Star Trek: Strange New Worlds

Picard102

Sr Member
And BTW, I haven’t mentioned this before, but I’ve realized what bothers me about Pike. He’s not a ship’s captain, he’s some kind of p***y youth pastor. Every other captain we’ve seen in the original and the spinoffs, from Kirk through Captain Hair and even Archer, exuded gravitas and authority. Pike just sort of oozes empathy, like a hippy therapist. I wouldn’t follow him into a lunch line, let alone a battle.
Probably would have been best to have left the mysoginistic comments to yourself.
 

Picard102

Sr Member
You've brought up my "apologist" post a number of times, which honestly was not directed at you or anyone in this thread. But then you make this post, which seems plucked from many of the shill media types I was referring to.

*edit to add* This is engagement in discussion, so kudos for that.
I mean let me know what other thread you’re in complaining about the inconsistencies with every other series, movie, even TOS within itself. Or is it just confined to “nu-trek”?
 

asalaw

Sr Member
Yes, Nick Meyer complained about that 180-degree coverage on the Bridge during his DVD commentaries for the movies.

And, of course, TNG's observation lounge served the same purpose as TOS' briefing room.
Not surprising about Meyer—they rarely moved away from the primary arc on TOS, where the basic field of view went from Spock’s station to Scotty’s. Coverage went a lot faster that way, and you didn’t have to fly wild set sections in and out and re-light a whole lot. They often cheated Spock’s closeups when he was standing next to the captain’s chair, so that the background would be his bridge station instead of just the empty stage If they shot him with accurate geography. They probably should have given more thought to shooting economy for the movies instead of spreading Spock and Uhura so far apart. The TOS layout was really good for that.

They seem to be doing something similar on Strange New Hair, where most of the shots are looking from the viewscreen area toward the captain’s chair, and off to Pike’s right to get Spock. Couldn’t tell you what they’re doing in Pike’s Aspen ski lodge quarters. That set is just ridiculous.
 

pengbuzz

Sr Member
It helps a lot that your self-worth doesn’t hinge on whether other people share your taste in entertainment. Shame others don’t choose to profit by your example… ;)
Sad indeed; the truth is, there's always gorn to be someone who needs to have their ego egged on by a feeding frenzy of praise and affirmation. Such hunt in raptor-like packs, looking for prey that they can draw into their black hole and pummel. Then they will attempt to spit their venom at their intended victims in order to impregnate them with their point of view, which they hope will come bursting out of the poor victims' chest and spawn...

... a poorly Aliens-derivative Star Trek episode. :D


Yeah, every commander needs some kind of office, and when I walked into the TNG ready room, I have to admit I felt a thrill, as even by then a lot of great scenes had happened there. Not as big a thrill as when I stepped through the next door onto the bridge, though…
That must have been something!

As for TOS, I’ve come to believe lately that if I had my druthers, I’d completely scrap the exposition room the briefing room on TOS. There’s gotta be a better way to weave that stuff into a story than having everybody sit around a table and yak about it.
A "briefing room" scenario almost seems like the captain of a ship asking his crew permission to be in charge in the later Trek series.
Jimmy Smits once gave me a tour of the LA Law sets on the Fox lot, and when we got to the conference room, he was very clear that everybody hated shooting those scenes, because they took forever to cover. All those characters around a table, and you have to shoot coverage of everybody, and every time the camera turns around to cover someone else it’s a re-light. I feel like it’s a metaphor for what those scenes do to the story—let’s all stop moving forward and just make long speeches while sitting still.

It gets so tedious, desperate hack writers do all sorts of cornball crap to try to liven it up, like have Pike cook an omelette and have Spock wash dishes in a desperate attempt to distract from the fact that we’re basically reading a grocery list on camera.
I figure that if you have to give that much exposition to make the story work, maybe it's time to rewrite the story.
 

Gregatron

Master Member
Not surprising about Meyer—they rarely moved away from the primary arc on TOS, where the basic field of view went from Spock’s station to Scotty’s. Coverage went a lot faster that way, and you didn’t have to fly wild set sections in and out and re-light a whole lot. They often cheated Spock’s closeups when he was standing next to the captain’s chair, so that the background would be his bridge station instead of just the empty stage If they shot him with accurate geography. They probably should have given more thought to shooting economy for the movies instead of spreading Spock and Uhura so far apart. The TOS layout was really good for that.

They seem to be doing something similar on Strange New Hair, where most of the shots are looking from the viewscreen area toward the captain’s chair, and off to Pike’s right to get Spock. Couldn’t tell you what they’re doing in Pike’s Aspen ski lodge quarters. That set is just ridiculous.

Yeah, if you pay attention, you can see how they cheated the closeups in TOS, since the stations looked so similar. And, of course, there’s the occasional shot where you can see the side of the science station’s pie-wedge, since the station next to it was removed for camera access.

Interestingly enough, Spock’s station in TMP was directly behind Kirk, with only the turbolift in-between his and Uhura’a stations. For TWOK, the layout was changed to something more akin to TOS, with Spock off to Kirk’s right.

Coverage problems aside, that original Bridge design is still an incredible template for a command center, even 55 years on.


Meanwhile, we now have NuPike’s luxurious cabin. Can’t imagine what Scotty would say, considering his reaction to his own guest quarters aboard 1701-D in “Relics”.
 

Gregatron

Master Member
And Pike doesn't want to be there, he's being forced.

Yeah, as TOS noted again and again, it took a very special kind of person to command a Starship, to say nothing of doing it well. People like R.M. Merrick and Janice Lester just weren’t cut out for it. Even Matt Decker, implied to be a competent and well-regarded Starship commander, fell apart under the right conditions.

The burden of those 430 lives weighed upon Jim Kirk often. There’s that moment in “The Apple” where it seems that the Enterprise is going to burn up in orbit, and Kirk seems to be edging toward a Decker-style, guilt-fueled breakdown.

That whole aspect of the burden of command was certainly diluted by TNG, with the ship now carrying over 1,000 people, including families. Part of what made TOS special was that feeling of really being out there on the frontier, with that relatively small crew always being at risk when facing the unknown. Would you really want families and their children to encounter the likes of the Kelvans or the Psi 2000 virus or whatever?


Now, it’s a space joyride with a group of undisciplined buddies and their p***y guidance counselor, apparently.
 

asalaw

Sr Member
Sad indeed; the truth is, there's always gorn to be someone who needs to have their ego egged on by a feeding frenzy of praise and affirmation. Such hunt in raptor-like packs, looking for prey that they can draw into their black hole and pummel. Then they will attempt to spit their venom at their intended victims in order to impregnate them with their point of view, which they hope will come bursting out of the poor victims' chest and spawn...

... a poorly Aliens-derivative Star Trek episode. :D
:lol: :lol: :lol:
That must have been something!
To say the least! I was 25, only maybe 8 months off my stint as a location manager on Miami Vice (pretty sure we shot Freefall in April ‘89, and this was January ‘90), I was working on a film right across the street and was on my day off, I’d seen quite a lot of set time for my age, but I was basically a squealing fangirl when I hit the TNG sets. They were shooting the big Klingon council chamber scenes for Sins of the Father, and there were Klingons everywhere. It was pretty cool. Till I saw a Klingon sitting on the lift gate of the grip truck outside stage 16, and he was smoking a cigarette. That kinda crashed the illusion. :lol:
A "briefing room" scenario almost seems like the captain of a ship asking his crew permission to be in charge in the later Trek series.

I figure that if you have to give that much exposition to make the story work, maybe it's time to rewrite the story.
Exactly. It gets kind of lazy and formulaic. Doing it over breakfast and dishes on Strange New Hair is a step in the right direction, but it’s still just papering over expository dialog. A bandaid. Breaking it up with “Mmm, yummy omelette” doesn’t help very much. The golden rule of writing—written, staged, or filmed—is show, don’t tell. Briefing room/conference room scenes that just roll out exposition are real story killers.

But let’s face it, SNH has much deeper writing problems than just badly handled exposition. They’ve got Uhura as a tedious Mary Sue, they’ve got—well, they had—Hemmer, who only spoke in on-the-nose life advice, they’ve got La’an, who is basically Camina Drummer with a different accent, whose whole purpose seems to have been to set up the Gorn.

They’ve got two characters they went out of their way to introduce—Sam Kirk and Number One—who have been either AWOL or just set dressing. They’ve got plots that are either silly, transparently derivative, or both. And a Captain who has a lot more in common with Merrill Stubing than Jim Kirk. And that’s not even getting into the rampant wokery that’s ruining Chapel, or the snarky cardboard cutout that is Ortegas.

If they fired the entire writing staff and dug up Hemingway, Shakespeare, and Rod Serling, I’m not sure they could fix this show.
 

kalkamel

Master Member
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Krieger

Sr Member
:lol: :lol: :lol:

To say the least! I was 25, only maybe 8 months off my stint as a location manager on Miami Vice (pretty sure we shot Freefall in April ‘89, and this was January ‘90), I was working on a film right across the street and was on my day off, I’d seen quite a lot of set time for my age, but I was basically a squealing fangirl when I hit the TNG sets. They were shooting the big Klingon council chamber scenes for Sins of the Father, and there were Klingons everywhere. It was pretty cool. Till I saw a Klingon sitting on the lift gate of the grip truck outside stage 16, and he was smoking a cigarette. That kinda crashed the illusion. :lol:

Exactly. It gets kind of lazy and formulaic. Doing it over breakfast and dishes on Strange New Hair is a step in the right direction, but it’s still just papering over expository dialog. A bandaid. Breaking it up with “Mmm, yummy omelette” doesn’t help very much. The golden rule of writing—written, staged, or filmed—is show, don’t tell. Briefing room/conference room scenes that just roll out exposition are real story killers.

But let’s face it, SNH has much deeper writing problems than just badly handled exposition. They’ve got Uhura as a tedious Mary Sue, they’ve got—well, they had—Hemmer, who only spoke in on-the-nose life advice, they’ve got La’an, who is basically Camina Drummer with a different accent, whose whole purpose seems to have been to set up the Gorn.

They’ve got two characters they went out of their way to introduce—Sam Kirk and Number One—who have been either AWOL or just set dressing. They’ve got plots that are either silly, transparently derivative, or both. And a Captain who has a lot more in common with Merrill Stubing than Jim Kirk. And that’s not even getting into the rampant wokery that’s ruining Chapel, or the snarky cardboard cutout that is Ortegas.

If they fired the entire writing staff and dug up Hemingway, Shakespeare, and Rod Serling, I’m not sure they could fix this show.
Interesting points on expository writing, I was literally hungry after the omelette, cheese and waffle scene, took me right out of what they were talking about (not kidding, have to watch what I eat and it distracted me). My take, this is the equivalent of 10 Forward, which is ok, but if you wanted to say something in that scene, this could have been executed differently - especially since poking at lettuce or sprouts is less of a distraction and you can still act like you are eating ;)

Miami Vice, thats cool you were a location manager - one of my favorites from the start to finish of the series (especially Brother's Keeper scenes in NYC, where we went to all the locations after the first episode aired).

Costumes are my point of interest, and behind the scenes footage on how the sausage is made.

I get why my RPF friends are really make or break on the story. I get it, I think you can have a good story and create new standards at the same time, I believe it's possible. Season one is in the can, let's see what ep10 brings this week.
 

asalaw

Sr Member
Interesting points on expository writing, I was literally hungry after the omelette, cheese and waffle scene, took me right out of what they were talking about (not kidding, have to watch what I eat and it distracted me). My take, this is the equivalent of 10 Forward, which is ok, but if you wanted to say something in that scene, this could have been executed differently - especially since poking at lettuce or sprouts is less of a distraction and you can still act like you are eating ;)
10 Forward was different—it wasn’t just a logical setting for exposition, especially with the Guinan character there for insight into things like theme—in The Measure of a Man, for instance, she prods Picard into discovering that what Maddox is proposing would lead to slavery.

Writing isn’t just a pet thing—it can make or break any production. Great writing can hold up mediocre acting and directing, but Brando and Hitchcock in their prime couldn’t save a bad script. Storytelling has rules, forms, and standards for very good reasons. Good stories lead to satisfaction and catharsis, bad ones lead to boredom and disappointment. Thousands of years of accumulated wisdom have gone into those rules; a good craftsman can break them for intentional effect, but the hacks in charge of SNH just don’t care about them. And it shows.
 

Gregatron

Master Member
10 Forward was different—it wasn’t just a logical setting for exposition, especially with the Guinan character there for insight into things like theme—in The Measure of a Man, for instance, she prods Picard into discovering that what Maddox is proposing would lead to slavery.

…and now it’s a 21st Century bar in Los Angeles, for some reason. Because the concept of “Deck 10, forward section” is a little factoid that seems beyond the comprehension of Kurtzman’s chosen writers.
 
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Krieger

Sr Member
10 Forward was different—it wasn’t just a logical setting for exposition, especially with the Guinan character there for insight into things like theme—in The Measure of a Man, for instance, she prods Picard into discovering that what Maddox is proposing would lead to slavery.

Writing isn’t just a pet thing—it can make or break any production. Great writing can hold up mediocre acting and directing, but Brando and Hitchcock in their prime couldn’t save a bad script. Storytelling has rules, forms, and standards for very good reasons. Good stories lead to satisfaction and catharsis, bad ones lead to boredom and disappointment. Thousands of years of accumulated wisdom have gone into those rules; a good craftsman can break them for intentional effect, but the hacks in charge of SNH just don’t care about them. And it shows.
Fair enough, I think I will spend some time reading Stephen King's On Writing: A Memoir Of the Craft. Some people think SK is a hack, and for the most part, some of his stories upset me, scared the crap out of me (never owned a pet until I met my better half, but I swear that dog was lurking in my closet the summer of 1981), or left me frustrated as heck (The Long Walk to this day), and sometimes, provided a measure of satisfaction that the protagonist won.

You raise some good points about writing.
 

asalaw

Sr Member
Fair enough, I think I will spend some time reading Stephen King's On Writing: A Memoir Of the Craft. Some people think SK is a hack, and for the most part, some of his stories upset me, scared the crap out of me (never owned a pet until I met my better half, but I swear that dog was lurking in my closet the summer of 1981), or left me frustrated as heck (The Long Walk to this day), and sometimes, provided a measure of satisfaction that the protagonist won.

You raise some good points about writing.
You might also look into Save the Cat by Blake Snyder, and of course Hero with a Thousand Faces by Joseph Campbell, which was George Lucas’s primary source for constructing Luke Skywalker’s hero arc. KM Weiland also has a fabulous website with very accessible articles on every aspect of writing: Helping Writers Become Authors

And there’s the very first book on writing I ever read, more than 30 years ago: Adventures in the Screen Trade by William Goldman.
 
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