New Elstree Studio documentary with discarded Graflex.
- Thread starter Skelatorious
- Start date
I'd say yeah, probably epoxy. Superglue is a possibility, I guess, but it cures dang fast, so you don't have much time to straighten/position that grip once it makes contact with the tube. Of course, if things are laid out and marked beforehand, the quick curing could also be a big help.
About the rivets, I also don't really care what they were for, but I think to reinforce the D ring/bottom plate is a pretty safe bet. I don't think an old photographer would have much trouble finding a replacement spring for the batteries, so I feel like that theory has less logic behind it. And I don't believe that four rivets all on one side of the tube, would do much to keep the spring retained in the bottom of the flash tube. I feel like if someone were to install rivets to keep the spring (or batteries) in place, they'd be placed say, more like a cross. Or a triangle, if you want to use minimal "rivetage".
Danny, I don't think the productions were quite so rushy-rushy/slapped-together and out the door as you believe. Perhaps with some things, or in some circumstances, like while on-set/shooting, taping the Stormtrooper armor back together, but for the most part, a good deal of thought and care went into these films. I'd say the prop fabricators definitely gave a damn, and did everything they could to do the best job they could with the time they had. Especially in pre-production.
I will say I'm excited as all hell to see this pic of the Hero D ring that y'all are passing around!
About the rivets, I also don't really care what they were for, but I think to reinforce the D ring/bottom plate is a pretty safe bet. I don't think an old photographer would have much trouble finding a replacement spring for the batteries, so I feel like that theory has less logic behind it. And I don't believe that four rivets all on one side of the tube, would do much to keep the spring retained in the bottom of the flash tube. I feel like if someone were to install rivets to keep the spring (or batteries) in place, they'd be placed say, more like a cross. Or a triangle, if you want to use minimal "rivetage".
Danny, I don't think the productions were quite so rushy-rushy/slapped-together and out the door as you believe. Perhaps with some things, or in some circumstances, like while on-set/shooting, taping the Stormtrooper armor back together, but for the most part, a good deal of thought and care went into these films. I'd say the prop fabricators definitely gave a damn, and did everything they could to do the best job they could with the time they had. Especially in pre-production.
I will say I'm excited as all hell to see this pic of the Hero D ring that y'all are passing around!
I agree. It looks exactly like my epoxy 2k glue when I remove some tracks.
Mouse Vader
Sr Member
I remember a clear glue called 'uhu' as prevelent late '70's. The residue reminds me of it. Looks like it's still made, the all purpose adhesive looks like it's still the same one. No idea how it would stand up to this application though.
www.uhu.com
edit : Bostick all purpose was a similar rival product. Also seems to still be in production. Little trip down memory lane these names.
UHU | All products
We offer a wide range of products for small to large jobs. Always the right product for every job!
www.uhu.com
edit : Bostick all purpose was a similar rival product. Also seems to still be in production. Little trip down memory lane these names.
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Just a perspective on the quality of production...
1. While ANH had a decent budget, for what it was trying to do, there wasn't a lot. A ton of money went to founding ILM. Lucas gave up his salary (famously for IP/sequel rights), so the studio wouldn't shut them down when they went over budget. The figure we see looking back now is adjusted to the final cost, which was well over what was originally budgeted. So the pressure was on.
2. You can't really argue over the quality of the props when we can look at them and see where corners were cut. It always comes down that they had no idea we'd ever be able to look at these things up close or in detail. Even VHS wasn't on their mind in the 70s, much less 40 years later all of us being able to look at 4k images at home. It's not that they were lazy or didn't care, but there was always something else to do, and if it wasn't getting a dedicated close-up, they'd cut corners (like say the ESB DL44 flash hider's knurling being drawn on with a pen.)
1. While ANH had a decent budget, for what it was trying to do, there wasn't a lot. A ton of money went to founding ILM. Lucas gave up his salary (famously for IP/sequel rights), so the studio wouldn't shut them down when they went over budget. The figure we see looking back now is adjusted to the final cost, which was well over what was originally budgeted. So the pressure was on.
2. You can't really argue over the quality of the props when we can look at them and see where corners were cut. It always comes down that they had no idea we'd ever be able to look at these things up close or in detail. Even VHS wasn't on their mind in the 70s, much less 40 years later all of us being able to look at 4k images at home. It's not that they were lazy or didn't care, but there was always something else to do, and if it wasn't getting a dedicated close-up, they'd cut corners (like say the ESB DL44 flash hider's knurling being drawn on with a pen.)
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AnubisGuard
Master Member
This right here. Especially when you compare ANH to its sequels/prequels– I was reading through nkg 's write-ups on the various astromech props in the OT and it's obvious how kludged together a lot of it was in the first film. R2's with a hacked-down left leg subbing for the middle leg, paint schemes all over the place, one unit studded in pop rivets, etc etc. They were just doing whatever they had to do to get it in the can and they didn't care too much if it was messy.
vader45
Sr Member
This is an extremely amazing discovery.
At this point we will never know why those rivets are there.we won't know unless we go back in time. So the discussion on where they came from is mute unless new evidance shows up.
But from what we do know it does point towards production added
They are externally on the flash so they are a must for ultimate accuracy to the prop.
At this point we will never know why those rivets are there.we won't know unless we go back in time. So the discussion on where they came from is mute unless new evidance shows up.
But from what we do know it does point towards production added
- It took us 41 years to discover them so they hid them purposely well.
- They are only located were the D ring is placed.
- They almost fit in-between the t tracks.
- If they were added prior why would production leave them on? They could be drilled out and holes covered by the tracks(that would left us with a slightly different overall look)
They are externally on the flash so they are a must for ultimate accuracy to the prop.
I'm with lonepigeon on an "L" bracket inside the bottom of the tube on the side with the rivets makes the most sense, and its somehting that would strengthen the d-ring connection, spreading the pull to those side rivets. Now, gettin an L-bracket down into that tube and keeping it in place to rivet in place... that's the tricky part. But we know they also probably fashioned their own aluminum d-ring bracket, so why not something else inside.
I know Roger's word has been questioned, but I just thought about something he said about building the lightsaber, then taking it to show George.
"The only thing we agreed was [Luke] wouldn’t use it in Tunisia, but he would have to hang it on his belt. So I stuck a d-ring on the end of it, and that was it. Then I made five or six of them. The two that I made went out to Tunisia, and then that’s the one that Obi-Wan brings out of his box and gives to Luke. "
So if this is true, there is a possibility that there were two Tunisa sabers, and one of them had the D ring attached on after the T tracks were on, according to Roger.
As for the rivets, I agree, they are there, probably for some reason. Without seeing in the tube, or productions shots of the graflexs before conversion, we will never truly know.
"The only thing we agreed was [Luke] wouldn’t use it in Tunisia, but he would have to hang it on his belt. So I stuck a d-ring on the end of it, and that was it. Then I made five or six of them. The two that I made went out to Tunisia, and then that’s the one that Obi-Wan brings out of his box and gives to Luke. "
So if this is true, there is a possibility that there were two Tunisa sabers, and one of them had the D ring attached on after the T tracks were on, according to Roger.
As for the rivets, I agree, they are there, probably for some reason. Without seeing in the tube, or productions shots of the graflexs before conversion, we will never truly know.
Yep. I recently made a point at the Graflex Addicts Support Group page that the Skinnyflex may be blasphemous to some (because the prop was custom-made, and not a converted Graflex), but it absolutely did the job of representing the Skywalker saber onscreen. These props, models, and costumes are made FOR THE MOVIE, not for stills, prop replicas, or frame-by-frame, 4K study. Rule Number One of movie propmaking is that it just has to look good on camera. Any extra work is a waste of time and money. The painted knurling on the Hoth Solo blaster works perfectly fine, because the shots that the prop appears in are short and from a good enough distance to not be noticeable AS painted lines.
In that same vein, your average viewer would not at all notice that the Graflex props are different from film to film. It just has to “read” as the same object: metal cylinder, black strip-grips, bunny ears, buttons, and control box.
From film to film, you’d be hard-pressed to notice the difference, since the shots last for mere seconds at a time, and people can’t freeze-frame and use slide-rules in movie theaters. Although it can certainly be said that the attention to detail put into modern movies is a direct response to home media and freeze-frame technology. Whereas in 1977, Lucas knew he could get away with a heck of a lot.
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hear hear!
I'd like to add my 2 cents, though it's not much.
I may be wrong, but Halliwax might feel the same way I do. I don't have an opinion fully either way on their source, these extra rivets. The arguments above are very valid, especially needing to reinforce the D ring. I'm not convinced they would spend time to remove the side rivets though, if they were there for some reason when they found this specific flash unit. (since they made quite a few) There are quite a few instances of them just using the equipment as it came too. The V2's lever and block come to mind, and there are probably others. Nobody would be able to see these rivets anyway, I can see there being much bigger problems in the workshop to deal with.
Like I said, there are convincing arguments that they were added for production, but also that they were there originally, for some reason that is beyond me. Just like Han's Mauser with a thick pattern on the upper frame, MPP with a cast shroud, V2 with clamp replacement parts, and Greedo's custom machined barrel, this is just another unique item that adds character for me.
I'd like to add my 2 cents, though it's not much.
I may be wrong, but Halliwax might feel the same way I do. I don't have an opinion fully either way on their source, these extra rivets. The arguments above are very valid, especially needing to reinforce the D ring. I'm not convinced they would spend time to remove the side rivets though, if they were there for some reason when they found this specific flash unit. (since they made quite a few) There are quite a few instances of them just using the equipment as it came too. The V2's lever and block come to mind, and there are probably others. Nobody would be able to see these rivets anyway, I can see there being much bigger problems in the workshop to deal with.
Like I said, there are convincing arguments that they were added for production, but also that they were there originally, for some reason that is beyond me. Just like Han's Mauser with a thick pattern on the upper frame, MPP with a cast shroud, V2 with clamp replacement parts, and Greedo's custom machined barrel, this is just another unique item that adds character for me.
A simple, logical question or two: If there were rivets on the side of the flash tube which were added for some unknown reason in the flashgun’s first life, then why didn’t they just swap the bottom out—or use another flash altogether—when assembling the HERO prop? Why not just downgrade the riveted bottom to backup/stunt duty?
The Elstree doesn’t have the rivets, after all. And that was apparently a failed stunt. Why not just take the bottom from the Elstree and stick it on the other flashgun, when assembling the nicest-looking HERO prop possible?
Answer: The rivets were added by the production for the specific purpose of reinforcing the endcap and d-ring for the rigors of filming.
The Elstree doesn’t have the rivets, after all. And that was apparently a failed stunt. Why not just take the bottom from the Elstree and stick it on the other flashgun, when assembling the nicest-looking HERO prop possible?
Answer: The rivets were added by the production for the specific purpose of reinforcing the endcap and d-ring for the rigors of filming.
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Gerard2567
Well-Known Member
I think he's just saying it probably wasnt super glue. He never suggeated it wasnt a glue.
Besides, it does look a little bit thin streak for a glue.
I've never seen a 40 yr olds super glue, so it could be brown after all those years.
But it could also be araldite which has been around longer than star wars.
AnubisGuard
Master Member
Well, maybe someone from here will win it and they can!
Exactly. I completely agree.
And the fact that this is a tricky thing to achieve might also be the reason that two different rivet sizes were used: they first riveted one side (with 2.4mm rivets) and then the other holes might have been misaligned so they drilled the holes a little wider to align them but then needed a larger set of rivets (3mm) for those holes.
Got a pic to show as an example Roy?
So, I have been doing some photo hunting, and I recently discovered this photo by John Jay which shows both sets of rivets . . . just barely:
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