New Elstree Studio documentary with discarded Graflex.

[Gregatron]

I don’t really see a lot of parts swapping going on, in theory.

Really, what point would it serve?

I think the only real concern would have been with making the hero props—if there were more than one—consistent. Which would mean keeping the knurling on the buttons consistent, basically. That aside, the only other parts used onscreen were a few clamps (on the Kenobi hero and stunt sabers) and the early Folmer thin-knurl button on the Luke FX.

The only onscreen part modifications we know of for sure are the position of the clamp lever, and the upper half of the flash being rotated 180 degrees.


The upper half being rotated is certainly curious, since it appears that way in only one scene, and then again in the post-production photos. I’d guess it comes down to one of two things:

1) Hamill requesting the change so that the bunny ears wouldn’t poke him in any sensitive areas during the scene where Luke sits down inside the Falcon as our heroes escape from Tatooine.

2) Someone decided that the prop would look better that way in photos, since, in that configuration, it “reads” from left to right on its beauty side (the side with the clamp), and is therefore more aesthetically pleasing.

 

[thd9791]

Was this the only broken bubble strip?

Does anyone else see 7 bubbles but a missing flat area in one end of the tunisia saber? This is Scott's photo, I adjusted some levels. I see Obi robe and clamp edges on the emitter side.

 

[SethS]

I don’t really see a lot of parts swapping going on, in theory.

Really, what point would it serve?

I think the only real concern would have been with making the hero props—if there were more than one—consistent. Which would mean keeping the knurling on the buttons consistent, basically. That aside, the only other parts used onscreen were a few clamps (on the Kenobi hero and stunt sabers) and the early Folmer thin-knurl button on the Luke FX.

The only onscreen part modifications we know of for sure are the position of the clamp lever, and the upper half of the flash being rotated 180 degrees.


The upper half being rotated is certainly curious, since it appears that way in only one scene, and then again in the post-production photos. I’d guess it comes down to one of two things:

1) Hamill requesting the change so that the bunny ears wouldn’t poke him in any sensitive areas during the scene where Luke sits down inside the Falcon as our heroes escape from Tatooine.

2) Someone decided that the prop would look better that way in photos, since, in that configuration, it “reads” from left to right on its beauty side (the side with the clamp), and is therefore more aesthetically pleasing.

You were the one that convinced me it WASN’T the toe pic because of the button.

As for parts swapping— it serves the purpose of repairs and completing things for differentnshots. They do it in ESB.

Either way, there’s no tell-tale marks that confirmit to be the toe pic saber. I am can 100% it as production made, but I haven’t seen anything that convinces me it’s the same as anything we already knew existed.

In fact, if the chronicles graflex is the same as the promo/toe pic, we can see from the clamp they aren’t the same. One has an ID number, the other is corroded.

The only real question is how representative is the d-ring of what WAS used on screen.

 

[Gregatron]

Mind you, I’m NOT saying it’s the toe pic saber. Not at all. Just wondering why the upper half was turned around on the onscreen/publicity hero.

Aside from accidental droppage or whatever, I don’t seen much need for them to have swapped out parts. ESB is a different story, since the props were in a ton of scenes, and were exposed to cold, snow, and water.

The ANH version served as a belt-hanger during 90% of its onscreen life, and so the only real damage risks were droppage and exposure to sand.



If the toe pic saber WAS somehow the Elstree saber, then there are four major incongruities:

1) The differences in button knurling.

2) The different d-ring bracket.

3) The lack of the serial number on the Elstree saber.

4) The fact that, when last seen/photographed for the post-production publicity photos, the upper half was rotated 180 degrees (ESB configuration). Yet, when found in the junk pile, the Elstree saber had the opposite, standard onscreen ANH configuration, with the clamp at 9:00, relative to the bulb holder at 12:00.

If the toe pic saber is floating around somewhere, it seems likely that it would still be in the publicity/ESB configuration.

 

[roygilsing]

I'm finally up to speed. So exciting!

I agree with most that has been said.
I am mostly excited about the D-ring. The double pop-rivets (which seem similar to my 3mm rivets) and the brighter clip material, which always stood out in the toe pic.

I do think that if this Elstree saber was made at the same time as the toe pic saber, it is safe to assume they made similar handmade D-ring assemblies on both.

The obvious reason for it to be off center is to fit it nicely and concentric inside the bottom. An esthetical reason. It makes sense they did that on both. Why wouldn't they?
The reason for two rivets might be logical to keep it centered and prevent it from rotating. An additional reason might be related to the softer aluminium clip material, to prevent it from bending up.

Some are thinking that the center rivet position of my CAD model was a result of the comparison with the toe pic and seen as proof, but that's not the case. The image is so blurred that the fastener position was unclear. I based it on Chaim's clip design. I do see the double rivets now if I want to!

The toe pic does seem to have a slightly off center clip, but that can be the result of the clip being slightly lifted from the bottom and the sharp angle of the view point. I can also imagine it being similar to this newly found saber. I will investigate this.

roygilsing, now that you’re here, can you use your old Graflex and d-ring clip model and adjust it to new specs for a slightly off center clip?

YES! I most definitely will do that, but I don't know when I'll have the time. The WannaWanga shop is currently closed because I'm traveling to the middle east (Qatar) for work (I'm working as an industrial design mentor in a Arabic reality TV show). But I will use my free time to work on it.

I want to test the following:

1. Check if my current 3D D-ring fits this Elstree D-ring
2. 3D Model the off center D-ring assembly and match it with the toe pic.
3. Match it with the side view picture to see if it's rotated and can be matched, or that it's proof that the clip is centered in that saber and doesn't match. The D-ring size is crucial.
4. Check if the glue residue aligns with the 7 grips placement.

I do wonder about the dents in the bottom of the Graflex. I noticed the clip has also been damaged, but those look like scratches from pliers. I think it's very well possible those were there already before they purchased them or that it happened in the year after production. Maybe the used it to hammer something for all we know!

Roy

 

[Halliwax]

I'm finally up to speed. So exciting!

I agree with most that has been said.
I am mostly excited about the D-ring. The double pop-rivets (which seem similar to my 3mm rivets) and the brighter clip material, which always stood out in the toe pic.

I do think that if this Elstree saber was made at the same time as the toe pic saber, it is safe to assume they made similar handmade D-ring assemblies on both.

The obvious reason for it to be off center is to fit it nicely and concentric inside the bottom. An esthetical reason. It makes sense they did that on both. Why wouldn't they?
The reason for two rivets might be logical to keep it centered and prevent it from rotating. An additional reason might be related to the softer aluminium clip material, to prevent it from bending up.

Roy

Oh thank goodness

 

[CAKComedyProps]

Can't wait for the comparisons Roy!
Also, when I eventually build myself an anh Graflex I'm going to use the double rivet d-ring because I think it looks awesome.

 

[CAKComedyProps]

Has anyone else noticed the top half of the flash has the earlier folmer graflex pins and other components, but the bottom has a patent stamping?

 

[roygilsing]

Has anyone else noticed the top half of the flash has the earlier folmer graflex pins and other components, but the bottom has a patent stamping?

Yes I (we?) did.

I'm actually thinking of doing a run of D-rings with double rivet aluminium clip!

 

[Anakin Starkiller]

Yes I (we?) did.

I'm actually thinking of doing a run of D-rings with double rivet aluminium clip!

Yes please

 

[Halliwax]

Yes I (we?) did.

I'm actually thinking of doing a run of D-rings with double rivet aluminium clip!

Do it do it do it!!

 

[Gregatron]

Attaboy, Roy! Looking forward to seeing the results of your research. And it would be nice to have a double-rivet clip as an option, in case evidence surfaces indicating that the onscreen hero(es) used a similar configuration.

At the very least, the evidence indicates that the Elstree saber is some kind of unused/prototype stunt FX, and there’s never been a hint of its existence during filming or behind the scenes, until now. Experience has taught me that stunt props can vary wildly from heroes, so I’m not inclined to go all-in and think that this is some kind of Rosetta Stone for the hero prop(s) and how they were constructed.

 

[dcarty]

Has anyone else noticed the top half of the flash has the earlier folmer graflex pins and other components, but the bottom has a patent stamping?

Strictly speaking, the smooth pins and narrow knurling on the button are also consistent with what we see on Folmer Patent Graflexes like this one so there isn't anything unusual about that. Now, if it was a Graflex Inc bottom with smooth pins THAT would be something else.

 

[Gregatron]

We can certainly be sure that a mix of different styles were used by the production. Folmer bottoms, buttons, pins, and glass eyes alongside the full-knurled buttons of later Graflex, Inc. models.

 

[teecrooz]

I put together a rough clip with an old pair of Roy’s rivets just to do some angle analysis for people. Clip lined up like the Elstree clip, and not that it needed to be done, but it confirms the Toe pic clip is more centered. The rivets and clip edge sure look promising to me.

Don’t worry, it’s stuck on with poster adhesive.

Pics are at various angles. Third one is closest to Toe pic angle.

 

[roygilsing]

I put together a rough clip with an old pair of Roy’s rivets just to do some angle analysis for people. Clip lined up like the Elstree clip, and not that it needed to be done, but it confirms the Toe pic clip is more centered, but the rivets and clip edge sure look promising to me.

Don’t worry, it’s stuck on with poster adhesive.

Pics are at various angles. Third one is closest to Toe pic angle.

Great! Now that clears things up! No need for me to do this virtually. (OK, ok, I will do it nonetheless)

 

[PrinceZip]

Roy, will the 2 rivet holes be asymmetrically aligned or idealized and straightened? I kinda want the idealized hole alignment

 

[roygilsing]

Roy, will the 2 rivet holes be asymmetrically aligned or idealized and straightened? I kinda want the idealized hole alignment

I think so. We're not trying to replicate this specific saber. If that's your thing, you might as well cut a piece of foil from a tin can!

 

[jusdrewit]

For those who have perfect graflexes, is that curve natural using the same angle?

View attachment 994291

Just for fun, here is a lightened copy of the above photo.

 

[indignate]

Looks like the toe pic saber has the dring sighlty more centered than the elstree saber. Still not centered but the elstree saber has it more in the Edge.

But what do you think of this other saber in this scene? In a perfect world the image could be better, but its from the making of, not the movie. If that shadow is the dring bracket, this looks very out centered, just like the elstree saber??