Star Trek: Strange New Worlds

asalaw

Sr Member
Didn't you know that in Season Two of Strange New Hair, we meet the dreaded new enemy called the Ad Hominem? :p

And in all fairness to the Gorn of SNW, Aliens did riff off of Star Trek first...

After all, that movie had the actress SiGORNey Weaver.
Me: Well, as I’ve said often enough, some people take it as a personal attack and get all upset if you criticize something they love, even when it’s objectively crap. Life’s too short to care what such people think, especially since they do little enough of it. Hence the ignore button, one of RPF’s best features and definitely a civilizing force.

Also me: Hands off Sigourney! Aliens 3 and 4 NEVER HAPPENED!

83263E8A-9841-4F58-8E0F-B6FA9AE692B0.jpeg
 

Lightning

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
My guess seems to be sort of close, synopsis reveals that
Pike is visited by his future self, who tells him what happens if he tries to avert the future
 

Lightning

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
How will that work? One flash for yes, two for no, one thousand eight hundred and forty two for, ‘Are you out of your freaking mind’?

No, the future Pike would be uninjured because present Pike is going to change things so he avoids the accident. (At least until future Pike convinces him the chair future is better then the alternative).
 

Gregatron

Master Member
Me: Well, as I’ve said often enough, some people take it as a personal attack and get all upset if you criticize something they love, even when it’s objectively crap. Life’s too short to care what such people think, especially since they do little enough of it. Hence the ignore button, one of RPF’s best features and definitely a civilizing force.

Also me: Hands off Sigourney! Aliens 3 and 4 NEVER HAPPENED!

View attachment 1594790

Yeah, that sounds about right. Same with all of Disney STAR WARS and TREK post-2009. Although I'd also be happy to pretend ENTERPRISE never happened, too, because it largely sucks as a TOS prequel. As a TNG prequel, sure, but...
 
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robn1

Master Member
Which "facts" are those? That the writers are "completely inept", sounds like an opinion not a fact. Is it saying that Sam Kirk is Kirk's father, very much not a fact? Or is it that to like the show means you're an apologist, another opinion. Where are these facts?
The writing speaks for itself, you either recognize it's bad or you don't. I never called anyone an apologist, I simply mentioned that they are out there. As for Kirk's brother his appearance in this period is canon breaking, you can't argue against that fact so you cling to someone's obvious mistyped "father".

Several of us went on for pages about how the gorn episodes break canon all over the place. No counter argument from you, no attempt to engage in discussion, just more attacks.
 

Gregatron

Master Member
The writing speaks for itself, you either recognize it's bad or you don't. I never called anyone an apologist, I simply mentioned that they are out there. As for Kirk's brother his appearance in this period is canon breaking, you can't argue against that fact so you cling to someone's obvious mistyped "father".

Several of us went on for pages about how the gorn episodes break canon all over the place. No counter argument from you, no attempt to engage in discussion, just more attacks.

...which is exactly the "fanbase" that these franchises now cultivate. Blindly loyal "consumers" who are highly emotional, and will defend anything with the brand stamped on it, like good little soldiers.
 

asalaw

Sr Member
The writing speaks for itself, you either recognize it's bad or you don't. I never called anyone an apologist, I simply mentioned that they are out there. As for Kirk's brother his appearance in this period is canon breaking, you can't argue against that fact so you cling to someone's obvious mistyped "father".

Several of us went on for pages about how the gorn episodes break canon all over the place. No counter argument from you, no attempt to engage in discussion, just more attacks.
Not only is Sam canon-breaking, but they’ve done f***-all with his character. It’s as if they introduced him solely to break canon. He’s been completely useless throughout, only appearing in two episodes for more than a second, and looking like an idiot both times. WTF was the point?

I wouldn’t mind retconning so much if they did it well, for a good story reason that makes sense, and were really creative with it. If they could introduce something new and make it look as though it had been there all along, that could be a lot of fun. And more to the point, it would show respect for the fans who’ve stuck with the franchise for so many years, winning them over instead of alienating them and even (in the case of Disney) going to war with them.

But this new crop of “creatives” (and I use the term very loosely) just don’t have the chops to pull that off. So they throw out the rear view mirror, do whatever lazy-ass thing they want to, and have their PR people and social media shills blow a lot of fan-service smoke over it. A lot of people fall for that, but I can’t help but see the man behind the curtain. And he’s a charlatan.
 

Picard102

Sr Member
The writing speaks for itself, you either recognize it's bad or you don't.
That's an opinion, not a fact.

As for Kirk's brother his appearance in this period is canon breaking,
Another opinion.

Several of us went on for pages about how the gorn episodes break canon all over the place.
Ya, I don't care if it breaks that canon. It's not a significant break, and isn't incongruent with Star Trek's history of retconning throw away story beats. So complain about it all you want.
 

Gregatron

Master Member
Not only is Sam canon-breaking, but they’ve done f***-all with his character. It’s as if they introduced him solely to break canon. He’s been completely useless throughout, only appearing in two episodes for more than a second, and looking like an idiot both times. WTF was the point?

'memba this? is the reason. Nostalgia key-jangling is the reason. Slap on familiar names to make this all seem legitimate.
 

robn1

Master Member
Ya, I don't care if it breaks that canon. It's not a significant break, and isn't incongruent with Star Trek's history of retconning throw away story beats.
You've brought up my "apologist" post a number of times, which honestly was not directed at you or anyone in this thread. But then you make this post, which seems plucked from many of the shill media types I was referring to.

*edit to add* This is engagement in discussion, so kudos for that.
 
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asalaw

Sr Member
'memba this? is the reason. Nostalgia key-jangling is the reason. Slap on familiar names to make this all seem legitimate.
Well, that’s the whole series writ large. The props seem to echo the originals, but ruin the aesthetics. The sets kinda riff on the originals, but have that Macy’s cosmetic counter look that just doesn’t feel like a working military vessel. Sam and Number One show up, but aren’t used in any stories. As I said when I saw the first trailer, it’s just the trappings, visual lip service paid to what came before, but no real reverence for the truly creative people whose shoulders they stand on.

And BTW, I haven’t mentioned this before, but I’ve realized what bothers me about Pike. He’s not a ship’s captain, he’s some kind of p***y youth pastor. Every other captain we’ve seen in the original and the spinoffs, from Kirk through Captain Hair and even Archer, exuded gravitas and authority. Pike just sort of oozes empathy, like a hippy therapist. I wouldn’t follow him into a lunch line, let alone a battle.
 

Gregatron

Master Member
Well, that’s the whole series writ large. The props seem to echo the originals, but ruin the aesthetics. The sets kinda riff on the originals, but have that Macy’s cosmetic counter look that just doesn’t feel like a working military vessel. Sam and Number One show up, but aren’t used in any stories. As I said when I saw the first trailer, it’s just the trappings, visual lip service paid to what came before, but no real reverence for the truly creative people whose shoulders they stand on.

And BTW, I haven’t mentioned this before, but I’ve realized what bothers me about Pike. He’s not a ship’s captain, he’s some kind of p***y youth pastor. Every other captain we’ve seen in the original and the spinoffs, from Kirk through Captain Hair and even Archer, exuded gravitas and authority. Pike just sort of oozes empathy, like a hippy therapist. I wouldn’t follow him into a lunch line, let alone a battle.

A point made many times during the old shows was that the burden of command is heavy, and that a Captain must project an image of confidence and authority to maintain discipline and respect.

As Commodore Stone told Kirk, "Not one man in a million could do what you and I have done: Command a Starship.".
 

asalaw

Sr Member
A point made many times during the old shows was that the burden of command is heavy, and that a Captain must project an image of confidence and authority to maintain discipline and respect.

As Commodore Stone told Kirk, "Not one man in a million could do what you and I have done: Command a Starship.".
Arguably starting in the very first regular episode they shot, Corbomite Maneuver, when Kirk relieves Bailey, then again in Enemy Within, then again later in Balance of Terror, and so on. Spock does it in Galileo Seven (for better and worse) and Gamesters of Triskelion. The only time Kirk defers to others on a major decision is in Return to Tomorrow, because unanimous buy-in is strictly necessary under unique circumstances. He never plays ship’s counselor.

It wasn’t perfectly maintained throughout the series, as the writing was really uneven—he’s way too gentle with Marla McGivers in Space Seed (an episode I loathe mostly because of her awful character), for example—but the vast majority of the time, we know damn well who’s in command.
 

Gregatron

Master Member
Arguably starting in the very first regular episode they shot, Corbomite Maneuver, when Kirk relieves Bailey, then again in Enemy Within, then again later in Balance of Terror, and so on. Spock does it in Galileo Seven (for better and worse) and Gamesters of Triskelion. The only time Kirk defers to others on a major decision is in Return to Tomorrow, because unanimous buy-in is strictly necessary under unique circumstances. He never plays ship’s counselor.

It wasn’t perfectly maintained throughout the series, as the writing was really uneven—he’s way too gentle with Marla McGivers in Space Seed (an episode I loathe mostly because of her awful character), for example—but the vast majority of the time, we know damn well who’s in command.

Yeah, you've previously mentioned your dislike of "Space Seed". It's actually one of my favorites, but we can actually...agree to disagree like rational adults. Funny, that! It's not so hard!

Anyway, I find it interesting that Kirk didn't even have a Ready Room in TOS. Sure, he used the office portion of his quarters for the occasional meeting, but he by and large maintained discipline right out there on-deck.
 

asalaw

Sr Member
Yeah, you've previously mentioned your dislike of "Space Seed". It's actually one of my favorites, but we can actually...agree to disagree like rational adults. Funny, that! It's not so hard!
It helps a lot that your self-worth doesn’t hinge on whether other people share your taste in entertainment. Shame others don’t choose to profit by your example… ;)

Anyway, I find it interesting that Kirk didn't even have a Ready Room in TOS. Sure, he used the office portion of his quarters for the occasional meeting, but he by and large maintained discipline right out there on-deck.
Yeah, every commander needs some kind of office, and when I walked into the TNG ready room, I have to admit I felt a thrill, as even by then a lot of great scenes had happened there. Not as big a thrill as when I stepped through the next door onto the bridge, though…

As for TOS, I’ve come to believe lately that if I had my druthers, I’d completely scrap the exposition room the briefing room on TOS. There’s gotta be a better way to weave that stuff into a story than having everybody sit around a table and yak about it.

Jimmy Smits once gave me a tour of the LA Law sets on the Fox lot, and when we got to the conference room, he was very clear that everybody hated shooting those scenes, because they took forever to cover. All those characters around a table, and you have to shoot coverage of everybody, and every time the camera turns around to cover someone else it’s a re-light. I feel like it’s a metaphor for what those scenes do to the story—let’s all stop moving forward and just make long speeches while sitting still.

It gets so tedious, desperate hack writers do all sorts of cornball crap to try to liven it up, like have Pike cook an omelette and have Spock wash dishes in a desperate attempt to distract from the fact that we’re basically reading a grocery list on camera.
 

Gregatron

Master Member
It helps a lot that your self-worth doesn’t hinge on whether other people share your taste in entertainment. Shame others don’t choose to profit by your example… ;)


Yeah, every commander needs some kind of office, and when I walked into the TNG ready room, I have to admit I felt a thrill, as even by then a lot of great scenes had happened there. Not as big a thrill as when I stepped through the next door onto the bridge, though…

As for TOS, I’ve come to believe lately that if I had my druthers, I’d completely scrap the exposition room the briefing room on TOS. There’s gotta be a better way to weave that stuff into a story than having everybody sit around a table and yak about it.

Jimmy Smits once gave me a tour of the LA Law sets on the Fox lot, and when we got to the conference room, he was very clear that everybody hated shooting those scenes, because they took forever to cover. All those characters around a table, and you have to shoot coverage of everybody, and every time the camera turns around to cover someone else it’s a re-light. I feel like it’s a metaphor for what those scenes do to the story—let’s all stop moving forward and just make long speeches while sitting still.

It gets so tedious, desperate hack writers do all sorts of cornball crap to try to liven it up, like have Pike cook an omelette and have Spock wash dishes in a desperate attempt to distract from the fact that we’re basically reading a grocery list on camera.

Yes, Nick Meyer complained about that 180-degree coverage on the Bridge during his DVD commentaries for the movies.

And, of course, TNG's observation lounge served the same purpose as TOS' briefing room.
 

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