New Elstree Studio documentary with discarded Graflex.

[Gregatron]

We should backtrack on this a little bit.

Obviously, we had a lot more reference on the ESB saber for many years. The Wampa cave shot showed two rivets, plain as day. Details on the ANH saber were more scarce for a long time.

The Icons replica followed the ESB prop’s lead by using two rivets on a longer bracket than we now know the props had.

Question is: How and when was the determination made that the bracket had one rivet? What made everyone shift away from the idea of two rivets? I believe the shift occurred between 2001-2005, perhaps when the toe pic came to light, which also led to the discovery of seven grips instead of the generally-accepted six.

 

[Drew Baker]

Two rivets on the tiny Elstree bracket piece seems a bit like overkill, and also goes counter to the Graflex case d-ring theory.

I don't think the Graflex case d-ring theory ever had much of a grounding. As far as I could tell it was a vintage source of d-rings that were sometimes Toe Pic sized and appealingly self-referential, rather than anything based on prop research or evidence. Much like the idea of using Exactra screws to hold on ESB grips.

Two rivets on something as small as the Elstree bracket is surprising, though.

 

[DARTH SABER]

Zoomed in on the high res pic from Graflex bank of Mark Hamill looking down the saber emitter, Im seeing two highlights (rivets?) on the d-ring. Also shown is the zoomed in toe pic that Victor Antonios posted on the Graflex Addicts facebook group. Coincidence that both show highlights resembling double rivets? NOT saying this the same saber as the one just found, but that the hero is using the same style double riveted D ring as the newly discovered stunt.

I wouldnt be surprised if it is 2 rivets.

Makes sense considering one rivet would make the D-ring susceptible to rotating.

 

[Halliwax]

We should backtrack on this a little bit.

Obviously, we had a lot more reference on the ESB saber for many years. The Wampa cave shot showed two rivets, plain as day. Details on the ANH saber were more scarce for a long time.

The Icons replica followed the ESB prop’s lead by using two rivets on a longer bracket than we now know the props had.

Question is: How and when was the determination made that the bracket had one rivet? What made everyone shift away from the idea of two rivets? I believe the shift occurred between 2001-2005, perhaps when the toe pic came to light, which also led to the discovery of seven grips instead of the generally-accepted six.

I always figured 1 rivet because of the toe pic saber... can’t see the head of a screw

 

[The Searcher]

Wow, this thread is already at page four in less than 36 hours!
Eitherways, this thread only helps me justify not getting in on the Graflex game over the last 7 years, because you never know when a new discovery will pop up and make your Graflex inaccurate or even worse, devalues it (for example, having an incorrectly placed rivet).
However, with information like this, I have never been more tempted. I must resist because these things are like Lays: you can’t just have one, and I don’t think my savings could handle it.
Back to the point, great responses and photos everyone! This thread has really brightened up my week so far.

 

[Gregatron]

My significant investment in single rivet ANH D-ring mounts dictates that the answer to the two rivet question MUST be that all other lightsabers, other than the Elstree Graflex, were single rivet D ring mounts.

Hey, I’m game to buy another flash bottom from TGS if it’s determined that the two rivets are for real on the screenused props!

We really should see if Roy can play around with his CAD model to try and experiment with this new version of the bracket.

 

[Halliwax]

I wouldnt be surprised if it is 2 rivets.

Makes sense considering one rivet would make the D-ring susceptible to rotating.

The graflex bottom tube is very thin as well..

Who knows, maybe they ran out of large rivets and this discarded saber was the “different” one who got 2 small rivets

Again.. nothing has been consistent in the Star Wars prop universe

 

[Halliwax]

Hey, I’m game to buy another flash bottom from TGS if it’s determined that the two rivets are for real on the screenused props!

We really should see if Roy can play around with his CAD model to try and experiment with this new version of the bracket.

TGS has the correct stamped bottoms?!

 

[Gregatron]

It occurs to me that this might well become a dreaded new “screws vs. rivets”-type debate.

“One rivet or two?”

 

[DARTH SABER]

We should backtrack on this a little bit.

Obviously, we had a lot more reference on the ESB saber for many years. The Wampa cave shot showed two rivets, plain as day. Details on the ANH saber were more scarce for a long time.

The Icons replica followed the ESB prop’s lead by using two rivets on a longer bracket than we now know the props had.

Question is: How and when was the determination made that the bracket had one rivet? What made everyone shift away from the idea of two rivets? I believe the shift occurred between 2001-2005, perhaps when the toe pic came to light, which also led to the discovery of seven grips instead of the generally-accepted six.

Re-inventing Lukes ANH Lightsaber- And Vaders too??!?!

[emoji106]

 

[Halliwax]

It occurs to me that this might well become a dreaded new “screws vs. rivets”-type debate.

“One rivet or two?”

Bring it on baby! I live for this!

 

[Halliwax]

Re-inventing Lukes ANH Lightsaber- And Vaders too??!?!

[emoji106]

Damn photobucket to hell...

 

[Gregatron]

TGS has the correct stamped bottoms?!

TGS has the Folmer stamping. Which seems to me a likely candidate for the toe pic prop, since it has the Folmer eye.

 

[DARTH SABER]

The graflex bottom tube is very thin as well..

Who knows, maybe they ran out of large rivets and this discarded saber was the “different” one who got 2 small rivets

Again.. nothing has been consistent in the Star Wars prop universe

The way mine is attached (hex screw) had always given me issues with rotating.
Luckily i never wear my ANH saber. Its pretty much just on display.

 

[Halliwax]

TGS has the Folmer stamping. Which seems to me a likely candidate for the toe pic prop, since it has the Folmer eye.

Aaahhh you had me panicking there lol, I want to replicate this exact discarded saber (Mitchell saber)

But we don’t have the correct replica bottoms.. if we did I’d have a nice dagobah saber too

 

[Gregatron]

The graflex bottom tube is very thin as well..

Who knows, maybe they ran out of large rivets and this discarded saber was the “different” one who got 2 small rivets

Again.. nothing has been consistent in the Star Wars prop universe

Something else to consider: If this was a failed attempt at a stunt FX saber, why would they even bother making sure that the d-ring was so secured? Since it wouldn’t be used as a belt-hanger, then the d-ring would just be a cosmetic feature to make it look like the hero props.

 

[Gregatron]

The way mine is attached (hex screw) had always given me issues with rotating.
Luckily i never wear my ANH saber. Its pretty much just on display.

For the record, my TGS is riveted, and I’ve had no issues at all with bracket rotation. It’s very solid.

 

[Halliwax]

Something else to consider: If this was a failed attempt at a stunt FX saber, why would they even bother making sure that the d-ring was so secured? Since it wouldn’t be used as a belt-hanger, then the d-ring would just be a cosmetic feature to make it look like the hero props.

Pretty sure the FX stunts were done by another team (john stears)

I believe and don’t hold me to this. Roger went to his friends shop “Shaw” and they assembled the sabers and shipped them out, John Stears was the man in charge of making the actual stunt sabers

I think stears got this saber sent to him completed

He couldn’t get it to work the way the wanted so he made the motorized stunts out of tube

This is the problem in this hobby.. there are more hands in the engine bay then 2... different teams, different prop houses.. this is why there are so many “stunt blade” stories... trail and error, one team did this, sent it out, the second team got it, it didn’t work, they modified it..

Both teams today claim they did X, they aren’t lying, but what we see on screen isn’t one of them..

 

[DARTH SABER]

For the record, my TGS is riveted, and I’ve had no issues at all with bracket rotation. It’s very solid.

Mine.
Its about 15 years old.
Was planning on redoing the grips with the plastic versions.

 

[Halliwax]

For the record, my TGS is riveted, and I’ve had no issues at all with bracket rotation. It’s very solid.

No doubt. When you rivet it correctly it will hold like iron. If rivets were known to fail I’d never fly again lol

But we have to take into account other scenarios.. what’s the metal they used to fold over the d ring? Is it a soft metal?

I’m a carpenter by trade, I make my own aluminum gutters on every house we build. (hence why I have all those sheet metal tools in the last video I did) I also build all of our own heating and air conditioning ducts.. my fathers race car we built and raced in the 90s I was 10 years old and riveted every rivet in that chassis, over 13,000.. trust me when I say I have had experience with rivets lol it was a air rivet gun though! I could have never done that all by hand.. to heck with that..

But what I’m trying to explain is, if the metal is thin or soft..the rivet is as strong as the weakest link

Heck, maybe the single rivet head was too big?! The tab they made was smaller then the other tabs? So they opted for 2 small rivets

Those will move if wiggled.. these sabers were meant to clip and unclip off the belt.

It just amazes me the hack job they did fabricating that d ring.. jaggered edge.. I’d be afraid of hurting a actor..

Don’t confuse my posts for fighting for every belt hanger on screen having 2 rivets.. I’m up in the air still

It’s times like this that price the placebo effect.. we’ve had this pictures for how many years and never saw double rivets, until yesterday when this new discovery was made, now everyone sees double rivets

But is my eyes seeing double rivets? Or is my mind telling me what I see...

I need more proof, BUT I sure do want double rivets on my Mitchell replica!!