Original ANH Stormtrooper helmet and Armor - Just the Facts

[CSMacLaren]

Don't know if this image helps the thread in anyway.

The above are the molds supposedly in possession of Thomas William Greenyer. Note the distorted look as characteristic of AA/SDS.

I actually wouldn't have minded turning into a coffee table!

 

[SithLord]

I did spend some time in SDS threads past going through some of the features of his stunt helmet, so take these as you will. When I made these I simply wondered what AA really had or didn't have in terms of molds, and I presented these with the view to trying to establish whether he did or did not have original molds. I'm not a TK expert, but I can compare things. The point here is that to compare later pulls with originals isn't necessarily going to give you the entire picture. For example the tear detail is there. Clearly AA doesn't have original molds, but knowing where he got the molds he does have would contribute something substantial to the case against him. In order to do that, one has to study the detail of the early pulls. But with so many TK experts around here, I've seen no one bother to do that and instead the arguments centered around grossly obvious differences like tube undercut or just complaints about the lies. Why not actually study the helmets?

Inside between the eyes...

Indentations between the teeth (which would have been cut out on anything else) matching the original TIE...

SDS vs original eyes...

Left tear detail, TE vs SDS vs GF vs Original ANH...

Right tear detail, Original ANH vs SDS vs TE...

Another example...

Looking at the overall shape of the face compared to an original ANH...

Chin area closeup...

I didn't post these because I believed everything AA said, I posted them because I wanted to show what similarities I saw. It is easy to say oh they are not from original molds AA is lying. Sure he's lying, but there must be some kind of value in actually examining what he has and maybe someone here can figure out where they came from. I do the same thing with Vader helmets to try and determine their lineage. But I don't have anywhere near as much experience with TK helmets.

 

[ghostryder]

Speaking of the original Alien head sculpt:

Hey Oscar Wilde!

 

[SeanB13]

exoray:

IMO it makes no sense that a machine operator did any sculpting or changes to the design provided to him... More likely an staff artist created those parts or made changed as needed... AA was no artist, just look at the ears he created for his 'prototype' and tell me that the same guy created the ones that actually flow with the original helmet design... He was all about making it easier to manufacture on his equipment not making it artistically appealing...

I completely agree with this line of thinking. The Scree-Used ears and even the vocoder have an organic flow, an artistic quality, whereas the modifications on the ''prototype'' and the Pemberton sculpt are clunky, rigid, boring and lifeless, there's absolutely nothing aesthetically pleasing about those pieces what so ever.​

SithLord:

Why not actually study the helmets?

There are several aspects of this discussion. 1.Does he have the original forming tools? 2.Did he actually sculpt the original helmets from scratch.​

They both fall under the category of deception, but I think the aspect of AA usurping someone else's talent and hard work for his own personal gain and ego is pretty damn sleazy.​

 

[exoray]

Speaking of the original Alien head sculpt:

Hey Oscar Wilde!

Go-Go Gadget Andrew Vision...

 

[Apollo]

:lol :lol :lol

 

[TK765]

But I don't have anywhere near as much experience with TK helmets.

Understatement of the century :rolleyes

Seriously, do everyone a favor and lets not start down this road again with your endless photo comparisons :confused

Its obvious, you still really can't tell whats similar and whats not.

As the photos you already posted show, your really still grabbing at straws trying to find similarities, when in the end nobody cares because of all the horrible differences.

It will not accomplish anything and will go nowhere fast. Leave the thread as its titled, "Just the facts".

If anyone wants to see Sithlords subjective comparisons I can just e-mail you the old thread from 2005, so we can avoid as what others have complained about, "opening old wounds".

 

[Brian Muir]

Ainsworth replied on his facebook page.

He now admits that his stand was "influenced" by the Master Replicas stand, but claims his is the superior product, and that MR later copied another of his stands.

However, he failed to address any of the questions about which helmet design he is claiming was Nick Pemberton's or Liz Moore's, or about the differences in his helmets and armor from the originals. Instead, he simply asks if we are disputing the evidence reported by Pemberton (and his "workforce"), Mollo, Lucas, and Liz's boyfriend.

"Red clay" or "red herring"?

I'm assuming that Pemberton's sculpt might have actually been primarily composed of red clay, and that it was painted grey to make it uniform (due to the use of components which were not red clay).

If we can provide transcripts of Pemberton's testimony citing his use of the Morris Minor components in his sculpt, it should be very clear which design should be credited to Liz Moore, regardless of which helmet was made from red or grey clay.

To quote from Pemberton's statement paragraph 38

My first attempt included a Morris Minor ashtray grill. I quite liked the Morris Minor ashtray being incorporated. It gave it a sort of touch of Britishness

(by 'first attempt' he means he carried on working on it)

 

[Brian Muir]

Quotes from Ainsworth's statement for court case

My reputation in the film memorabilia market

289. Due to my expertise in plastics and vacuum forming the items I produced for Star Wars using vacuum forming was akin to making something on Blue Peter. It was Jackanory stuff for me but I was probably one of only a handful of people in the world in 1976 with that expertise. They came to the right person for help. That is where they were lucky. If they had not had the good fortune to find me I do not know how the film would have turned out.

290. I have a great reputation in the memorabilia market. I am not aware of there being any confusion. I have no records of confusion.

 

[Bootlegger137]

290. I have a great reputation in the memorabilia market. I am not aware of there being any confusion. I have no records of confusion.

I wonder if he's aware of it now? :confused

 

[Apollo]

Yes PLEASE let it end with that post!

You are doing yourself and others a big favor if you do.

Seriously, do everyone a favor and lets not start down this road again with your endless photo comparisons

 

[exoray]

but there must be some kind of value in actually examining what he has and maybe someone here can figure out where they came from.

Why bother, the guy is a lying despicable lunitic that is stealing credit from other artist! That is the point of this thread, it's not about what parts AA recast but the fact that he has and continues to take credit for works he didn't create... And continues to build upon the lie he lives while spreading an alternate reality and history...

His armor is clearly a ROTJ recast, there is zero chance it's ANH, the origins go back to a recast from a TE/GF armor set, the top/back of his helmet is an ugly monstrosity that no one cares about... The faceplate is the only redeeming quality of his helmet and that IMO is possibly a cleaned up recast of one of his 'prototype' helmets or maybe his Tie helmet (he auctioned one of those didn't he?) or even another random aka TE face... The challenge to his faceplate not being from his own source is the fact it's missing the purposely removed tear detail, leading one to believe it's nothing short of a recast of a TE origin helmet...

You can point out a small detail here or there that matches, and that only proves it has some common origin, it doesn't necessarily provide a direct link to it's source... If the mold had a squiggly, then every pull form that mold had a squiggly and every recast of every recast will have the squiggly... It's the glaring in your face BIG things that are wrong with the helmet that immediately gives it away as not being sourced from the original molds...

And I have to agree we don't need any more squiggly line photos, that road has been traveled...

 

[SpyderDan]

To quote from Pemberton's statement paragraph 38

My first attempt included a Morris Minor ashtray grill. I quite liked the Morris Minor ashtray being incorporated. It gave it a sort of touch of Britishness

(by 'first attempt' he means he carried on working on it)

Thank you, Mr. Muir. That is exactly what I was looking for.

Ainsworth has just now replied to my most recent post on facebook, and definitively claimed the Liz Moore sculpt as the one referred to as "red clay".

To summarize his key points (he actually replied to each of my points at length):

- The "red clay" is actually brown.

- The "red clay" helmet was "supplied" to him by Pemberton.

- The picture on his website was "not retouched in any way".

- The underlying color of the helmet made of components must be grey, since it was "made at the studios".

- Ainsworth does not recognize any parts from a Morris Minor in either helmet.

- It was an "early effort" by Pemberton that included the Morris Minor part, and this part had already been abandoned by time of the photograph in question.

- "Why on earth would Nick sculpt something looking like the grey helmet when the two Ralph McQuarrie pictures were obviously the concept drawings that the Red Clay helmet. was derived from. ... It doesn`t look anything like the concept drawings from Ralph McQuarrie that Nick was given."

- Lucas never suggested the grey clay helmet was made my Pemberton, only claiming that the "red clay" helmet was made by the studio.

- Pemberton contacted in 1975 to make the stormtrooper, questions whether Liz Moore was even employed by the studio yet.

- Morris Minor ashtray grill used because "detail of this sort is impossible to reproduce in clay."

- Ainsworth claims to have "made the mouth detail up when I sculpted the moulds".

- John Mollo can back up the claim that Pemberton sculpted the "red clay" helmet

- Pemberton is "an extremely talented artistic person" and is the one who should be outraged about giving credit where credit is due.


So, there you go, folks. Is there any truth to any of these statements by Ainsworth?

 

[SeanB13]

AA:

They came to the right person for help. That is where they were lucky. If they had not had the good fortune to find me I do not know how the film would have turned out.

Wow, I had no idea the pivotal role Ainsworth played in the creation of the film, if it weren't for him, there would be NO Star Wars.​

I always though it was a group effort, but I stand corrected. ​

 

[CSMacLaren]

Wow, this is good information on his confusion regarding the color of the clay and the Pemberton sculpt. Please make sure you do screen-captures (that include the date) of the pertinent posts on FaceBook. Those could be important evidence material later.

 

[CSMacLaren]

AA:

Wow, I had no idea the pivotal role Ainsworth played in the creation of the film, if it weren't for him, there would be NO Star Wars.​

I always though it was a group effort, but I stand corrected. ​

If it weren't for the studio's vacforming machine breaking down after the first few suits, there would have been NO Ainsworth. :rolleyes

 

[CTF]

You should read the BS being trundled out by AA on his Facebook group at the moment

I see Moogybaby is still talking 'bout the stands.

 

[SeanB13]

If it weren't for the studio's vacforming machine breaking down after the first few suits, there would have been NO Ainsworth.

I know that's what we've been led to believe, but it's just not true.​

According to Ainsworth, he was one of the few ''experts'' in the whole World, at that time, that could have even pulled it off.​

AA:

I was probably one of only a handful of people in the world in 1976 with that expertise.

All bow down and pay reverence to that which is Ainsworth.

 

[SithLord]

You can point out a small detail here or there that matches, and that only proves it has some common origin, it doesn't necessarily provide a direct link to it's source... If the mold had a squiggly, then every pull form that mold had a squiggly and every recast of every recast will have the squiggly... It's the glaring in your face BIG things that are wrong with the helmet that immediately gives it away as not being sourced from the original molds...

And I have to agree we don't need any more squiggly line photos, that road has been traveled...

Why? Because someone pointed out the tear trap isn't there and it is. Because someone else pointed out warpage in the helmet and it has the same shape as an original ANH in front view. Even the top cap has every nuance of shape if you looked closely enough.

So? Why don't you ask the same people why they bring those details up in the first place if they don't even take the time to study them properly? That is why I show the comparisons. I don't care what AA claims or thinks. But I can see for myself what is there.

 

[SithLord]

Understatement of the century :rolleyes

Seriously, do everyone a favor and lets not start down this road again with your endless photo comparisons :confused

Its obvious, you still really can't tell whats similar and whats not.

As the photos you already posted show, your really still grabbing at straws trying to find similarities, when in the end nobody cares because of all the horrible differences.

It will not accomplish anything and will go nowhere fast. Leave the thread as its titled, "Just the facts".

If anyone wants to see Sithlords subjective comparisons I can just e-mail you the old thread from 2005, so we can avoid as what others have complained about, "opening old wounds".

Well I didn't see you point out what was evident about the SDS helmet detail or similarities with an original ANH helmet, and you are supposed to be an expert. I had to be the one that pointed it out and I'm not even an expert.