A New Star Wars Trilogy Announced

[batguy]

I always hand-waved Qui-Gon's lines there as an interpretation. "A certain point of view." He was telling a little kid to focus inwardly and be open to some basic meditation stuff.


Testosterone is necessary for life too. It has specific effects on people's reasoning and motive and moods. But we don't think the stuff is conscious.


IMO midichlorians have gotten way too much of the SW fanbase's attention (and frustration) in the last 25 years. I think it's easy enough to interpret them as a microorganism that responds to the Force in a way that's measurable. If George intended for MCs to be much more than that in 1999, then he messed up. Big deal. It woudn't be the first time.

Human consciousness is not understood very well at all by modern science. People have strong feelings about far-out concepts like souls. But we can still hook a person up to simple electrical equipment and measure brain activity.

 

[CB2001]

I always hand-waved Qui-Gon's lines there as an interpretation. "A certain point of view." He was telling a little kid to focus inwardly and be open to some basic meditation stuff.

IIRC from the junior novelization, he was basically telling Anakin to use The Force, though he was telling him in a different way because Anakin didn't know what the Force was (as he only knew it as his reflexes and gut instinct when podracing).

 

[batguy]

IIRC from the junior novelization, he was basically telling Anakin to use The Force, though he was telling him in a different way because Anakin didn't know what the Force was (as he only knew it as his reflexes and gut instinct when podracing).

That's what I'm getting at. He gave Anakin an overly literal explanation. A 'mechanical' one. That's how you might explain something to a kid who built his own pod racer.


When in doubt about a SW issue, think like a filmmaker (instead of a world-builder).

Q. What would Ep#1 be like without midichlorians?

A. Qui-Gon spends most of the movie risking everything and planning his future around a random little slave brat on a backwoods planet. Why? "The Force is strong with this one" doesn't seem to cut it here. For the plotline to make sense, the Jedis need to figure out that Anakin is stupid-powerful right off the bat. But Anakin shouldn't be DOING anything to show off his Yoda-level powers before he gets any training at all (because he's not Rey).

During the writing stage George probably thought "Dangit, I wish Qui-Gon could just put a Force-thermometer on this kid and settle the issue early . . . Hey wait, this is a hyper-advanced society! Maybe they DO have some method of knowing! It wasn't necessary in the OT because Ben & Yoda always knew who Luke was. So I could invent something now . . . hmm, but it takes the magic out of the Force if they can just measure it that easily. Maybe it could be an indirect measure" . . .

. . . and that's probably how Midichlorians got into SW.

 

[cboath]

That's what I'm getting at. He gave Anakin an overly literal explanation. A 'mechanical' one. That's how you might explain something to a kid who built his own pod racer.


When in doubt about a SW issue, think like a filmmaker (instead of a world-builder).

Q. What would Ep#1 be like without midichlorians?

A. Qui-Gon spends most of the movie risking everything and planning his future around a random little slave brat on a backwoods planet. Why? "The Force is strong with this one" doesn't seem to cut it here. For the plotline to make sense, the Jedis need to figure out that Anakin is stupid-powerful right off the bat. But Anakin shouldn't be DOING anything to show off his Yoda-level powers before he gets any training at all (because he's not Rey).

During the writing stage George probably thought "Dangit, I wish Qui-Gon could just put a Force-thermometer on this kid and settle the issue early . . . Hey wait, this is a hyper-advanced society! Maybe they DO have some method of knowing! It wasn't necessary in the OT because Ben & Yoda always knew who Luke was. So I could invent something now . . . hmm, but it takes the magic out of the Force if they can just measure it that easily. Maybe it could be an indirect measure" . . .

. . . and that's probably how Midichlorians got into SW.

Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

And, honestly, it's not taking the magic out. It's still a random outcome of the universe if you have the ability to use them or not. Plus, a high count would me high potential, not that you'll be especially good at it. The ole, $1M dollar talen, 10 cent head axiom.

In 1500 hundred, i'm sure birds flying in the sky seemed magical to an extent, too. With knowledge we learned how to fly ourselves and can fly around the world, have sent people to the moon and probes out of the solar system. It's entirely possible to have learned something as a society and then forget it completely. Especially if you have someone going out to destroy every record that it existed.

 

[The Terminator]

I always hand-waved Qui-Gon's lines there as an interpretation. "A certain point of view." He was telling a little kid to focus inwardly and be open to some basic meditation stuff.


Testosterone is necessary for life too. It has specific effects on people's reasoning and motive and moods. But we don't think the stuff is conscious.


IMO midichlorians have gotten way too much of the SW fanbase's attention (and frustration) in the last 25 years. I think it's easy enough to interpret them as a microorganism that responds to the Force in a way that's measurable. If George intended for MCs to be much more than that in 1999, then he messed up. Big deal. It woudn't be the first time.

Human consciousness is not understood very well at all by modern science. People have strong feelings about far-out concepts like souls. But we can still hook a person up to simple electrical equipment and measure brain activity.

Like acetylsalicylic acid, we know it works, we take it and pain goes away, but we don't know why it works the way it does. It's also known as Aspirin by the way

 

[blewis17]

Human consciousness is not understood very well at all by modern science. People have strong feelings about far-out concepts like souls. But we can still hook a person up to simple electrical equipment and measure brain activity.

From a strictly scientific point of view, consciousness is though to be an "emergent property" of complex biological systems.
...But that really explains nothing.

 

[blewis17]

That's what I'm getting at. He gave Anakin an overly literal explanation. A 'mechanical' one. That's how you might explain something to a kid who built his own pod racer.


When in doubt about a SW issue, think like a filmmaker (instead of a world-builder).

Q. What would Ep#1 be like without midichlorians?

A. Qui-Gon spends most of the movie risking everything and planning his future around a random little slave brat on a backwoods planet. Why? "The Force is strong with this one" doesn't seem to cut it here. For the plotline to make sense, the Jedis need to figure out that Anakin is stupid-powerful right off the bat. But Anakin shouldn't be DOING anything to show off his Yoda-level powers before he gets any training at all (because he's not Rey).

During the writing stage George probably thought "Dangit, I wish Qui-Gon could just put a Force-thermometer on this kid and settle the issue early . . . Hey wait, this is a hyper-advanced society! Maybe they DO have some method of knowing! It wasn't necessary in the OT because Ben & Yoda always knew who Luke was. So I could invent something now . . . hmm, but it takes the magic out of the Force if they can just measure it that easily. Maybe it could be an indirect measure" . . .

. . . and that's probably how Midichlorians got into SW.

It's as good of an explanation as any.

 

[James Kenobi 1138]

If you hated the SW sequels, I hear you, I respect you, I agree not every movie will be someone’s ’cup of tea’, I will never tell you that you are wrong for your opinions or feelings, and I will never stop being your friend because you dislike something that I enjoy.

With that said, if you watched all 3 SW sequel movies and were disappointed and didn’t like them, I encourage you to take 20 minutes and watch this video. Not because I want to change your mind, but because despite many failings and miss opportunities I do think many points in this video are valid and worth consideration. Again, not to change your mind, but to reframe some of the how/why of the ST.

 

[drusselmeyer]

The problems in SW are not that difficult to unravel and repair.

For one example: "somehow Palpatine returns" this in not difficult. Solution: Palpatine doesn't appear anywhere in RJ. With the concept of clones already well established, Palpatine sends his clone to command the Deathstar. The real Palpatine never died. The one defeated in Skywalker was also a clone. Palpatine is still in control. Problem solved.

These kinds of solutions are an easy fix if you just get the right person to solve them.

I know I can think this through, why doesn't anyone else do this?

 

[greenmachines]

The problems in SW are not that difficult to unravel and repair.

For one example: "somehow Palpatine returns" this in not difficult. Solution: Palpatine doesn't appear anywhere in RJ. With the concept of clones already well established, Palpatine sends his clone to command the Deathstar. The real Palpatine never died. The one defeated in Skywalker was also a clone. Palpatine is still in control. Problem solved.

These kinds of solutions are an easy fix if you just get the right person to solve them.

I know I can think this through, why doesn't anyone else do this?

I think the Saboath/C'baoth line from Zahn covers that well. The phonetic spelling has an ancient root word association to "host" or "hosts". A clone of a powerful jedi master.

 

[Wakeem]

All I know is two professional companies made 6 movies that I'll never watch in full again. Possibly 7 with the Han Solo movie that I want to watch one more time just in case. And I haven't seen The Clone Wars cartoon movie that I think was released in theaters. I'm not sure that should count since it's not live action. So 7 movies that I won't watch in full. 9 if you add in the two Indiana Jones movies. That is a very difficult task to accomplish but somehow they did it.

It's very possible that the people in charge don't have it in them to create a good Star Wars movie let alone a new trilogy.

 

[Astyanax]

The problems in SW are not that difficult to unravel and repair.

For one example: "somehow Palpatine returns" this in not difficult. Solution: Palpatine doesn't appear anywhere in RJ. With the concept of clones already well established, Palpatine sends his clone to command the Deathstar. The real Palpatine never died. The one defeated in Skywalker was also a clone. Palpatine is still in control. Problem solved.

These kinds of solutions are an easy fix if you just get the right person to solve them.

I know I can think this through, why doesn't anyone else do this?

I really don't feel that retconning ROTJ is the right approach here. If anything, it cheapens the sacrifices and alters the stakes for that film.

 

[greenmachines]

I really don't feel that retconning ROTJ is the right approach here. If anything, it cheapens the sacrifices and alters the stakes for that film.

Me, over here mumbling, nearly incoherently,...just hire zahn....just hire zahn. maybe get Kevin j anderson too.... just zahn and maybe anderson....ya, if they would just....

 

[batguy]

I really don't feel that retconning ROTJ is the right approach here. If anything, it cheapens the sacrifices and alters the stakes for that film.

Agreed.

It doesn't matter how it's explained. The problem is not technical, it's thematic. Character arc. Etc.

The ROTJ throne room needs to be the end of Palpatine. Any way of bringing him back later is just tearing a chunk off the OT to patch the ST.

 

[drusselmeyer]

F zahn. He's a hack!

Anyway...

It's not a retcon, it's a reveal.

This is not the only solution, nor is it the best, but it is far better than what we got.

 

[TimDRX]

It's the dictionary definition of a retcon - retroactive continuity; a later addition to a story alters key information about it. Saying Palps survived or was a clone the whole time is by definition a retcon.

It's also just bad storytelling! It's such a dead end for the franchise. If Palps has to be the ultimate antagonist for the whole "saga" or whatever, then now what? Why care about any future installments or new antagonists, why believe they're ever defeated?

I dunno, I think I was checked out as soon as I saw Kylo Ren had kintsugi'd his helmet back together. That's just such a perfect encapsulation of everything that went wrong with Episode IX - take an interesting bit of character development and a great launching off point for a new direction for the story to go and just... undo it for a cool visual.

 

[drusselmeyer]

First of all, fiction writing is poorly taught in the first place.

The protagonist is the character that drives the story. The protagonist will stop at nothing to get what he wants.

This is how it has been taught in schools and scriptwriting courses for a very long time.

Does this sound like the definition of a hero to anyone?

Here's the surprise reveal: Darth Vader was the protagonist of Star Wars. Luke was everyone's sidekick and Leia was the actual heroine of the story. The truth is often a surprise. The hero is almost never the protagonist and the villain is almost never the antagonist.

And that definition of a retcon retcons the retcon definition. A retcon has always meant rewriting the history with details altered. It's something that the old serials did. -The episode ends with the hero plunging to his death going over the cliff in a flaming wagon. The following week the episode begins as the hero leaps from the wagon and lands safely on the ground. That's a retcon.

Revealing a hidden secret has never been a retcon.

 

[blewis17]

The problems in SW are not that difficult to unravel and repair.

For one example: "somehow Palpatine returns" this in not difficult. Solution: Palpatine doesn't appear anywhere in RJ. With the concept of clones already well established, Palpatine sends his clone to command the Deathstar. The real Palpatine never died. The one defeated in Skywalker was also a clone. Palpatine is still in control. Problem solved.

These kinds of solutions are an easy fix if you just get the right person to solve them.

I know I can think this through, why doesn't anyone else do this?

Yep, they should have Wizard of Oz'd that mess. You never saw the "real" Palpatine, the man behind the curtain, until TROS...

...and it would have helped to explain why the Jedi were so blind to Senator/Chancellor Palpatine's true nature during the prequel trilogy. Because they were dealing with a clone, who was being manipulated behind the scenes.

Nut as a life liong SW fan (since 1977), I REALLY feel that LucasFilm/Disney needs to let SW rest for a few years. Expand Galaxy's Edge at the Disney parks. Keep the comic and books out in the market, but back off on the TV and films for a few years.

 

[TimDRX]

Not to be rude or anything but you're uh, entirely incorrect about all of that lol

Retroactive continuity - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

By your definition, Sherlock's survival of the fall at Reichenbach isn't a retcon because the later stories "reveal a secret" of how he didn't in fact die? Even though that's the specific example they use for exactly what a retcon is?

What you're describing with the lack of continuity in old serials is even given as an example of what a retcon isn't.

 

[blewis17]

It's very possible that the people in charge don't have it in them to create a good Star Wars movie let alone a new trilogy.

This. You sir, win the Internet for the day!