Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Pre-release)

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HeartBlade

Active Member
Palpatine returning (if true) serves 2 essential purposes:
1) gives a big bad which the story needs
2) helps nostalgia

Although shocking, killing Snoke was a terrible idea from a story standpoint. He could remain mysterious (we never learned how Palpatine became emperor in the original trilogy) but terrible from a narrative standpoint. It would be like if in Lord of the Rings, Sauron was suddenly killed by Saruman or one of the wraiths halfway through the two towers.
 

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Psab keel

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
It just makes me laugh because all I can think of is Red Letter Media mocking the fans.

"I remember that! I have to like it because I remember it."

Evoking a feeling for the sake of recognition isn't the same thing as telling a story that evokes feelings because you are moved by the characters or plot.

Not gonna lie. Those TFA trailers were great. It was like running into an old friend you had lost touch with. It was nice chatting for a few minutes and you walk away feeling good remembering how much fun you had growing up together. Then they invite you out to lunch with them (watch the movies) and they start complaining about how awful their life is and you are sadly reminded why you stopped hanging out in the first place.

Now they want to hang out again and you don't know how to politely tell them no because they are such a drag to be around.
 
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Joek3rr

Sr Member
Palpatine returning (if true) serves 2 essential purposes:
1) gives a big bad which the story needs
2) helps nostalgia

Although shocking, killing Snoke was a terrible idea from a story standpoint. He could remain mysterious (we never learned how Palpatine became emperor in the original trilogy) but terrible from a narrative standpoint. It would be like if in Lord of the Rings, Sauron was suddenly killed by Saruman or one of the wraiths halfway through the two towers.
Continuing with a LOTR comparison though. If Palpatine is like Sauron then Snoke is like the Witch King of Angmar. And the Witch King got himself killed.
 

Richard Baker

Sr Member
Snoke seemed to be the adult in the room so to speak- both Hux and Ren are kids thumping their chests. He had the potential of being a fascinating character with an interesting backstory. He seemed to have been injured, had a lot of experience and confidence. We never did learn anything more than a few clues though.
All we have left not is a few angry kids and a new adult is needed, hence Palpatine returns in some form, quite possibly not explained just like Snoke...
 

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cboath

Master Member
Palpatine is THE Phantom Menace. He was there at the start of the Skywalker saga, it's only right that he be at the end. It will make this 3rd trilogy so disjointed from the other two if he isn't in there in some form. Plus it makes him into a devil figure. An evil force that's ever present. Always looking for his next prey.
not quite....

1-6 can be largely seen as a complete story, the rise of the empire and it's eventual defeat. Through nearly 5 hours of sequel flicks, there's nothing at all that ties it to the previous two aside from gratuitously dropping in the OT characters to sell tickets.

Could it be respun? Sure. But it'd take a helluva a writing effort. Substantially better than anything they've done to this point.

I'm not judging palpatine returning - especially since we don't know how. There have been books and comics where a dark presence was trapped in a tomb/building/temple/whatever that was able to possess someone. We also know in the prequels they cloned 100's of thousands of troopers. Who's to say he did pop over and ask for a couple of himself 'just in case'? But i reserve judgement until i see it. However, my initial thought is doing whatever they can to try and appease people and tie it in to the 'skywalker saga' they've been selling since the purchase, but have yet to deliver a single shred of on screen.

As i said before. You can replace all the OT characters they've used in this with new characters and the 7 and 8 do not change at all. Some guy that rescues rey dies, same result. They race to find an old jedi hiding out (someone trained by the guy who was trained by luke 100 years ago), nothing changes, Kylo, is just a twit who worships vader and isn't his grandson, again, nothing changes.
 

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sztriki

Sr Member
Continuing with a LOTR comparison though. If Palpatine is like Sauron then Snoke is like the Witch King of Angmar. And the Witch King got himself killed.
Yea but the Witch King of Angmar was not portrayed as the main baddie who pulls the strings and wants the ring in Fellowship and Two Towers only to say that oh actually there’s this Sauron bloke after he bites it at the Battle of Gondor.
At this point we don’t even know what the relationship is between Palps and Snooker.
i still hope to christ palpatine is nothing more but a hologram or something... i am anti palpatine coming back all day long..
Amen to that. When I was 9 and was making up my own fan fiction sequel it always had to involve a resurrected Darth Vader just cuz I loved him so much but...difference is I was 9.

But to be fair I try and not get into this too much because at this moment we’re only speculating and have no idea what’s going to happen. I know there are plot leaks and whatnot but I still avoid then. Will see. Not holding my breath but if there’s a slim chance that this is going to be decent then why not...
 
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HeartBlade

Active Member
If We use the comparison of Palpatine as Sauron and Snoke as the Wrath King (I guess Kylo is a former human king) it still doesn’t work.

Sauron is dead and the point of the story is the aftermath, the rebuilding. The Wrath King is the big bad and for all intents and purposes, the big evil to kill. He suddenly dies halfway through the story. And then Sauron comes back “somehow” without any foreshadowing.

It’s still bad storytelling.

I think I’m most disappointed with the new trilogy regarding its characters though. Rey and Dinn has so much potential.

Rey - an orphan and if a nobody, how a nobody can fit into a story that is really a family story she has no part of

Finn - arguably the first cowardly character with signs of PTSD. The first scene of TFA was moving because you could just see that he had enough. Made the killing his own comrades in his escape really jarring in comparison though.

Also thought Phasma and Hux could have been really cool characters if they were competent. The bad guys were monopolized by the Sith so having non powerful evil masterminds like Thrawn or a non force user who is still a threat (Boba or Jango) would have been fun to see.
 

Joek3rr

Sr Member
Yea but the Witch King of Angmar was not portrayed as the main baddie who pulls the strings and wants the ring in Fellowship and Two Towers only to say that oh actually there’s this Sauron bloke after he bites it at the Battle of Gondor.
At this point we don’t even know what the relationship is between Palps and Snooker.

Amen to that. When I was 9 and was making up my own fan fiction sequel it always had to involve a resurrected Darth Vader just cuz I loved him so much but...difference is I was 9.

But to be fair I try and not get into this too much because at this moment we’re only speculating and have no idea what’s going to happen. I know there are plot leaks and whatnot but I still avoid then. Will see. Not holding my breath but if there’s a slim chance that this is going to be decent then why not...
I guess I was thinking of the larger story, not just what we see in films.

After the battle of the Dagorlad. Sauron is perceived to be destroyed and the One Ring taken. The Witch King and the other 8 Nazgûl rise to prominence and wage war against the remaining kingdoms. Completely destroying the northern kingdom, Arnor. They are basically preparing Middle-Earth for the return of their master.

I sense that is what's going on with Snoke and the First Order. They are reclaiming the glory of the Empire and paving the way for Palpatine's return.
 

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Egon Spengler

Sr Member
I'm not saying this to bash the film, but it's probably going to be a let down. There's no way they can properly sweep up the mistake of The Last Jedi in one more film. I also hope I'm wrong but I doubt I will be. They'll play it safe, not do anything truely shocking or brave with the characters. Scenes will be mirrors of scenes from previous films, actions wil lbe similar to ones we've already seen. The Last Jedi was all "Kill the past!" but yet the teaser for this final film is 90% clips of the prequels and original trilogy. Not getting my hopes up for this one. No one else should either.
 

Joek3rr

Sr Member
I'm not saying this to bash the film, but it's probably going to be a let down. There's no way they can properly sweep up the mistake of The Last Jedi in one more film. I also hope I'm wrong but I doubt I will be. They'll play it safe, not do anything truely shocking or brave with the characters. Scenes will be mirrors of scenes from previous films, actions wil lbe similar to ones we've already seen. The Last Jedi was all "Kill the past!" but yet the teaser for this final film is 90% clips of the prequels and original trilogy. Not getting my hopes up for this one. No one else should either.
Kill the past was Ben's belief. Not at all the message of the film.
 

Joek3rr

Sr Member
It was his belief but it was solidly built in the film itself.
Except it wasn't. The most prominent message was failure is the greatest teacher. And saving what you love, not fighting what you hate was another. Ben's ideology was to destroy everything from the past. Heck even Luke Skywalker who was certain the Jedi needed to end to stop the cycle of suffering. Says "I will not be the last Jedi."
 

frogfreak

Well-Known Member
Kill the past was Ben's belief. Not at all the message of the film.
EXACTLY!!! Everybody has been complaining about palpatine coming back partially cause I'm the last movie the whole thing was let the past d ie but now they are bringing back palpatine. Well you're right Joek3rr that was only Ben's belief! And I think this could be really good with palpatine coming back cause they needed the biggest, the baddest, the greatest villain they could ever have!
 

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