Lightning
Master Member
Oh, shoot. And I even checked the transcript and missed it.
Star Trek: Strange New Worlds
- Thread starter Noeland
- Start date
Oh, shoot. And I even checked the transcript and missed it.
As I said awhile back, they’re going to keep taking “firsts” away from Kirk and TOS. First contact with the Gorn, first contact with the Mirror Universe, (probably) first contact with Khan, etc. ENTERPRISE was guilty of this, too, since they featured first contact (even if the NX-01 crew didn’t realize it) with the Borg, the Ferengi, and the Organians.
As Robert Meyer Burnett has astutely noted, these new shows are just about STAR TREK. That is, they’re excessively self-referential. Following up, retconning, or tearing down things we already know about, often in nonsensical ways.
The norm for TOS was self-contained stories, most often featuring encounters with planets, races, or beings never before encountered. That’s literally the point of the Enterprise’s mission. Sure, there were episodes where they checked up on colonies, or investigated reports of missing starships, but it was primarily about running into total unknowns like the First Federation, Trelane, the Metrons, the Organians, Nomad, V’Ger, etc.
Last edited:
Ooh! Ooh! I know! She doesn’t count because she’s descended from Augments (…and I hate that retronym)! Therefore, she’s not technically a normal human!
Works perfectly! Just like everyone being sworn to secrecy about Discovery and Mikey Spock! Continuity fixed! What genius writing!
Lightning
Master Member
It is a deliberate continuity violation. But it's the logical choice for the TV show they are making. Mild melding is a major part of Spock's "power set". Taking it off the table because of a line of dialogue, not even a real plot point, just isn't the right choice from a dramatic perspective. In the decade before Dagger of the Mind, Spock was never in a situation that called for a mind meld with a human? And then suddenly it comes up once evey few months?
I've made peace with the fact that TOS continuity is getting "massaged". I wasn't happy about it at first, but I can live with it. Acceping it now will make the Paul Wesley as Kirk series they are almost certanly making in a few years much more enjoyable.
Cephus
Master Member
Of course they are because they can't be original. Everything they've done for years has been "let's copy TOS or TNG and take credit ourselves!" Modern day Hollywood writers completely lack originality. That's why they spend so much time doing sequels, reboots and remakes of things that were successful. They don't know how to actually make success on their own.
Hollywood is pathetic these days.
Cephus
Master Member
Actually, I was just thinking about this a little more. Last night, we watched the season 3 opener for Orville and SNW back to back. Orville was great. I spent the entire time watching the screen and I want to watch the episode again. SNW was just... there. It's relatively inoffensive (compared to Discovery and Picard which made me want to throw things at the TV), but it isn't really memorable. Heck, I don't really remember much of what happened in the episode now. The parts I recall are the parts that were dumb. There was nothing actually good in it. Like so much TV today, it's all flash and virtually no substance. Is it better than what we've had? Sure. That's like saying a broken arm is better than a crushed spine. It's not horrifically terrible but that's not a lot to recommend it. If there was a lot on TV to watch right now, I might not bother. It's only because I've seen the really good ones like Stranger Things already, or there aren't that many on now, like The Orville. SNW is a filler, nothing more. It's not painfully awful but I'm finding it hard to say that it's actually good.
That's kind of a problem.
That's kind of a problem.
robn1
Master Member
It was absolutely a real plot point. It was a major part of Spock's character development, and Trek's world building. Once Spock melded with Van Gelder and realized it could be done safely, he felt more free to do it in the future. But these new "writers" are happy to tear down the work of others to cover for their own laziness and lack of imagination.
Same with the Gorn. The established first time encounter in "Arena" is completely undermined by their appearance in SNW, again because these "writers" are more interested in making references to the past than in creating anything new.
I will not "make peace" with the cultural vandalism of these hack frauds just to be able to "enjoy" their crap show.
Picard102
Sr Member
Where?
robn1
Master Member
I know continuity and canon don't mean much to you, but surely you remember that Sam Kirk is part of this crew.
asalaw
Sr Member
Yes, that’s exactly the point. In real life, in a professional setting (or a military one), you voice your disagreements with the boss in private. This avoids undermining the boss’s authority, which would (in real life) have the consequence of forcing the boss to fire you on the spot. Such as in The Corbomite Maneuver, when Bailey’s meltdown forces Kirk to relieve him to preserve his authority and decorum and discipline on the bridge. Or in Balance of Terror, when Kirk dresses down Stiles publicly for insulting the first officer—publicly. Both of these examples have been mentioned earlier in this thread.
Kirk would have relieved Ortegas several times over by now, and possibly taken her off bridge duty till she learned to keep her snarky trap shut. (Although, to be fair, that mouth would have washed her out at the Academy long before she got a ship assignment.) Singh would have received a few reprimands by now as well, for having the temerity to bark orders at the captain. In real life, once you slap the king, you’re wrong—even if he had it coming. From that moment on, the fallout is about you slapping the king, not the emergency that made you do it.
This whole problem of pretending professionalism and discipline aren’t important in Starfleet is a major flaw in these shows, as it undermines believability and character both, usually for the sake of a cheap chuckle. These are terrible creative choices to anyone who thinks that art should have standards. But if you don’t, that’s okay. Just get used to being fed sh** and having to pretend to like it. That’s what you get when you go through life saying “Hey, it’s all good…”
Otherwise, what's the point of discipline and chain of command?
For reference, Riker vs. Shelby ( "Best of Both Worlds" 1):
Cephus
Master Member
I mean, they made a big deal out of it in the first episode, who hasn't been paying attention?
Picard102
Sr Member
That's not his father. It's his brother.
robn1
Master Member
I knew that's what Cephus meant, and so did you.
Great on-point example of a realistic portrayal of military protocols and conversations that I would expect to occur even among 21st century service members—even the portion between Riker and Shelby in the turbo-elevator.
Picard102
Sr Member
You’re a poor mind reader. Hope it’s not your day job.
robn1
Master Member
You were the one trying (poorly) to read my mind a couple weeks ago.
Another excellent example. Great character conflict and drama from a great episode, and a conflict which still reasonably fits within the parameters of actual military service, unlike the “friends in space” schtick.
One of the many reasons we love you, Rob.
To coin a phrase, the line must be drawn HERE. This far, no further.
They have not earned the benefit of the doubt. They sneer and laugh and mock the loyal fanbase which kept the franchise going for decades, a franchise which they were handed and proceeded treat like a lark, instead of a cultural responsibility. Time and time again, they have shown their stupidity, their arrogance, their greed, their bigotry. I’m not saying one show should be punished for the sins of another, but this is clearly just more of the same, but better disguised. That in no way makes it “good”.
asalaw
Sr Member
I said many times before the show premiered I was expecting the trappings of Trek, but none of the substance. I began suspecting this would be the case when I saw the art direction—visual callbacks to TOS that smelled like misdirection (yes, I’m mixing metaphors, visuals don’t smell, leave me alone, I’m old).
The stories are an extension of the same strategy—let’s camouflage our show in tbe colors of TOS, and maybe the fans won’t notice we’re crapping all over it. So we get TOS-based characters and story elements, but subtly altered so they’re more in line with THE MESSAGE.
They hoped we’d be so enamored with the body of Trek, we’d forgive them for ripping out its soul.
Well, after years of this, I’m not in a forgiving mood.
The stories are an extension of the same strategy—let’s camouflage our show in tbe colors of TOS, and maybe the fans won’t notice we’re crapping all over it. So we get TOS-based characters and story elements, but subtly altered so they’re more in line with THE MESSAGE.
They hoped we’d be so enamored with the body of Trek, we’d forgive them for ripping out its soul.
Well, after years of this, I’m not in a forgiving mood.
Similar threads
