Joek3rr
Master Member
If I didn’t know any better. The 9 inches of snow on the ground would make me think it's December.
Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Pre-release)
- Thread starter Bryancd
- Start date
If I didn’t know any better. The 9 inches of snow on the ground would make me think it's December.
Joek3rr
Master Member
Not it wasn't just the story of Luke. His was always meant to be just a part ot the whole.
On December 29, 1975, in conversation with Alan Dean Foster per the novelization of Star Wars, Lucas mentioned the prequel trilogy along with what would become Episodes V and VI: “I want to have Luke kiss the Princess in the second book. In the third book, I want the story just about the soap opera of the Skywalker family, which ends with the destruction of the Empire. Then someday I want to do the back story of Kenobi as a young man – a story of the Jedi and how the Emperor eventually takes over and turns the whole thing from a Republic into an Empire, and tricks all the Jedi and kills them. The whole battle where Luke’s father gets killed. That would be impossible to do, but it’s great to dream about.”
Frogfreak
Sr Member
Where do you live? I love snow! Here in Texas it's pretty rare.If I didn’t know any better. The 9 inches of snow on the ground would make me think it's December.
Joek3rr
Master Member
I live in Hoth.....er Montana.Where do you live? I love snow! Here in Texas it's pretty rare.
Tan Djarka
Sr Member
The PT was all about Anakin. The OT was all about Luke. The ST is all about the Benjamins!
Joek3rr
Master Member
You know those early concepts of the landspeeder certainly have that vibe.
"Always." *lol* There's no always with George. You know the history of Star Wars enough to know that. The bit of the ADF conversation you quoted, he still refers to Anakin getting killed. He and Vader were separate characters up until 1979 in story sessions for Empire. And after that, in interviews, he "always" intended that.
What Marquand's referring to in that text grab? The all nine episodes? That was early enough in the pre-production of Jedi that there was still going to be another Luke trilogy after that film, wherein he met and ultimately defeated the Emperor -- he is the "supreme intelligence" being referred to.
Joek3rr
Master Member
True true. My point being, George had this idea of there being a prequel story before Luke, since at least of 1975. So saying Star Wars is just the story of Luke until George retconned it, is slightly incorrect?
cboath
Master Member
Not it wasn't just the story of Luke. His was always meant to be just a part ot the whole.
View attachment 1063461
On December 29, 1975, in conversation with Alan Dean Foster per the novelization of Star Wars, Lucas mentioned the prequel trilogy along with what would become Episodes V and VI: “I want to have Luke kiss the Princess in the second book. In the third book, I want the story just about the soap opera of the Skywalker family, which ends with the destruction of the Empire. Then someday I want to do the back story of Kenobi as a young man – a story of the Jedi and how the Emperor eventually takes over and turns the whole thing from a Republic into an Empire, and tricks all the Jedi and kills them. The whole battle where Luke’s father gets killed. That would be impossible to do, but it’s great to dream about.”
As you said, it 'ends with the destruction of the Empire' which happened in ROTJ. The FO, is not the empire. As George himself said after ROTJ when asked about sequels....he didn't have a plan, his answer was something to the tune of 'so what does Luke do next?'.
What's happening now was never 'part of the plan'. His grand plan when it was 12 and 9 episodes was to have the emperor be defeated and the empire get defeated at the end. It all got moved into ROTJ.
cboath
Master Member
No, because that's not what I said. He retconned it by saying the OT was the story of Vader all along. It wasn't. The OT (not the entire saga) was the story of luke. It's not to say he didn't have idea and whatnot for prequels, he did. But they weren't completely fleshed out either as vader wasn't luke's father until after ANH hit theaters once or twice. That came later. He said when working on the prequels that the whole thing was really the story of vader, and it's not. I'd agree it's the story of the family/lineage. But they also squarely addressed that in the OT. They haven't really in the ST and THAT is my point. You can't crown something the end of the Skywalker saga when you have not been focusing on that family and it's history. They've not done squat to tie the ST to the prior 6 at all really - storywise. And, honestly, i don't think they have to.....unless you're saying this ties everything together. Then, uh, you kinda need to lay those seeds and address it from the start.
They haven't made this about family. The OT turns on Luke learning vader is his father. One of his biggest motivations in ROTJ is saving his father. There's nothing along those lines in the ST other than Luke facing him and even then acknowledging he can't save him. Not sure where that realization comes from since if Vader can be 'saved' anyone can. But, whatever. They could have played up the family aspect but have opted to not to, which is odd if you're making this a capstone trilogy of the saga of a family.
You COULD pull it all back to family, but that would have to hinge on another surprise reveal that Rey is a skywalker, but, if this is the end of the saga of the family, kylo has to die and rey can't be one otherwise the story goes on....no?
Plus the PT had Anakin as its lead protagonist, the OT had Luke (both Skywalkers) and the the ST has Rey (fill in the blank last name) though highly unlikely Skywalker.
Seems silly to say this will be the cap to a nine part saga of that lineage when the only new character to have a blood connection is Ben Solo, and even he is a nephew and not the main focus of the story. Rey is supposed to be the focus and we still don't know all that much about her. Idk.
Seems silly to say this will be the cap to a nine part saga of that lineage when the only new character to have a blood connection is Ben Solo, and even he is a nephew and not the main focus of the story. Rey is supposed to be the focus and we still don't know all that much about her. Idk.
Joek3rr
Master Member
What he said in 75 became the rough groundwork for the OT and PT. He talks about a second and third book. And the story ending with the third book. And then goes on to talk about a prequel story with Obi-Wan. But by 76 he's wanting to do 12 movies.
“You know, when I first did this, it was four trilogies,” Mark Hamill recalled in 2004, speaking of their conversation in 1976. “Twelve movies! Out on the desert, any time between setups… lots of free time. And George was talking about this whole thing… ‘Um, how’d you like to be in Episode IX?’ ‘When is that going to be?’ ‘2011.’ […] I said, ‘Well, what do you want me to do?’ He said, ‘You’ll just be like a cameo. You’ll be like Obi-Wan handing the lightsaber down to the next new hope.'”
In 1978, a Time magazine article reported that the Star Wars Corporation (a subsidiary Lucas had formed for Star Wars) would be producing “Star Wars II [Empire], and then, count them, 10 other planned sequels.” At that time Lucas consistently mentioned 12 films and even created a barebones outline to that effect.
In it, the original trilogy occupied Episodes VI, VII, and VIII; a Clone Wars trilogy took up Episodes II, III, and IV, while Episode I was a “prelude,” Episodes IX through XI were simply left blank – and Episode XII was the “conclusion.”
In 1979, however, Lucas said in an interview on the set of Empire, “The first script was one of six original stories I had written in the form of two trilogies. After the success of Star Wars, I added another trilogy. So now there are nine stories. The original two trilogies were conceived of as six films of which the first film was number four.”
While in postproduction in early 1980, Lucas used to kick back from time to time with ILM manager Jim Bloom and muse about the bigger story. “The first trilogy is about the young Ben Kenobi and the early life of Luke’s father when Luke is a little boy,” Lucas said. “This trilogy takes place some 20 years before the second trilogy, which includes Star Wars and Empire. About a year or two passes between each story of the trilogy and about 20 years between the trilogies. The entire saga spans about 55 years. I’m still left with three trilogies of nine films. At two hours each, that’s about eighteen hours of film!”
While Empire was originally part of a 12-film plan, by the time it was released, the number had clearly been reduced to nine. “The prequel stories exist — where Darth Vader came from, the whole story about Darth and Ben Kenobi — and it all takes place before Luke was born,” Lucas explained at the time. “The other one — what happens to Luke afterward — is much more ethereal. I have a tiny notebook full of notes on that. If I’m really ambitious, I could proceed to figure out what would have happened to Luke.”
I have to wonder what "ethereal" things George had in mind for Luke. Could it be that he was kicking around the idea for the sequels to focus on midi-chlorians and the Whills that far back?
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I have no doubts (or gripes for that matter) about Lucas having ideas for a 9 or 12 part saga for this whole thing.
What I do take issue with is his insistence that he had it all mapped out from the beginning because even by his own admission (at times) it has always been nebulous at best. Having a vague idea or concept for a story is not the same as having a fully fleshed draft to work from. He often wrote treatments which are nothing more than summaries of the basic direction he wanted the story to go. I know this from personal experience since I started my novel back in 1999. Ideas, characters, motivations, themes and plot lines shift constantly as you develop the story.
The thing I think George really doesn't understand is that once you release a story, you can't start changing it and not have people get upset with you. Ie. Endless revisions. You have to just let the story be what it is and move on to other things. Once it's released it has it's own life, much like a teenager going out into the world. At some point you have to let them go off into the work force, or to college and let them be their own person. The same could be said of art. The more you try and meddle with it, the more you risk ruining what made it special in the first place.
While it's certainly possible that George had conceived of the midichlorians and the Whills as far back as that, we will never know now because Disney chose not to go with that storyline.
What I do take issue with is his insistence that he had it all mapped out from the beginning because even by his own admission (at times) it has always been nebulous at best. Having a vague idea or concept for a story is not the same as having a fully fleshed draft to work from. He often wrote treatments which are nothing more than summaries of the basic direction he wanted the story to go. I know this from personal experience since I started my novel back in 1999. Ideas, characters, motivations, themes and plot lines shift constantly as you develop the story.
The thing I think George really doesn't understand is that once you release a story, you can't start changing it and not have people get upset with you. Ie. Endless revisions. You have to just let the story be what it is and move on to other things. Once it's released it has it's own life, much like a teenager going out into the world. At some point you have to let them go off into the work force, or to college and let them be their own person. The same could be said of art. The more you try and meddle with it, the more you risk ruining what made it special in the first place.
While it's certainly possible that George had conceived of the midichlorians and the Whills as far back as that, we will never know now because Disney chose not to go with that storyline.
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Joek3rr
Master Member
I don't know man, to me they sure seem to be hammering the whole family thing pretty big time. I mean someone is always talking about Ben's lineage. And for me, he's just as much as a protagonist as Rey.
robn1
Master Member
Red Tails wasn't even the first movie about the Tuskegee Airmen.
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