I think part of that is true, but I would bet that if you plopped down a box of action figures or LEGO blocks in front a of a kid, they would ditch the electronics for that.
Lets talk all things Star Wars
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I think part of that is true, but I would bet that if you plopped down a box of action figures or LEGO blocks in front a of a kid, they would ditch the electronics for that.
Riceball
Master Member
The thing is with making toys based on franchises is that it's not just the cost of making the toys that's involved, there's also licensing fees involved. Hasbro, Kenner, Mattel, etc. can't simply make toys based on whatever franchise they want, they have to get permission from the franchise owner in the form of a license first. Then, and only then can they make toys based on an existing IP, but these licenses don't come for free and often not cheap either nor is it unheard of for the IP owner to ask for a slice of the profits too.
At the end of the day, if you start seeing an overall decline in toys sale, would you, as a CEO of a very large company with stockholders to please, and hundreds, if not thousands of people to pay, want to spend more money getting a license to produce things that are declining more in sales every year? Do you really think that would be a wise way of spending your company's money or would you start shifting to something else before the bottom falls out completely? And don't forget, the core business of these big toy companies is not to make toys, their core business is the exact same as every other major corporation out there and that's to make money. The only difference between a Hasbro or Kenner and a corporation like Microsoft or a movie studio like Paramount is how they make their money but at the end of the day, they're all in the business of making money and if their original business model is not making them money or looks like it won't be making them much money any more, they change their business model or they risk going belly up.
Riceball
Master Member
I's say that would be more like if you took away their XBox, phone, or tablet and plopped down some Lego or action figures would then play with them. Even then, there would more than a few of them who'd either get bored of them really fast or simply not know what to do with them.
I will admit that Lego are still hugely popular these days, thanks in no small part to Lego sets based on well known and popular IPs like Star Wars and Harry Potter. But even then, how many kids, if given a set of Lego with no directions, would know what to do with them? I strongly suspect that a good majority of them would be lost without at least box art to try to show them what can be built.
...when???!!! We need to talk...
VanPersie
Well-Known Member
But if 8 year olds are not interested in the toys, how are you going to buck that trend and make them more appealing than say an Xbox with FIFA, Fortnite et al? Can do all the planning in the world, it won’t do them much good in that regard if they can’t compete for the attention long term.
Want to be Obi-wan Kenoni swinging a saber round and destroying droids or fighting Vader/Maul/Dooku again…. Can be done all on one video game rather than having to buy multiple action figures
Perhaps, though i’d be very willing to bet that the novelty would wear off relatively quickly and again the electronics would be the go to whilst the lego and figures sat in their boxes again.
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scarf man
Master Member
Did you see one of them roll by? Which way was it headed? What color was it?
Regardless of what the electronics are doing I just can't picture the demand for tangible toys entirely going away. I think that's human nature. It's never gonna be 1983 again but humans have been making toys for their kids for thousands of years.
As for licensing costs - if Disney is opening a zillion-dollar new movie starring the Millennium Falcon, and their primary toy company says they cannot afford to sell a Falcon toy for the figures . . . that's mismanagement at some level. Disney should make their licensing fee low enough to allow more toys to get sold. It's in the long-term interests of their own franchise to get kids more engaged with it.
The toy company might need to make the Falcon playset a 'loss leader' where they lose money on it and recoup it with profits from the smaller stuff. The existence of the larger playset will indirectly fuel sales of more figures. Etc.
I mean, this is all product planning 101. Like a shaving razor company that intentionally loses money on the razor itself to recoup it on blade refills. Chrysler/Dodge lost money on the Viper for years because it helped offset the company's 1980s minivan image. Etc.
As for licensing costs - if Disney is opening a zillion-dollar new movie starring the Millennium Falcon, and their primary toy company says they cannot afford to sell a Falcon toy for the figures . . . that's mismanagement at some level. Disney should make their licensing fee low enough to allow more toys to get sold. It's in the long-term interests of their own franchise to get kids more engaged with it.
The toy company might need to make the Falcon playset a 'loss leader' where they lose money on it and recoup it with profits from the smaller stuff. The existence of the larger playset will indirectly fuel sales of more figures. Etc.
I mean, this is all product planning 101. Like a shaving razor company that intentionally loses money on the razor itself to recoup it on blade refills. Chrysler/Dodge lost money on the Viper for years because it helped offset the company's 1980s minivan image. Etc.
Maybe this has come up before, but recently I had a 'Schrödinger's cat' moment watching ESB, explanation following.
One of the issues with movies is that we as the audience don't always know how much time has passed between scenes unless the movie specifically tells us or gives us context clues, and we don't always know exactly the actions of the characters that take place off-screen unless the movie specifically tells us or gives us context clues.
One example would be seeing a character as a child with or without a time/date given, and the in a later scene seeing the same character older with or without a time/date given. With the time/date given, we as the audience can identify that we are seeing the same character in two different time periods. With no time/date given, we can use context clues to determine that we are seeing the same character but in a different time period because the character has the same name, same look, is in the same location, etc...
The same is true for actions that may have taken place off-screen. Because we were not specifically shown what happened on-screen, we have to either be told by the movie specifically what happened off-screen or we have to use context clues to figure out what happened off-screen based on the story and the characters.
I say all this in reference to the end of ESB. Because we are not specifically told by the movie, we do not know how much time has passed between when Leia and Lando rescued Luke on Bespin and when we see them again in the Rebel Medical Frigate. We also do not know exactly any/all of the actions that Luke, Chewy, Leia, and Lando took between the Bespin rescue scene and the Medical Frigate scene.
Based on what we do know happened on Bespin, and what we see on the Medical Frigate, there is no evidence to either prove that Luke had his actual hand reattached using robotic implants in his wrist or prove that his entire hand is now robotic.
We see a 'new' hand, but nothing in the movie shows or proves that the hand itself is either his real hand or a robot hand. We do see a robotic implant in his wrist, but not his actual hand.
Nothing we see after the Bespin rescue would prove or disprove that Luke's hand was definitively left/lost on Bespin, nor are we shown definitively that it was recovered and someone went back for it or had it delivered to the Rebellion.
Even in ROTJ we see Luke get shot in his upper wrist exposing his robotic implant in his wrist but not his actual hand.
Based on what we as the audience sees in ESB and ROTJ it's a 'Schrödinger's cat' paradox if Luke's hand is his real hand or a robotic hand. It's not until EP7 that we see a full robotic hand on Luke that we know for sure.
One of the issues with movies is that we as the audience don't always know how much time has passed between scenes unless the movie specifically tells us or gives us context clues, and we don't always know exactly the actions of the characters that take place off-screen unless the movie specifically tells us or gives us context clues.
One example would be seeing a character as a child with or without a time/date given, and the in a later scene seeing the same character older with or without a time/date given. With the time/date given, we as the audience can identify that we are seeing the same character in two different time periods. With no time/date given, we can use context clues to determine that we are seeing the same character but in a different time period because the character has the same name, same look, is in the same location, etc...
The same is true for actions that may have taken place off-screen. Because we were not specifically shown what happened on-screen, we have to either be told by the movie specifically what happened off-screen or we have to use context clues to figure out what happened off-screen based on the story and the characters.
I say all this in reference to the end of ESB. Because we are not specifically told by the movie, we do not know how much time has passed between when Leia and Lando rescued Luke on Bespin and when we see them again in the Rebel Medical Frigate. We also do not know exactly any/all of the actions that Luke, Chewy, Leia, and Lando took between the Bespin rescue scene and the Medical Frigate scene.
Based on what we do know happened on Bespin, and what we see on the Medical Frigate, there is no evidence to either prove that Luke had his actual hand reattached using robotic implants in his wrist or prove that his entire hand is now robotic.
We see a 'new' hand, but nothing in the movie shows or proves that the hand itself is either his real hand or a robot hand. We do see a robotic implant in his wrist, but not his actual hand.
Nothing we see after the Bespin rescue would prove or disprove that Luke's hand was definitively left/lost on Bespin, nor are we shown definitively that it was recovered and someone went back for it or had it delivered to the Rebellion.
Even in ROTJ we see Luke get shot in his upper wrist exposing his robotic implant in his wrist but not his actual hand.
Based on what we as the audience sees in ESB and ROTJ it's a 'Schrödinger's cat' paradox if Luke's hand is his real hand or a robotic hand. It's not until EP7 that we see a full robotic hand on Luke that we know for sure.
Yes, ESB especially passes lots of time we don't see. I often think that "Bespin's pretty far, but I think we can make it," suggests that the journey to Bespin (and Luke's training) was intended to be many weeks or months. Which would explain why Leia is sad on Cloud City when he says the repairs are almost done.
On both the sail barge and the cockpit it’s always looked like upper-upper wrist and not his hand to me.
Joek3rr
Master Member
On a slightly related note. Hasbro made a ton of those Prequels toys. One can go to toy stores that still sell those figures new in box, for about the same amount, or even sometimes less, what the new figures are going for. Thats just how much the market was saturated.This one doesn't really work.
I mean, take whatever attitude you have with respect to the new films, but the "message" that seems to be implied by the meme (i.e., "It was better in the good old days, and now because the films got bad, look how the toy aisles have shrunk!") just doesn't hold water if you know anything about the environment in '99 or if you have even a passing understanding of what the 2019 toy aisle is actually showing you.
First, the 1999 Phantom Menace toy release was, at least as I've heard, rather a spectacular disaster. Toy stores went in big for the new toys, buying lots of the new stuff to sell to kids...who then didn't show up. As a result, a lot of the Phantom Menace toys released that year just didn't sell well and the stores either sent 'em back or junked 'em. By that point, the Power of the Force line had also dwindled some, with older OT era stuff being phased out by Hasbro. I remember going to a toy store right around that time and picking up a bunch of half-price vehicles (Falcon, AT-AT, Luke's X-wing, Vader's TIE, etc.), all of which now reside in my basement, still sealed.
Anyway, the 1999 toys didn't actually sell all that well, primarily because the film was poorly received.
It's also worth noting how retail toy sales have fundamentally changed in the time shown in the meme. In 1999, Amazon was still just selling books, or at most was juuuuust starting to branch into other items. Toys R Us and KayBee Toy Stores both still existed as going concerns. You'd see entire aisles devoted just to one particular toy line, because that was the only place to get those toys.
By contrast, by 2019, KayBee and TRU are both dead and buried, and online sellers (e.g., Amazon) dominate the marketplace. You can still go to a Walmart or Target and walk thru their toy sections, but those aisles are like a quarter of the length of an old school toystore aisle, and may also have only part of the shelf devoted to a single toy line.
Moreover, kids just...don't play as much with action figures anymore. Which is why what you see on that 2019 wall is Vintage Collection figures which retail for something like $12-16 and are primarily targeted towards the collector market, rather than towards kids.
In other words, if the goal of the meme is to argue that the decline in quality in films between 1999 and 2019 is reflected by the waning popularity of Star Wars action figures and toys...then yeah, it just doesn't hold water. They weren't super popular in 1999 to begin with, and you're as much making an observation about changing tastes in toys and entertainment with kids and larger market forces like the shift from brick 'n' mortar to online sales, as you are about anything else.
On the other hand, if the point of the meme is just to say "Man....stuff's different now," then yeah, dead-on. Stuff's different now!
If I ever have kids that do that, I'm returning them!
Joek3rr
Master Member
A lot hinges on the parents. Call us old-fashioned. But my wife and I have already decided that our kids will get phones once they start driving. Not before. It's going books and toys to keep them entertained.
I distinctly remember the Marvel ESB comic adaptation at the time (and the novelization) do NOT make it clear that Luke's right hand was severed completely... at first. Here's the text from the 1980 novelization:
glanced at it. At that second, the Dark Lord’s laser blade came slashing down across Luke’s hand, cutting it, and sending the youth’s lightsaber flying. The pain was excruciating. Luke smelled the terrible odor of his own seared flesh and squeezed his forearm beneath his armpit to try to stop the agony. He stepped backward along the gantry until he reached its extreme end, stalked all the while by the black-garbed apparition.
...but later on...
Raising his hand, Luke offered it to the expert service of Too-Onebee. The surgeon droid examined the bionic hand that was skillfully fused to Luke’s arm. Then the robot wrapped a soft metalized strip about the hand and attached a small electronic unit to the strip, tightening it slightly. Luke made a fist with his new hand and felt the healing pulsations imparted by Too-Onebee’s apparatus. Then he let his hand and arm relax.
So yes... in 1980 you COULD know (from an officially sanctioned/canonized source outside the movie) that Luke's hand was severed AND was replaced by a completely robotic hand.
But I get your point.
I always took it to mean that he could not let himself rest until Han was rescued. That's why Luke immediately goes back to Yoda as soon as Han is free. Also, I think that canon added later that it was a whole year; I think originally it was just supposed to be a few weeks or months at most.
But clearly Lando at the end of ESB was talking about "finding" Han and the bounty hunter, which means that Boba Fett did not make it directly to Jabba's palace, and they had to try to track him down. I don't see it as "taking a year off".
There's a comic series that ended a bit ago that told the story of Fett trying to get Han to Jabba. There were several other bounty hunters that tried to take him away, so to say he didn't go straight there is an understatement. LOL
BTW, from my little rant the other day about watching the 30 mins review of the whole Clone War thing.
For one, not that anyone took it this way, but still, not putting anyone down that does like it.
And I know myself, if I were to watch it, I'd probably enjoy all the character interactions and that main story parts, just some of the stuff mentioned about certain story or characters, like Maul surviving, I still just don't prefer that that had happened.
Like I hear rumors about Mace Windu possibly surviving. Knowing Disney, if they see money involved, they'll do it. I'd really prefer to know he died out the window. I mean, that was a pretty major turning point in Anakin turning to the dark side.
I really hate to see Disney keep watering down these big story parts and characters.
For one, not that anyone took it this way, but still, not putting anyone down that does like it.
And I know myself, if I were to watch it, I'd probably enjoy all the character interactions and that main story parts, just some of the stuff mentioned about certain story or characters, like Maul surviving, I still just don't prefer that that had happened.
Like I hear rumors about Mace Windu possibly surviving. Knowing Disney, if they see money involved, they'll do it. I'd really prefer to know he died out the window. I mean, that was a pretty major turning point in Anakin turning to the dark side.
I really hate to see Disney keep watering down these big story parts and characters.
Joek3rr
Master Member
In the EU continuity, the Shadows of the Empire multimedia project. Showed that Luke and company tried to recover Han from Boba. And in the meantime had to deal with Black Sun.
Also I imagine that Luke wasn't exactly eager to face Yoda after disobeying him.
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