Lets talk all things Star Wars

[sztriki]

E-mail me if you want a pizza roll. I’ll send it through my webzone.

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

For the PT and the OT, I feel everything gels together very well. It has been my experience that the people who have an issue with some of the details is that they have a lot of preconceived notions of how thing were supposed to be or play out. I noticed that they make a lot of assumptions taking things said in one movie a certain way rather than being open minded that it could mean something else.

I think the ancient prophecy refers to balance being both Light and Dark. But the Clone Wars era Jedi may have interpreted it as only or mostly Light and no or little Dark. The ancient Jedi seem to have viewed the Force very differently then the Clone Wars era Jedi.

Yoda and Mace discussed the possibility that the prophecy could have been misinterpreted which means that there could be some possibilities of interpretation issues. As I mentioned in previous post about the Jedi had been in a state of imbalance before the Sith due to being a political tool and egos. I believe that in regards to the prophecy of a chosen one to bring balance to the Force, the Jedi considered themselves perfect so the chosen one would fix something else. It is like those episodes of Bar Rescue. The owner calls in Jon Taffer to help his bar because of all the problems and then the owner finds out, he himself is the real problem.

In a way, the prophecy turns out to be like someone who wishes from a genie that humpback whales would not go extinct, so the genie wipes out all humans. Whales saved!

And the prophecy effects all beings. Jedi and sith may feel it and control it, but the Force effects everything and anyone. All inhabitants would benefit from a galaxy in balance.

 

[Bigdaddy]

I thought the story was recently retconned showing that Palpatine actually created Anakin, which would seem to imply that the chosen one was just snake oil being sold by the Jedi order.
Regardless, the OT and the PT do tell a complete story without all the ancillary material. It just makes the Jedi out to be hubris ridden fools that caused their own destruction.

 

[Psab keel]

While the overall plot for the PT was clear (the rise and fall of Anakin) I felt it was poorly executed because Lucas kept changing his mind about the saga all the time. If you don't believe me, just look at all the changes he made for every single release of the OT and even some changes made to the PT.

Often the reason many fans get annoyed is because certain ideas that are established in earlier chapters are changed in later chapters. Sure everyone had a theory about how things would play out but it doesn't negate the creator's indecision. Not to mention I read all the spoilers for each movie so I knew what was going to happen effectively zapping any theories I had.

I respect that it was the story George wanted to tell, and that some people loved it, I just didn't care for it. To each their own.

 

[Joek3rr]

I thought the story was recently retconned showing that Palpatine actually created Anakin, which would seem to imply that the chosen one was just snake oil being sold by the Jedi order.
Regardless, the OT and the PT do tell a complete story without all the ancillary material. It just makes the Jedi out to be hubris ridden fools that caused their own destruction.

I don't think it's a retcon. There's definitely a hint that either Palpatine or Plagueis was involved it Anakin's creation in Revenge of the Sith. That look Palpatine gives him when he says that Plagueis could manipulate the midi-chlorians to even create life, says it all. Which means Palpatine wasn't trying to be all grandfatherly when he calls him son.

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

I don't think it's a retcon. There's definitely a hint that either Palpatine or Plagueis was involved it Anakin's creation in Revenge of the Sith. That look Palpatine gives him when he says that Plagueis could manipulate the midi-chlorians to even create life, says it all. Which means Palpatine wasn't trying to be all grandfatherly when he calls him son.

He’s talking about the recent comic that confirmed it was Palpatine.

It’s poetic that in Palpatine’s attempt for more power and control, his creation turned out to be the chosen one and brought an end to his reign.

 

[sztriki]

There’s a scene in Groundhog Day when Bill Murray is trying to save a dying old homeless man and calls him “dad”. Then some people were convinced that it was his actual father. I guess if there was a Groundhog Day expanded universe there would be a novel revealing that it indeed was...

 

[Jaitea]

I remember when Star Wars was cool & Star Trek was nerdy

J

 

[Bigdaddy]

He’s talking about the recent comic that confirmed it was Palpatine.

It’s poetic that in Palpatine’s attempt for more power and control, his creation turned out to be the chosen one and brought an end to his reign.

See to me it indicates there never was a chosen one. That the Jedi order bought into a "prophecy" that wasn't true. It could even be surmised that Papa Palpy purposefully used the Jedi's dogmatic thinking to manipulate them into believing they had found their chosen one only to have him slaughter the order.
Anakin apparently never did bring balance to the Force anyway since the galaxy remained a hot mess for 30 years (according to the ST). If he didn't complete the prophecy, it seems like he never was the "chosen one" or the prophecy was s**t from the get go.
Palpy has been Anakin's dad in my "head canon" since I saw ROTS, it made way more sense to me than the story the Jedi were telling in the PT.
I got shot down about that theory on the RPF in the past but now that it's part of the official story fans just gobble it up.

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

See to me it indicates there never was a chosen one. That the Jedi order bought into a "prophecy" that wasn't true. It could even be surmised that Papa Palpy purposefully used the Jedi's dogmatic thinking to manipulate them into believing they had found their chosen one only to have him slaughter the order.
Anakin apparently never did bring balance to the Force anyway since the galaxy remained a hot mess for 30 years (according to the ST). If he didn't complete the prophecy, it seems like he never was the "chosen one" or the prophecy was s**t from the get go.
Palpy has been Anakin's dad in my "head canon" since I saw ROTS, it made way more sense to me than the story the Jedi were telling in the PT.
I got shot down about that theory on the RPF in the past but now that it's part of the official story fans just gobble it up.

View attachment 1039096

It doesn’t matter how the chosen one came into existence. In fact, it would make sense that special circumstances were involved in order to create someone as powerful as the chosen one. After all, it was thought impossible for someone to return from the dark side.

Also, the years that followed Return of the Jedi, are more about political unrest, not imbalance in the Force. Just because you have a balanced force does not mean everyone is going to get along.

 

[Halliwax]

There’s a scene in Groundhog Day when Bill Murray is trying to save a dying old homeless man and calls him “dad”. Then some people were convinced that it was his actual father. I guess if there was a Groundhog Day expanded universe there would be a novel revealing that it indeed was...

Love the toaster scene in that movie...

 

[Bigdaddy]

It doesn’t matter how the chosen one came into existence. In fact, it would make sense that special circumstances were involved in order to create someone as powerful as the chosen one. After all, it was thought impossible for someone to return from the dark side.

Also, the years that followed Return of the Jedi, are more about political unrest, not imbalance in the Force. Just because you have a balanced force does not mean everyone is going to get along.

The only reason for the audience to believe there is a chosen one at all, is because the Jedi said there is. Of course they are shown in the films to be mistaken....about a great many things.
So within the context of the saga films, the audience is left with a group of inept Jedi that constantly screw up and mislead others (purposefully) and we're supposed to believe a "Jedi" prophecy? Personally it doesn't work for me. it's clear (to me) the PT jedi aren't to be trusted, thus the prophecy is either bunk or they were fooled by Palpatine.
After ROTJ the most powerful force user we've ever seen on screen emerged from... somewhere? Snoke looked like he'd been hanging around for quite a while, and Ben was with him for what like 15 years or something? So it seems incredibly unlikely that Vader tossing his dad down that shaft actually did anything but save Luke and the rebellion.
Keep in mind I've never read the books or comics, or watched any of the shows except the original clone wars series.
I view the OT as a standalone, beginning middle, end. I'm not a fan of the PT but I do enjoy trying to make them fit the story (though poorly written) by using mental gymnastics.

 

[Joek3rr]

It doesn’t matter how the chosen one came into existence. In fact, it would make sense that special circumstances were involved in order to create someone as powerful as the chosen one. After all, it was thought impossible for someone to return from the dark side.

Also, the years that followed Return of the Jedi, are more about political unrest, not imbalance in the Force. Just because you have a balanced force does not mean everyone is going to get along.

The only reason for the audience to believe there is a chosen one at all, is because the Jedi said there is. Of course they are shown in the films to be mistaken....about a great many things.
So within the context of the saga films, the audience is left with a group of inept Jedi that constantly screw up and mislead others (purposefully) and we're supposed to believe a "Jedi" prophecy? Personally it doesn't work for me. it's clear (to me) the PT jedi aren't to be trusted, thus the prophecy is either bunk or they were fooled by Palpatine.
After ROTJ the most powerful force user we've ever seen on screen emerged from... somewhere? Snoke looked like he'd been hanging around for quite a while, and Ben was with him for what like 15 years or something? So it seems incredibly unlikely that Vader tossing his dad down that shaft actually did anything but save Luke and the rebellion.
Keep in mind I've never read the books or comics, or watched any of the shows except the original clone wars series.
I view the OT as a standalone, beginning middle, end. I'm not a fan of the PT but I do enjoy trying to make them fit the story (though poorly written) by using mental gymnastics.

I think maybe it's high time I post all the prophecies from Master and Apprentice.

‘She who will be born to darkness will give birth to darkness.’

‘When the kyber that is not kyber shines forth, the time of prophecy will be at hand.’

‘One will ascend to the highest of the Jedi despite the foreboding of those who would serve with him.’

‘He who learns to conquer death will through his greatest student live again.’

‘Only through sacrifice of many Jedi will the Order cleanse the sin done to the nameless.’

‘The danger of the past is not past, but sleeps in an egg. When the egg cracks, it will threaten the galaxy entire.’

‘When the Force itself sickens, past and future must split and combine.’

And the one that pertains the most to our discussion.

A Chosen One shall come, born of no father, and through him will ultimate balance in the Force be restored.


What I'm wondering about is where did the Jedi get the notion that the Chosen One would destroy the Sith? I'm not seeing anything that would suggest that. Though it possible, depending on how old the prophecy is, that the Sith didn't exist at the time it was given.

Now on to if Anakin brought balance to the Force at the ROTJ. The answer is he did. Luke says in TLJ that for a time there was balance in the Force. "For many years there was balance, then I saw Ben." So while Anakin brought balance to the Force, it wasn't ultimate balance. This is why I believe Anakin will return, and along with Padme, will bring ultimate balance. But it could be that Ben will bring the ultimate balance. Some prophecies can have a sort of dual fulfillment.

 

[Bigdaddy]

I never read any of that before....uhg, it sounds like bad fan fiction. I tried reading a SW book once, Heir to the empire (I think). I couldn't get past the first chapter, I just found the writing really bad.

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

What I'm wondering about is where did the Jedi get the notion that the Chosen One would destroy the Sith? I'm not seeing anything that would suggest that. Though it possible, depending on how old the prophecy is, that the Sith didn't exist at the time it was given.

According to Wookieepedia canon...

As foretold in a Jedi prophecy,[1] the Chosen One would bring about the destruction of the Sith and the restoration of balance in the Force.[4] However, the Sith were all but destroyed by themselves,[6] leading the Jedi Order to believe that their ancient rivals no longer posed a threat to the galaxy.[1] But in the aftermath of the Sith's near destruction, Darth Baneemerged as the last survivor and ultimately chose to pass hisknowledge to a single apprentice, thereby forming the Rule of Two[6] that would limit the Sith ranks to two—a Sith Master and an apprentice—for the next thousand years.[1]

 

[Joek3rr]

According to Wookieepedia canon...

And that's what I find really interesting. Prior to Revenge of the Sith destroying the Sith wasn't a part of the prophecy. And now we have that prophecy actually spelled out, and there's nothing about the Chosen One destroying the Sith.......

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

I think the ancient prophecy refers to balance being both Light and Dark. But the Clone Wars era Jedi may have interpreted it as only or mostly Light and no or little Dark. The ancient Jedi seem to have viewed the Force very differently then the Clone Wars era Jedi.

I don't think they actually ever say how old the prophecy is in either EU or canon do they? I mean if the Jedi had been feeling their ability to use the Force diminishing prior to when Mace tells Yoda that in AOTC, then they really did have their heads up their *sses! That should have been a major warning that the Sith were back before they encountered Darth Maul!

See to me it indicates there never was a chosen one. That the Jedi order bought into a "prophecy" that wasn't true. It could even be surmised that Papa Palpy purposefully used the Jedi's dogmatic thinking to manipulate them into believing they had found their chosen one only to have him slaughter the order.
Anakin apparently never did bring balance to the Force anyway since the galaxy remained a hot mess for 30 years (according to the ST). If he didn't complete the prophecy, it seems like he never was the "chosen one" or the prophecy was s**t from the get go.
Palpy has been Anakin's dad in my "head canon" since I saw ROTS, it made way more sense to me than the story the Jedi were telling in the PT.
I got shot down about that theory on the RPF in the past but now that it's part of the official story fans just gobble it up.

Lucas said that Anakin does fulfill the prophecy when he chucks Palpatine down the shaft in ROTJ. I do agree that Sidious was all over the Jedi and using their dogma against them. That's why they never saw it coming. Yoda also backs that up somewhat when he says the Jedi are becoming arrogant, like they're believing they're omniscient and infallible. Say what you will about the Prequels, but I think the way they laid out how the Sith planned out a 1,000 year plan to take out the Jedi was pretty masterful. That's one thing I'd like to ask Lucas is whether Jango Fett knew about the use for the clones. On one hand, I don't think Sidious would let that big of a secret slip. On the other hand, if Jango's background is canon (?) where he was the one of or the last survivor of a Jedi attack which killed most of the Mandalorian warriors, it would make sense for him to wholeheartedly support Sidious' goal. It also makes it more chilling when he tells Obi Wan "They'll do their job well."

I was looking for a pic from AOTC the other day and I came across this pic of the Jedi extras from the arena. You can tell the girl is a fan because she's just staring at her lightsaber and grinning like "I got a lightsaber!" and the other guy is like "She's doing it again isn't she?"

 

[Mara Jade's Father]

And that's what I find really interesting. Prior to Revenge of the Sith destroying the Sith wasn't a part of the prophecy. And now we have that prophecy actually spelled out, and there's nothing about the Chosen One destroying the Sith.......

That’s where I think the line about interpretation is important. We don’t know what the original source is. I think the core information from the original source was that a chosen one would restore balance to the force. I believe it was the Jedi who made an assumption in expressing that the only possible way imbalance could occur was if it was caused by sith. Not even considering the fact that it was possible for some other cause or even the Jedi themselves.

It’s like if a fortune teller tells you that you will spend the rest of your life surrounded by luxury. So you conclude you will be rich and successful. But then it turns out some crazy zillionaire captured you and put you in a cage in the middle of his mansion. Prediction comes true, Just not your interpretation.

 

[Joek3rr]

I don't think they actually ever say how old the prophecy is in either EU or canon do they? I mean if the Jedi had been feeling their ability to use the Force diminishing prior to when Mace tells Yoda that in AOTC, then they really did have their heads up their *sses! That should have been a major warning that the Sith were back before they encountered Darth Maul!





Lucas said that Anakin does fulfill the prophecy when he chucks Palpatine down the shaft in ROTJ. I do agree that Sidious was all over the Jedi and using their dogma against them. That's why they never saw it coming. Yoda also backs that up somewhat when he says the Jedi are becoming arrogant, like they're believing they're omniscient and infallible. Say what you will about the Prequels, but I think the way they laid out how the Sith planned out a 1,000 year plan to take out the Jedi was pretty masterful. That's one thing I'd like to ask Lucas is whether Jango Fett knew about the use for the clones. On one hand, I don't think Sidious would let that big of a secret slip. On the other hand, if Jango's background is canon (?) where he was the one of or the last survivor of a Jedi attack which killed most of the Mandalorian warriors, it would make sense for him to wholeheartedly support Sidious' goal. It also makes it more chilling when he tells Obi Wan "They'll do their job well."

I was looking for a pic from AOTC the other day and I came across this pic of the Jedi extras from the arena. You can tell the girl is a fan because she's just staring at her lightsaber and grinning like "I got a lightsaber!" and the other guy is like "She's doing it again isn't she?"

View attachment 1039131

George said the Fett's are not Mandalorian.

I'd imagine he'd guess that his clones were going to be used for something nefarious. I mean he's hired by the leader of the Confederacy of Independent Systems, to be the template for the clone Grand Army of the Republic.


Haha that's great picture! I'd lose my mind if was an extra on a Star Wars film!

 

[Psab keel]

I think maybe it's high time I post all the prophecies from Master and Apprentice.

‘She who will be born to darkness will give birth to darkness.’ redundant

‘When the kyber that is not kyber shines forth, the time of prophecy will be at hand.’ So why even mention the Kyber?

‘One will ascend to the highest of the Jedi despite the foreboding of those who would serve with him.’

‘He who learns to conquer death will through his greatest student live again.’

‘Only through sacrifice of many Jedi will the Order cleanse the sin done to the nameless.’ piss poor

‘The danger of the past is not past, but sleeps in an egg. When the egg cracks, it will threaten the galaxy entire.’ This might just be the worst one

‘When the Force itself sickens, past and future must split and combine.’ This makes no sense whatsoever

And the one that pertains the most to our discussion.

A Chosen One shall come, born of no father, and through him will ultimate balance in the Force be restored.
.

That was just painful to read. It sounds like the kind of garbage I tried writing when I was a teenager. Just plain awful! They don't even sound remotely cool. They are just bland statements made to sound like cheap riddles.

While I loved the Thrawn trilogy growing up and have met the man himself, who I think is a great writer, I read an excerpt of the new Zahn novel and it was just terrible. I honestly had to reread it because I couldn't believe it. I can't believe his editors would let that crap go to print. It was amatuerish at best. Not something I would expect from a professional who has written New York Times best sellers.

As far as the prophecy goes it would have been helpful to know more about it (in the films themselves). Who wrote it? When did they write it? What does balance even mean?

It's just a mess to me. oh well. lol