Star Wars Blu-Rays... Again

Amen, brother. I know there are some people on here(like a certain user with initials who is on my Ignore List) that try to paint having something like the Despecialized Editions as a moral or ethical issue which I find completely laughable. I've bought countless copies of Star Wars on VHS, DVD and Blu-Ray so I have absolutely ZERO guilt about watching Harmy's versions and I will continue to feel that way until films are presented in the way that they were originally shown in theaters. Period.
:D I win again... ignore what you can't accept. (The best part is I have no idea who you are. LOL).

This is huge issue with people today: entitlement. They think they're entitled to something - because they did this, that or another thing. You can try to justify however you'd like to, but that doesn't make it right or acceptable. People with this sort of viewpoint are part of the problem, not a solution - they're spoiled brats who feel they're owed something.

You can chose to ignore the immoral or ethical issues that are readily apparent with this issue. But that doesn't make you any less guilty of hiding your head in the sand.
 
I'm sure JD has tried to make himself feel better by replying directly to my posts even though he's on my Ignore List and I'm sorry to anyone who has to read more of his inane ramblings because of this. I learned a long time ago that there's no point in responding to him so ultimately he just ends up talking to himself and thinking that he has won the debate. Hopefully logical discussion can continue here and his annoying interruptions can be ignored.

Moving on, I'm interested to know among the REASONABLE people here who thinks Harmy's versions are perfectly fine to enjoy and who finds them to be illegal/immoral? I'm just curious as to how the issue breaks down among fellow members.
 
I want a 1964 1/2 Mustang. Ford doesn't make that model anymore. That doesn't entitle me to start making a copies for myself nor can I just start giving those copies away... Ford doesn't care that owned one years ago or that I've had six different Mustangs over the years.

Given all the companies out there that do make replicas of classic cars, there is obviously a way to do that that is not germane to offering alternate edits of films you do not have distribution or creative rights to.

On the flip side, I have the "recasting ethic" argument in the back of my head -- the whole "it's okay if the company/person who made it no longer does and no one else has stepped in to fill the void" part. Still murky moral ground, and I'm not even going to discuss legality, but the vibe is the same: People want the original edits of the Original Trilogy, which were released in theaters, in high-quality home-viewing format (BluRay or 4K or better). Yes the Special Edition v2.1.1 is the official canon version of the story, but all the prior edits were at the time they were released, too, and one of them will always be someone's favorite version of the story, and they're not being made available. So the recaster justification rears its head around this macro-community. And it's hard not to jump at offerings like Harmy's or AdyWan's, because they tend to be better than the official offerings. Just like how people go with one of the fan propmakers over, say, Rubies.

--Jonah
 
I want a 1964 1/2 Mustang. Ford doesn't make that model anymore. That doesn't entitle me to start making a copies for myself nor can I just start giving those copies away... Ford doesn't care that owned one years ago or that I've had six different Mustangs over the years.

I don't think this is a very good analogy.
I'm pretty sure you could build a replica Mustang and no one at Ford would care.
...Unless you started manufacturing them and selling them, and then they might want a piece of the pie.
 
Let's create an escrow account held by a 3rd party. Everyone in the civilized world sends it $39.95 or whatever for their copy of the OOT, and their names are all recorded. LFL gets the money when they deliver the product.


Let's create another escrow account. We all send it $11.95 again every 3rd year, ongoing. Sony only gets the money if they do not release another Spider-Man reboot.
 
Another SW bluray thread, another copyright discussion :lol

I'm sure JD has tried to make himself feel better by replying directly to my posts even though he's on my Ignore List and I'm sorry to anyone who has to read more of his inane ramblings because of this. I learned a long time ago that there's no point in responding to him so ultimately he just ends up talking to himself and thinking that he has won the debate. Hopefully logical discussion can continue here and his annoying interruptions can be ignored.

Moving on, I'm interested to know among the REASONABLE people here who thinks Harmy's versions are perfectly fine to enjoy and who finds them to be illegal/immoral? I'm just curious as to how the issue breaks down among fellow members.

In my experience anyone who ignores with you end up on your ignore list :facepalm
 
#3. He's suggesting a pirated version produced by an amateur without original source material and without consent of the owner and artist is somehow superior.

Oh, but it is. It is SO superior. Why would consent or no consent have anything to do with the quality? And with the comping work, I doubt he's an amateur. Not sure why you're even throwing that around.

My GAWD is it superior. I loved it.

And I clicked on the this thread knowing this thread would just spiral into a piracy discussion, ha. I've bought most of the versions, and have Harmy's, and - if it was ever released online - I would check out Topher Grace's edit as well (as an editor, this REALLY interests me).

As for owning Harmy's version being ethical? Well if you start pulling on that thread, there's a whole hobby that becomes questionable as far as distributing unlicensed versions of properties.

What I'm saying is I think it's absolutely fine.
 
Oh, but it is. It is SO superior. Why would consent or no consent have anything to do with the quality? And with the comping work, I doubt he's an amateur. Not sure why you're even throwing that around.

My GAWD is it superior. I loved it.

And I clicked on the this thread knowing this thread would just spiral into a piracy discussion, ha. I've bought most of the versions, and have Harmy's, and - if it was ever released online - I would check out Topher Grace's edit as well (as an editor, this REALLY interests me).

As for owning Harmy's version being ethical? Well if you start pulling on that thread, there's a whole hobby that becomes questionable as far as distributing unlicensed versions of properties.

What I'm saying is I think it's absolutely fine.

Good points!
 
How do you "prove" to Harmy that you own a copy already? Do you send him a picture of it playing on your tv? A selfie of you holding the dvd case? Surely not store receipts--has anyone ever kept a receipt for a dvd after they played it?
 
How do you "prove" to Harmy that you own a copy already? Do you send him a picture of it playing on your tv? A selfie of you holding the dvd case? Surely not store receipts--has anyone ever kept a receipt for a dvd after they played it?

I don't remember exactly. I just remember he responded to my email and said he needed proof I owned the bluerays or he wouldn't send me a DVD.
I didn't have the bluerays, so no Harmy's Despecialized for me :(
 
Moving on, I'm interested to know among the REASONABLE people here who thinks Harmy's versions are perfectly fine to enjoy and who finds them to be illegal/immoral? I'm just curious as to how the issue breaks down among fellow members.

Right here. I agree 100% with JD. I'm not a fan of moral equivocation or relativism. It either is or it isn't. I don't begrudge Harmy from doing what he does but I do find his distribution of that material to be copyright infringement.
 
I guess I just don't see the difference between HArmy's versions and most unlicensed prop replicas...

You've got watching the blu-rays and thinking "I want to see Star Wars the way it was!"... Then a guy like Harmy takes all the versions, clips from some retouches others... recolors... recreates... and then hands out a pretty great version of something not readily available...

Then you have someone who watches the Blu-rays, wants a specific lightsaber, which isn't readily accessible, OR accurate enough, so someone takes reference from those discs and elsewhere, works out all the dimensions, has the saber machined, and then sells it... without a license to do so....

People don't get up in arms about that...

How is it different? I don't get it. I'm sure there are many who will ONLY buy licensed props for this very reason, but I haven't met any, heh.

I feel the same about art print runs... There are guys selling unlicensed prints for Star Wars... Mad Max etc.. no one brings down the hammer.
 
When it comes to discussions like this, it's really, really important to remember that legality and morality are two separate issues, even though they often overlap.

Harmy's OOT D-SE is, unquestionably, copyright infringement. I don't think that you could raise a credible fair use defense to avoid trouble. It basically survives because LFL/Disney...doesn't care enough at this point to try to shut it down. (Which, side note, should tip people off to the fact that they aren't planning on releasing their own "competing" version any time soon.) It's not even really a matter of opinion. He's making and distributing copies of a copyrighted work without a license, and he's not doing it in a way that falls within the protection of the fair use defense, under the law.

In other words, he's driving 80mph in a 65mph zone. He's speeding. It's not open for debate, really.

Personally, I think the morality debate is kind of silly, because nobody is going to convince anyone on the opposite side of the fence anyway. Anyone downloading Harmy's stuff already either thinks they're justified/not morally in the wrong, or they just don't really care. But the notion that we're debating whether it is or isn't legal...I mean, that's like saying driving 80 in a 65 zone is legal. It isn't. Maybe your wife is in labor and you're speeding to get her to the hospital. Maybe all of traffic was moving that fast anyway, so you stayed fast to be safer. But let's be clear: if you're doing 80 in a 65 zone, you're speeding, regardless of whatever reason you have to do so. Same deal with the Harmy stuff. It's infringement. Maybe you don't care. Maybe you think you're entitled to do so. Maybe you want to flip Uncle George the finger for ruining your childhood. Whatever. But it's still infringement.



Oh, and since we're likely to head into this area next, here's a quick pre-emptive recap:

LFL/Disney isn't going to release an OOT version on blu-ray yet for probably the next five to ten years, if they release one at all. Fox owns the distro rights to the movies, and ESB and ROTJ won't lapse on those rights for a few more years, while ANH is perpetually Fox's. Meanwhile, personally owned home media is a dying industry, so LFL/Disney may simply decide to not release disc versions, and only do digital if they do anything at all.

Those of us who are fans of the OOT are a niche market, as evidenced by the fact that no one is actually courting us. If there was sufficient demand, Disney would've made this happen yesterday. But they don't think there is. This is, again, why they aren't targeting Harmy anyway, because, really, who cares? They probably figure the losses are insignificant, and half the people downloading the stuff already bought everything anyway.


So, yeah, it sucks that they aren't releasing it, but hey, that's life. If you want to view the OOT, there are options available. There aren't any legal ones, though, so, you know, caveat cleptor.

- - - Updated - - -

I guess I just don't see the difference between HArmy's versions and most unlicensed prop replicas...

You've got watching the blu-rays and thinking "I want to see Star Wars the way it was!"... Then a guy like Harmy takes all the versions, clips from some retouches others... recolors... recreates... and then hands out a pretty great version of something not readily available...

Then you have someone who watches the Blu-rays, wants a specific lightsaber, which isn't readily accessible, OR accurate enough, so someone takes reference from those discs and elsewhere, works out all the dimensions, has the saber machined, and then sells it... without a license to do so....

People don't get up in arms about that...

How is it different? I don't get it. I'm sure there are many who will ONLY buy licensed props for this very reason, but I haven't met any, heh.

I feel the same about art print runs... There are guys selling unlicensed prints for Star Wars... Mad Max etc.. no one brings down the hammer.

Legally, there isn't any difference.
 
I should state that I don't see any legal difference... they are both just as illegal.

What I take issue with is anyone pointing their fingers at others for piracy, but have no issues with other things that, as far as I'm considered, still fall under piracy.

My boss won't borrow my flashdrive with "Rick and Morty" on it because it's "Piracy" (we don't get the channel that airs it in Canada), but she has bought fan made prop replicas...

oookay.
 
I don't think this is a very good analogy.
I'm pretty sure you could build a replica Mustang and no one at Ford would care.
...Unless you started manufacturing them and selling them, and then they might want a piece of the pie.
That's the point - you're taking it, manufacturing and NOT selling it -- you're giving it away.
 
I guess I just don't see the difference between HArmy's versions and most unlicensed prop replicas...

You've got watching the blu-rays and thinking "I want to see Star Wars the way it was!"... Then a guy like Harmy takes all the versions, clips from some retouches others... recolors... recreates... and then hands out a pretty great version of something not readily available...
But, it's not the original... it's not the "way it was" it's still very much an idealized version of it. Do you want Star Wars the way it was - or do you want it the way an outsider has decided he should "fix" it? Retouching, recoloring, recreating is not "SW the way it was."

Then you have someone who watches the Blu-rays, wants a specific lightsaber, which isn't readily accessible, OR accurate enough, so someone takes reference from those discs and elsewhere, works out all the dimensions, has the saber machined, and then sells it... without a license to do so....

People don't get up in arms about that...

How is it different? I don't get it. I'm sure there are many who will ONLY buy licensed props for this very reason, but I haven't met any, heh.
The difference here - at least one way to look at it is that generally, folks aren't taking the licensed props and making copies (recasting or whatever) of them and giving them away. There are a few recasters and folks selling that have gotten bitten.
 
I'm always standing with my card ready saying, "Take my money, Lucasfilm! I am ready to buy a copy of your OOT Blur-Rays! Give them to me I have your money RIGHT HERE!!"

And then they just stand there, "Don't care. Go away"

It's not a lack of willingness to buy one, but that they just won't make it available for us to having the option to buy!

From a legal standpoint I get it. I just don't get why they sit on something that would be almost free money.
 
I

You've got watching the blu-rays and thinking "I want to see Star Wars the way it was!"... Then a guy like Harmy takes all the versions, clips from some retouches others... recolors... recreates... and then hands out a pretty great version of something not readily available...


I agree with pretty much everything you've posted in this thread(especially how you compare this debate to unlicensed prop replicas), but I think it should be pointed out that Harmy doesn't recreate anything....that is more in line with what Adywan does with the Revisited films. What Harmy does is take the best possible sources of the OT and remove all the Special Edition nonsense that Uncle George added in. With regards to color, he restores it exactly to how the films looked in the theater rather than the botched job done by Lowry Digital on the DVDs in 2004.
 
But, it's not the original... it's not the "way it was" it's still very much an idealized version of it. Do you want Star Wars the way it was - or do you want it the way an outsider has decided he should "fix" it? Retouching, recoloring, recreating is not "SW the way it was."
.

He's fixing a crap coloring job on the new ones that doesn't even come close to matching the original. Even watching the little "making of" vid can clear that up a bit. I'm just happy to see the CG crap gone, the old matte paintings back, and of course NO HAYDEN

And that outsider (with help form insiders, apparently) fix is FAR better and closer to "The way it was" than the blu rays I bought a couple years back. It was angering. Man they are hard to watch.

If I wanted water and someone offered me Coke or Soda Water, I'll take the Soda Water... may not be exact, but it's a helluva lot cleaner and filled with less garbage than Cola.

(this post brought to you as go to get my water from the fridge and realize I only have soda water or coke, heh)
 
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