go about pinpointing those dangers, all supposed to be happening simultaneously, in a super-human rate of speed. It's not to throw BS out there for just special effects. It had a purpose, and that scene should have been a clear method of showing the audience how acute his spider-sense actually is. The other slo motion sequences that come to mind are during his fight with Electro at the power grid. Yea, I'll give it that those particular scenes were for effect and looks, but the way I saw it was that while it was stylized, it gave you the chance to witness Electro's ability to move and materialize in the fashion they portrayed him, instead of just seeing a blue/purple streak running around and not giving you much of a clear shot of him.
- The other clip, that comes to mind when watching the film was when Electro uses the obscorp tower as a way to show his face (like a giant screen) and was speaking to spiderman. As short and minor as that one little sequence is, I felt that gave me chills in that it was just like what you see in the animated versions of the past, or that eerily creepy sensation of the chaotic universe that surrounds spiderman and his villains. I think back to the Spiderman ride at Universal Islands of Adventure, where it's mostly based off of the cartoon version. That ride shows a good portion of the villains but in a way that shows that the world they're in is ridiculously dangerous in a eery way. I guess I can't explain it well enough, but that one small scene in my mind captured the essential "feeling" of being in Spiderman's world.
- His costume. It's already been established that ASM2's costume is the most true to original source so far. I don't think that can be disputed. They even got Gwen's costume pretty much spot on for her final scene.
- Overall movement and personality. I wasn't too sure about how this actor's appearance as Peter Parker would work, though in the first one, I felt that he wasn't nearly as "nerdy" or socially outcast as the original comic shows him as, but it's supposedly based off the ultimate series. I think by ASM2, they got his character acting better, especially during fight sequences, or general web-swinging, etc. The scene with him in the back of the truck trying to catch all the plutonium pieces was almost cartoonish in how they made him move around, but then again, that's really how he's supposed to be able to move. It's super-human speeds and agility. If we try to ground everything in "reality," then it wouldn't really look "super-human." It's the spiderman universe, well, the Marvel universe for that matter. His fighting style is not necessarily an established one or that anything he's trained in. It's random and relies on his speed, strength, cognition (spidey sense) and intelligence to defeating others, so it's a "level up" that compensates him for a lack of real combative training. All of which have been prevalent in both ASM films.
- Relationship between Parker and Gwen. I actually felt convinced that they were really in love with each other. It's one of the better acting sequences I have seen where in other films have forced this in a way that made it unbearable (Star Wars prequels come to mind). They made it that much more believable by the end that it hit me in the feels when they show her death. They had to set up that short sequence just before electro pops up, with him and her on the bridge, as it intensified the emotional aspect of their relationship leading to her death, and I feel they conveyed that pretty well. It's like music composition. The music you make is successful when you can get it to convey the emotions to the listener that you intended it to.
- Jamie Fox as electro. I got it that I can see him playing a "bad nerd." I can say that I have actually met people (knew one) that was just like how Max Dillon's character was. It's very stereotypical but there are really people out there that can be compared to Max's character. He social outcast reflected how he turned out when transforming into a super-human. He was always ignored by his peers, treated as a nobody. They had to make that apparent in a short time frame, and they did. He just wanted attention and to be liked by others, which is why he became obsessed with spiderman after he was saved by him. It was the one person Max looked up to and admired, because spidey made him feel better than anyone else in the film ever did. When you look at it, Electro's story is a tragic one. He unwillingly turned into what he did because of other people's negligence and really should have died. He didn't understand what happened to him, so in times square, he was just trying to not do anything, but because of his powers, not knowing how to control them yet, people resented him even much more, the cops tried to kill him. So when spidey does show up, Electro saw him as a way out, but due to circumstances, his powers not in complete control, and that sniper sitting up top deciding to fire at him, well, it created a huge misunderstanding to which Max just saw it as a lose lose for him. It bred his hate towards the one person he looked up to.
Jaitea
Master Member
Really when you break it down like you have, the Times Square 'Bullet Time' scene would have been more effective had they not used similar slo-mo effects through the movie just for style.
I'm actually glad that there is a split in tastes for this movie rather than it being considered unanimously a turkey, there were scenes that I did feel were done well but to me the bad outballanced the good
J
SILVERTRON
Jr Member
I really don't understand all these bad reviews. I understand films are personal to people and not everyone's going to like everything, but as a Spider-Man fan, as I imaging a large majority of people on this thread are, just seeing Spidey web-slingin around NYC is frigging amazing!!
But apart from that, this IS a great movie that has a bit of everything. An immersing story, much more true to the comics which I think we all appreciate, a love story you can believe, great action, mind boggling CGI, an incredible soundtrack, and and at the base of it all, a character you actually care about.
Now back in the day I loved the Raimi trilogy, but having re watched them recently, they haven't stood the test of time well, and are really corny in some scenes. But I still enjoy watching them, because I love Spider-Man, and seeing him in real life, crawling up buildings and backflipping over bad guys is what i always wanted to see as a kid reading those comics.
In my opinion, and I appreciate others have their own opinion, this is the best Spider-Man film yet. That's not to say it didn't have flaws, or to say there were parts of it that I thought they could've done better, but as a movie based on a comic book character, this was bloody AWESOME!
And for the record, I think Andrew Garfield is perfect for playing Peter Parker.
I've seen the film twice now and I much preferred it the second time round. Don't ask me why... Maybe I was apprehensive watching it for the first time, maybe I was too busy hoping it was everything I wanted it to be that I didn't take it all in, I don't know, but the 2nd time round I just enjoyed it a lot more. And I still welled up at THAT scene, even though I knew it was coming.
I'm yet to speak to anyone that didn't like the movie, both hardcore and non Spidey fans, so it amazes me it's getting such a beating here. And comparing it to Batman & Robin is ludicrous!
Be free to voice your opinions, but it bugs me a bit when people spend too much time nit-picking what they didn't like about movies instead of just sitting back and enjoying them.
Cheers =]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
But apart from that, this IS a great movie that has a bit of everything. An immersing story, much more true to the comics which I think we all appreciate, a love story you can believe, great action, mind boggling CGI, an incredible soundtrack, and and at the base of it all, a character you actually care about.
Now back in the day I loved the Raimi trilogy, but having re watched them recently, they haven't stood the test of time well, and are really corny in some scenes. But I still enjoy watching them, because I love Spider-Man, and seeing him in real life, crawling up buildings and backflipping over bad guys is what i always wanted to see as a kid reading those comics.
In my opinion, and I appreciate others have their own opinion, this is the best Spider-Man film yet. That's not to say it didn't have flaws, or to say there were parts of it that I thought they could've done better, but as a movie based on a comic book character, this was bloody AWESOME!
And for the record, I think Andrew Garfield is perfect for playing Peter Parker.
I've seen the film twice now and I much preferred it the second time round. Don't ask me why... Maybe I was apprehensive watching it for the first time, maybe I was too busy hoping it was everything I wanted it to be that I didn't take it all in, I don't know, but the 2nd time round I just enjoyed it a lot more. And I still welled up at THAT scene, even though I knew it was coming.
I'm yet to speak to anyone that didn't like the movie, both hardcore and non Spidey fans, so it amazes me it's getting such a beating here. And comparing it to Batman & Robin is ludicrous!
Be free to voice your opinions, but it bugs me a bit when people spend too much time nit-picking what they didn't like about movies instead of just sitting back and enjoying them.
Cheers =]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
tubachris85x
Master Member
I don't really know any other real filmography style to show slo motion with out slo motion. If I had to choose one scene for them to use only slo-mo once in the entire film, that would have been it. If they didn't, you'd wouldn't have been able to see what exactly he was doing, or at least why he was doing when the slo mo stopped. It established the dangers present so the next scene when he takes action, it's sped up but doesn't leave you confused as to why is he slinging webs at those people's arms and yanking them away? It's the "amazing" spider man, and how else would someone see a feat like that as?
Jaitea
Master Member
I'd sit back and enjoy the movie if it were any good
It's not just getting a beating here, most of the reviews are slating it
Have a watch at the Red Letter Media review......you can skip past the Transendence review, they start talking about Spidey at 17:40:
[video]http://blip.tv/redlettermedia/half-in-the-bag-episode-70-transcendence-and-the-amazing-spider-man-2-6874268[/video]
...and this nice couple say a few words:
I don't really have anything else to add about this film, it really was a bad big budget movie,.....shame
J
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JD
Master Member
Unfortunately, I think maybe you're not looking at that movie all that subjectively. I think the reviews have been spot on - especially the comparisons to Schumacher's Batman & Robin; c'mon they even stole Arnold's make-up.
The one thing this movie did get right, to me at least... is Spidey, when he is in costume and being Spider-Man, the rest was fluff and just too silly to be any type of great film. As a Spider-Man fan, I wanted to like this more, but the negative definitely outweighed the positive for me. The villains were definitely the worst part of this, they just seemed to so poorly thought out and didn't work at all for me.
Spider-Man is much more than Spidey swinging through New York and crawling up walls. Unfortunately, so much of what makes him cool is just lost by the terrible storyline with Electro and the Goblin.
I am surprised they actually went through with it and killed Gwen... but, did they really need to tell us they were going to kill her off within the first ten minutes? Okay, they didn't actually come out and say it... but, it was obvious that it was going to happen right from her speech and from the Denis Leary's ghostly appearances. Maybe it was supposed to be clever foreshadowing... but instead it became GLARING PLOT POINT - LOOK! LOOK! SHE'S GOING TO DIE. She was well played by Emma Stone and I for one, would definitely overlook it if they decided to dye her hair red and make her MJ.
I wanted to enjoy this, I wanted to be surprised at a great film. But, the errors are way too obvious and the Batman & Robin comparison is well deserved.
Web Head
Active Member
I so agree. The movie had some opportunities but was still great. Comparing this to Captain America is also ridiculous.
nitrox
Sr Member
I don't see how anyone can compare this movie to Batman and Robin, it's not even in the same ballpark. So the bad guy is blue and instantly it gets compared to Mr Freeze which is also inaccurate, if anything it's more like the blue dude from Watchmen.
Batman and Robin is a travesty of a movie, horrific constant one-liners, batman credit cards, bendy ice on cars, terrible set and overall production design, and nipples.
This is nothing like that in the slightest. Yes it has some weak points but it is by no means a terrible movie.
Batman and Robin is a travesty of a movie, horrific constant one-liners, batman credit cards, bendy ice on cars, terrible set and overall production design, and nipples.
This is nothing like that in the slightest. Yes it has some weak points but it is by no means a terrible movie.
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