Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Pre-release)

I don't know man, to me they sure seem to be hammering the whole family thing pretty big time. I mean someone is always talking about Ben's lineage. And for me, he's just as much as a protagonist as Rey.
I don't doubt that they think this new trilogy revolves around family but it really doesn't if you look at it. I mean sure there are some familial relations (Luke and Leia appear) but to me even the dynamic between the three leads (Rey, Poe, and Finn) seem tenuous at best and not much of a family even in the sense that they have formed a deep friendship that resembles family. They have said that this will be different in 9 (though they have also hinted that this growth has happened between 8 and 9) so we will be seeing the end result rather than the growth itself. I suspect it will play just as bad as the relationship between Obi-Wan and Anakin in AOTC to ROTS. In AOTC they were always at odds with one another and then magically in ROTS they were best friends and it felt jarring because we didn't witness on screen the change that led to that.

Kylo Ren also can't be a protagonist because he's a villain. A conflicted villain but a villain none the less. I suspect they will try and redeem him though.

Rey is the protagonist. Kylo Ren is the antagonist.

I think that is cut and dry. Otherwise why would they be fighting every movie?
 
I don't doubt that they think this new trilogy revolves around family but it really doesn't if you look at it. I mean sure there are some familial relations (Luke and Leia appear) but to me even the dynamic between the three leads (Rey, Poe, and Finn) seem tenuous at best and not much of a family even in the sense that they have formed a deep friendship that resembles family. They have said that this will be different in 9 (though they have also hinted that this growth has happened between 8 and 9) so we will be seeing the end result rather than the growth itself. I suspect it will play just as bad as the relationship between Obi-Wan and Anakin in AOTC to ROTS. In AOTC they were always at odds with one another and then magically in ROTS they were best friends and it felt jarring because we didn't witness on screen the change that led to that.

Kylo Ren also can't be a protagonist because he's a villain. A conflicted villain but a villain none the less. I suspect they will try and redeem him though.

Rey is the protagonist. Kylo Ren is the antagonist.

I think that is cut and dry. Otherwise why would they be fighting every movie?

And I don't think that it necessarily needs to revolve around the family. It just has to show their story. Which for me, it has. I mean when you think about it, nearly every major thing that happens in the galaxy is because of the Skywalker's.

And I stand corrected, Ben is the antagonist. But that doesn't stop him from being a main character.
 
Oh he's definitely one of the leads. No doubt there. To me he's been the most interesting aspect of the ST.
 
Joek3rr, that's a good summation and serves to reinforce what I've been saying all along. ;) I can fine it down a little more, and remove some of the speculation and uncertainty. It was, indeed, twelve episodes at first, split into two trilogies each for the Obi-Wan and Luke eras. He later fined that down into what you posted above, where it was less "two trilogies" than a more blended saga arc. It's those early notes, including what you posted, that I drew a lot of my inspiration from in my rewrites.

When it went to nine, after Empire, that was around when his marriage to Marcia was ending and he was still grumpy about how little control he had over how Empire turned out. He was starting to sour on the whole thing and you can see that in what Marquand relayed to his interviewer. George was back to trilogies, and had mushed all the prologue/Anakin/Obi-Wan/fall of the Republic stuff to just one trilogy, but still had two full ones planned for Luke.

So at that point, Luke meeting Ben had been bumped from Episode V to IV, Empire was now V, the total number had been trimmed from twelve to nine, Jedi was going to be the rescue of Han, and the final trilogy would deal with the ultimate fate of the Empire and Luke's confrontation with the Emperor. Most of what I rememer about that last bit was that it was going to be in a lava cave deep below the Imperial palace, in the Emperor's place of power, and was described as Manchurian Candidate level psycho-drama mind-games stuff. It is quite possible all George's stuff regarding the nature of the Force would have gone there. And also that, when he compressed all of that into Jedi and it went by the wayside... Well, I could see "stories left untold" driving him when he wrote the treatments he gave the New Guard when he sold Lucasfilm.
 
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That's the thing. Since so many elements were considered for the story, it's not always easy to pin down exactly when each concept was considered or how developed they were. I suspect there were kernels of each concept likely from very early on, but it's hard to definitively nail each one down. I still would love to pick George's brain and bounce ideas off him.
 
Joek3rr, that's a good summation and serves to reinforce what I've been saying all along. ;) I can fine it down a little more, and remove some of the speculation and uncertainty. It was, indeed, twelve episodes at first, split into two trilogies each for the Obi-Wan and Luke eras. He later fined that down into what you posted above, where it was less "two trilogies" than a more blended saga arc. It's those early notes, including what you posted, that I drew a lot of my inspiration from in my rewrites.

When it went to nine, after Empire, that was around when his marriage to Marcia was ending and he was still grumpy about how little control he had over how Empire turned out. He was starting to sour on the whole thing and you can see that in what Marquand relayed to his interviewer. George was back to trilogies, and had mushed all the prologue/Anakin/Obi-Wan/fall of the Republic stuff to just one trilogy, but still had two full ones planned for Luke.

So at that point, Luke meeting Ben had been bumped from Episode V to IV, Empire was now V, the total number had been trimmed from twelve to nine, Jedi was going to be the rescue of Han, and the final trilogy would deal with the ultimate fate of the Empire and Luke's confrontation with the Emperor. Most of what I rememer about that last bit was that it was going to be in a lava cave deep below the Imperial palace, in the Emperor's place of power, and was described as Manchurian Candidate level psycho-drama mind-games stuff. It is quite possible all George's stuff regarding the nature of the Force would have gone there. And also that, when he compressed all of that into Jedi and it went by the wayside... Well, I could see "stories left untold" driving him when he wrote the treatments he gave the New Guard when he sold Lucasfilm.

So I wonder what George was thinking that the 3rd trilogy was going to be about? Because if recall from RetroBlasting, ROTJ was going to have a false defeat of the Emperor, and Luke wasn't going to fully defeat him until episode 9, and he wasn't going to find his sister until the sequels. But then he kinda crammed that in to ROTJ. So had George decided to chop it down to 6 films total by ROTJ? Or did that decision come later? I ask because I remember seeing an old news report from when ROTJ was released, and it was being called the 3rd film out of a 9 film saga.

Also makes me wonder/hope if we will see some weird trippy stuff in TROS. The cover for The Art of book seems to show lava (Mustafar?) And some strange stuff going on.
 
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Oh hey, look what I just noticed it TheArt of The Last Jedi!
20190930_071741.jpg

Look familiar?
lego-resistance-a-wing-starfighter-001.jpg
 
JJ also said that Khan won’t be the villain in Into Darkness. Not saying he must dislike TLJ just putting it out there.

Exactly what I was going to post. Like someone previously said JJ will lie to Miss direct you, even if your theory is true

He even heavily plays off the audiences theories.. look at lost..
 
So I wonder what George was thinking that the 3rd trilogy was going to be about? Because if recall from RetroBlasting, ROTJ was going to have a false defeat of the Emperor, and Luke wasn't going to fully defeat him until episode 9, and he wasn't going to find his sister until the sequels. But then I he kinda crammed that in to ROTJ. So had George decided to chop it down to 6 films total by ROTJ? Or did that decision come later? I ask because I remember seeing an old news report from when ROTJ was released, and it was being called the 3rd film out of a 9 film saga.

Also makes me wonder/hope if we will see some weird trippy stuff in TROS. The cover for The Art of book seems to show lava (Mustafar?) And some strange stuff going on.

My best guess is that Lucas's initial plan looked something like this based on the information available to us. Though please note that I tried to condense the information chronologically whereas most sources have piecemealed it together which I believe is where a lot of the confusion comes from.

-remake Flash Gordon but with better effects. When he couldn't afford the rights he decided to write his own space adventure series in the same vein.

-he wrote several treatments of the OT (as we know it) was initially conceived though it would undergo heavy revision as each installment was made. The OT, especially A New Hope, went through fully written drafts, and the number of episodes was toyed around with and changed constantly depending on how he felt at any given time. It also would depend on how much money the studio was willing to give him.

- by the time he was into preproduction on Return of the Jedi his marriage to Marcia was crumbling and he'd spread himself too thin trying to build his companies and finish the trilogy, so that he crammed all of his ideas into that film, condensing what could have spread out into many sequels into a single movie.

Feeling he was done with Star Wars he called the story finished in 1983 and basically retired from directing to focus on raising his daughter and continue building said companies.

Nearly 20 years later he rereleases the OT with the special editions, going back "fix" the things that always bothered him about the initial release. During his time revisiting the story with his changes he feels the tech has finally caught up enough to warrant doing the PT and began preproduction in 1996. His suspicions feel warranted that they will be successful when he sees the reactions the public has to the SE success in the theater.

He makes the PT and is finally happy that he no longer has to answer to people who question his vision and not feeling the need to compromise creatively like he did with his first trilogy. Though despite the successes they were at the box office he feels slighted by the fan backlash and once ROTS is released in 2005 he decides to once again retire and call Star Wars finished.

He spends the next few years further tweaking the OT, much to fans dismay, and working on other projects, though many of them aren't the financial successes that Star Wars was.

He becomes bitter at the fans anger towards him and decides to sell his company to Disney in 2012 hoping they will continue his saga with the treatments he sold them as part of the sales agreement.

The other two motivations behind the sale are that the film's he produced in the wake of ROTS underperformed at the box office and with hundreds of employees to take care of he felt Star Wars should continue in order to keep from lay offs or crumbling the company altogether.

The other motivation was personal and he knew he may not live long enough to finish a new Star Wars trilogy which would take up his twilight years and he would never officially retire. Unwilling to make the same mistake he made with his first marraige, he decides to officially retire and sell his company becaue otherwise he would never let go. By then he'd remarried and had a new baby to take care of and wanted to spend the rest of his life enjoying his family as well as pursuing other creative interests without having to be beholden to his own creation.


Inquisitor Peregrinus I defer to any insight you may have, though I think I have the broad strokes of it.
 
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My best guess is that Lucas's initial plan looked something like this based on the information available to us. Though please note that I tried to condense the information chronologically whereas most sources have piecemealed it together which I believe is where a lot of the confusion comes from.

-remake Flash Gordon but with better effects. When he couldn't afford the rights he decided to write his own space adventure series in the same vein.

-he wrote several treatments of the OT (as we know it) was initially conceived though it would undergo heavy revision as each installment was made. The OT, especially A New Hope, went through fully written drafts, and the number of episodes was toyed around with and changed constantly depending on how he felt at any given time. It also would depend on how much money the studio was willing to give him.

- by the time he was into preproduction on Return of the Jedi his marriage to Marcia was crumbling and he'd spread himself too thin trying to build his companies and finish the trilogy, so that he crammed all of his ideas into that film, condensing what could have spread out into many sequels into a single movie.

Feeling he was done with Star Wars he called the story finished in 1983 and basically retired from directing to focus on raising his daughter and continue building said companies.

Nearly 20 years later he rereleases the OT with the special editions, going back "fix" the things that always bothered him about the initial release. During his time revisiting the story with his changes he feels the tech has finally caught up enough to warrant doing the PT and began preproduction in 1996. His suspicions feel warranted that they will be successful when he sees the reactions the public has to the SE success in the theater.

He makes the PT and is finally happy that he no longer has to answer to people who question his vision and not feeling the need to compromise creatively like he did with his first trilogy. Though despite the successes they were at the box office he feels slighted by the fan backlash and once ROTS is released in 2005 he decides to once again retire and call Star Wars finished.

He spends the next few years further tweaking the OT, much to fans dismay, and working on other projects, though many of them aren't the financial successes that Star Wars was.

He becomes bitter at the fans anger towards him and decides to sell his company to Disney in 2012 hoping they will continue his saga with the treatments he sold them as part of the sales agreement.

The other two motivations behind the sale are that the film's he produced in the wake of ROTS underperformed at the box office and with hundreds of employees to take care of he felt Star Wars should continue in order to keep from lay offs or crumbling the company altogether.

The other motivation was personal and he knew he may not live long enough to finish a new Star Wars trilogy which would take up his twilight years and he would never officially retire. Unwilling to make the same mistake he made with his first marraige, he decides to officially retire and sell his company becaue otherwise he would never let go. By then he'd remarried and had a new baby to take care of and wanted to spend the rest of his life enjoying his family as well as pursuing other creative interests without having to be beholden to his own creation.


Inquisitor Peregrinus I defer to any insight you may have, though I think I have the broad strokes of it.

Very well said
 
Man life perspective must be a factor in a lot of people’s thoughts on Luke

I loved Luke in 8... but then I personally felt a connection to someone who feels they screwed up, let a bunch of people down and ended up a curmudgeon who just wants to be left alone.

That's how I see it, too.
 

Girls With Sabers is going to be extatic!

This kind of summarizes a lot of problems I have with JJ style. The cracks are artistic...kind of. And SOOOOO heavy handed. It's the kind of thing that would've got you made fun of in set design class in college. There's ways to be symbolic without sacrificing the common sense of the world. The Empire colors being white, black, and red is a good example. As is Vaders red saber. In the original movie it made enough sense: no point in camo on a space ship and they WOULD like a nice clean look to their uniforms, but it's also symbolic.

In this case, yes the cracks are symbolic, but him repairing his helmet is just silly. He's the head of a group that literally builds planets. Quartermaster wont approve a new helmet? But, common sense doesn't matter because it's ARTISTIC!

I usually don't read these before-the-movie threads for Star Wars because I want to be surprised, but this time I'm definitely glad I've got some advanced warning. I'm going to need the time to prepare myself and prevent eye strain from too much rolling.
 
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