My Luke ROTJ hero sabers are being recast by 89 sabers

[BTTUK]

This is sad to hear. I suppose it's hand in hand with this...exodus to Facebook that seems to be sort of diluting the hobby. Bleh!

Don't get me wrong there are some wonderful people who showed and still show up. Especially those within the Proffieboard page on FB, who take a lot of time to help everyone with their Proffie issues.

 

[SethS]

Man, this was made me feel six years old and mommy and daddy were fighting.

 

[BRRogers]

Man, this was made me feel six years old and mommy and daddy were fighting.

I hate to see conflict. But this should highlight at least *why* the mommy and daddy are fighting which is an issue to work together to resolve as a family.

But yeah the saber market exploded when the neopixel tech became available and now very cool, bright, hi tech sound sabers are more accessible than ever. The old arguments and proofs about stolen IPs get lost and not only do the recasters find new and abundant clientele they don’t need those old venues. It’s a problem that they don’t care and have no need to

 

[thd9791]

I'm really happy this specific issue got resolved. I agree that there is a larger issue at play, and it sounds simple but I don't think anyone in this community should argue over the technicalities of using anyone else's work. I've seen recast arguments go into whataboutism rather quickly and the one thing missing from all of those arguments is a foundation of respect for one another. Without that, you have leverage to do whatever you want.

I'm willing to boycott distributors and makers that either recast or knowingly continue to distribute it.

I don't know the answer on the community. Scalpers ruin it for people. Recasters lurk and ruin this for people.

 

[Triin]

I hate to see conflict. But this should highlight at least *why* the mommy and daddy are fighting which is an issue to work together to resolve as a family.

Exactly.

 

[Dumog]

There is also the issue of supply, 89sabers is filling a void in supply. I would like the buy a luke V1 or V2 but there is none available anywhere , unless i wait for a reputable member to put one up for sale or attempt to buy one on the highly scam filled facebook. I cant find one cause the runs are limited. So i'm stuck waiting for hopefully a new run or waiting for someone like Roman to restock. Thats why a lot of people might buy from 89sabers even with their reputation. I would never purchase one of their sabers especially after reading this thread but just saying why some might.

 

[Triin]

So what you are saying is .. you can’t buy an apple phone from apple... so you go and buy a repop from China because you have to have it now instead of waiting for them to make another run of them?
sorry it almost sounds like you are condoning what 89sabers is doing.

edit-
Really the point is to support the ones doing the research and all the time it takes to manufacture something from the source. Even if it means waiting for another possible run. Anything other than that just dilutes the work involved.

 

[Anakin Starkiller]

There is also the issue of supply, 89sabers is filling a void in supply. I would like the buy a luke V1 or V2 but there is none available anywhere , unless i wait for a reputable member to put one up for sale or attempt to buy one on the highly scam filled facebook. I cant find one cause the runs are limited. So i'm stuck waiting for hopefully a new run or waiting for someone like Roman to restock. Thats why a lot of people might buy from 89sabers even with their reputation. I would never purchase one of their sabers especially after reading this thread but just saying why some might.

That's kinda a test of character then, isn't it?
If people can't figure out what to do when they see, on one hand there's a guy who put his heart and soul and ten years worth of design work into creating product, but he's currently is sold out and won't be able to restock for months, and on the other hand there's a guy who's know for ripping people off and he has the them for sale now, and they don't know what to do... then I can't really help them I suppose.

 

[BRRogers]

Dumog are you saying "One might like to buy" instead of "I would like to buy"?

Just trying to avoid an argument in semantics

 

[Anakin Starkiller]

Dumog are you saying "One might like to buy" instead of "I would like to buy"?

Just trying to avoid an argument in semantics

I took him to be saying "One"

 

[Triin]

Let’s hope he means “one might like to buy”

 

[BRRogers]

I took him to be saying "One"

Me too: the RPF is a place of intense analytical debate in all forms ^_^

 

[Dumog]

I'm more saying that people new to the saber community are are looking to buy sabers and when you search online to try to find sabers the only ones that seem to be available to find are 89sabers. Up until seeing this post I would have considered buying from them so I appreciate that this information is out there, we just need to be careful with calling out the good ones and focus more on the bad ones, like korbanth and saberbay. Especially on facebook like thin-neck or other groups cause people there generally see the post and never revisit and that could remove business from the good suppliers and drive it to the bad ones.

 

[Pedro]

I hate to see conflict. But this should highlight at least *why* the mommy and daddy are fighting which is an issue to work together to resolve as a family.

Top ten life lesson here for anyone who's married/involved - There will be conflict, period. This is not fighting. Work together, the good of the other is good for you!! I wish more parents "fought" the way this went down. Ok, back to the scheduled programming...

Dumog that's essentially what I was saying. If someone newly comes to the hobby, or even have been around for years like me, it's not readily apparent that there's so much plagiarism going on.

 

[BRRogers]

I'm more saying that people new to the saber community are are looking to buy sabers and when you search online to try to find sabers the only ones that seem to be available to find are 89sabers. Up until seeing this post I would have considered buying from them so I appreciate that this information is out there, we just need to be careful with calling out the good ones and focus more on the bad ones, like korbanth and saberbay. Especially on facebook like thin-neck or other groups cause people there generally see the post and never revisit and that could remove business from the good suppliers and drive it to the bad ones.

Thanks for clarifying: your experience and viewpoint coming into the lightsaber realm as a new consumer/ prospective buyer is exactly why the issue needs to be re-magnified for those who actually want to be informed.

Top ten life lesson here for anyone who's married/involved - There will be conflict, period. This is not fighting. Work together, the good of the other is good for you!! I wish more parents "fought" the way this went down. Ok, back to the scheduled programming...

amen

 

[thd9791]

Actually, thank you Dumog its good to hear new viewpoints. I had a feeling about this lately - that a lot of new people are just here to buy. They would be better sorting out good companies like Roman Props and Blaster Factory, wannawanga, etc. who are functioning at a high enough capacity to help one-stop shoppers.

Runs on here are supposed to be limited because it's usually one person putting a crap ton of effort into making something to exact specifications, and sharing that with a healthy amount of people. They're not meant to be a storefront. They are MUCH more rewarding, and I bet a lot of people see the results from these runs and want in, but they need to understand what a run is compared to an in-stock item in a store.

 

[Dumog]

Actually, thank you Dumog its good to hear new viewpoints. I had a feeling about this lately - that a lot of new people are just here to buy. They would be better sorting out good companies like Roman Props and Blaster Factory, wannawanga, etc. who are functioning at a high enough capacity to help one-stop shoppers.

Runs on here are supposed to be limited because it's usually one person putting a crap ton of effort into making something to exact specifications, and sharing that with a healthy amount of people. They're not meant to be a storefront. They are MUCH more rewarding, and I bet a lot of people see the results from these runs and want in, but they need to understand what a run is compared to an in-stock item in a store.

Yes absolutely! Even to a novice like me I can see the attention to detail that are in the "limited edition" "exclusive" runs is far beyond anything else that's out there. Problem that arose for me tho is that I would love to be able to buy many of those sabers that are just not available anymore and I have no idea when/if they would ever be again. Since they are limited and its impossible to know if there is gonna be another run I'm kinda stuck settling for 2nd rate sabers or waiting to catch a random member sale. Even getting info in the saber community has been incredibly daunting, the rebel armory for a novice is virtually impossible to navigate and the facebook communities are more about showing your collections then learning or finding out about the sabers themselves. Its been a pleasure tho figuring out things bit by bit. Just wish there was more options out there that weren't in the "limited" category, then at least my wife can buy me a Christmas or birthday present that I would enjoy! Lol

 

[BRRogers]

For the record: At least on our part... efforts are being made to bring production on lightsabers out of China and into European/American factories willing to run projects but the overhead is (understandably) more. Being able to do so would limit a lot of the cross-pollination that occurs in the back channels that we've been seeing- things popping up on AliBaba etc... We're hoping that runs from theRPF can find a safer home with reputable and trustworthy vendors that aren't ensnared in trying to satisfy a completely different market. Hopefully more to work for/share regarding that in the near future and happy to invite people into that ride when the time comes.

Yes absolutely! Even to a novice like me I can see the attention to detail that are in the "limited edition" "exclusive" runs is far beyond anything else that's out there. Problem that arose for me tho is that I would love to be able to buy many of those sabers that are just not available anymore and I have no idea when/if they would ever be again. Since they are limited and its impossible to know if there is gonna be another run I'm kinda stuck settling for 2nd rate sabers or waiting to catch a random member sale. Even getting info in the saber community has been incredibly daunting, the rebel armory for a novice is virtually impossible to navigate and the facebook communities are more about showing your collections then learning or finding out about the sabers themselves. Its been a pleasure tho figuring out things bit by bit. Just wish there was more options out there that weren't in the "limited" category, then at least my wife can buy me a Christmas or birthday present that I would enjoy! Lol

welcome to the challenge! Honestly the facebook groups are way more helpful than TRA I agree. I won't get into some the other issues belittling the TRA forums.

Even if you can find one well informed person who has time to answer questions , and is nice.... well that's probably what would be most helpful.

I'd be happy to chat. feel free to PM me. I also know a lot of people at that point!

Suffice to say though, sometimes it IS worth it to wait for the right one... or the next one in the collection

 

[Ghost neverdie]

For the record: At least on our part... efforts are being made to bring production on lightsabers out of China and into European/American factories willing to run projects but the overhead is (understandably) more.

Completely agree with your point of view.

In the lightsaber market in China, almost no one knows what happened here, they only care if they can buy a good and cheap fx lightsaber.

Although most people don't know it, in my opinion, the culprit of all this is the manufacturers that make people generate poor information and steal other people's technological achievements from rpf.

Just yesterday, 89saber appeared on the lightsaber forum in China to defend himself. In the comments below, it is completely different from foreign voices. Everyone speaks for 89. Because in China, if you don't please him, it is equivalent to not getting the lightsaber he produced.It will also treat you the same way as customers on fb-delay delivery indefinitely.

There are still people who are deceiving themselves and are unwilling to recognize reality. It also let me know how much people can care about their dignity for money.

 

[DaveP]

I have a lot of respect for both Daniel and Kahl, so this has not been an enjoyable read. I understand Dan's frustration, having had my own work re-cast. I also think Kahl has done the honourable thing in taking them down and offering to help.

I've seen comments on Facebook basically saying "what's the big deal"? "You've copied someone elses work, so why can't people copy yours"?

This totally misses the point of why we do what we do. For me, it's about fulfilling the desire to see/handle/own pieces of movie history. These objects are important. They really are. They hold a genuinely special place in people's hearts. They do in mine at least, which is why I put a great deal of effort in to replicating them as closely as humanly possible. I want to be able to pick these things up and feel as though I've plucked them straight out of the screen.

This requires weeks/months/years of obsessive research, digging in to history and manufacturing techniques. Not to mention the work involved in generating the models, sourcing parts and materials, etc. It's a LOT of work.

So of course, when some unscrupulous individual gets in on one of your runs, so that they can spend an afternoon taking measurements, then miraculously comes out with a product "of their own", it is disappointing and infuriating.

To be honest though, this is what I do for fun. As much as I disapprove of it being done, there really is very little I or anyone else can do to stop it. And I refuse to allow the actions of these people to bring drama and resentment in to something that I love.

It's absolutely necessary to call out these re-casters so that people can make informed decisions, and I'll be taking care not to sell to anyone I know to have been involved in re-casting, but other than that, I'm going to try not to loose too much sleep over it.

As you might know, I am VERY open about my work and research. A little too open perhaps. I think it's important to show your working out though. That's what separates us from those who rip off the work of others. It would be a crying shame to have to operate behind closed doors. I just feel that that goes against everything this community stands for. It's about sharing/learning from one another.

As much as it increases the risk of being copied, sharing the process also serves to authenticate the work as being original, as well as demonstrating it's accuracy to the original prop.

For me that's a fair trade. If people want to buy cheap knock-offs, then they get what they pay for. They're NEVER made to the same standard as those they're ripping off. Perhaps they're good enough for those who aren't serious collectors? To be honest though, I'm more interested in making things for People who share my passion for the source material and attention to detail.

Anyway, just thought I'd chime in with my thoughts on the re-casting situation. It does suck, and it's morally reprehensible. We should be aware of it and make others aware of it by calling it out, but I'm resigned to the fact that it's going to happen, and there's very little that can be done to stop it.