batguy

Sr Member
The curved AK mag is just too recognizable IMO.

Yeah, the OT was full of modded stock firearms. But I didn't like some of those either. IMO Boba Fett's rifle was too much like an earthly revolver at the handle/trigger area. They got away with that stuff 45 years ago because it was before the hi-res home video era. And the most incriminating areas of the customized guns tended to be covered by the actor's hand holding it most of the time.


Look at the Millennium Falcon cockpit's resemblance to a B-29 bomber. That's cool. But it wouldn't be as cool if the ILM guys had literally slapped a stock B-29 cockpit onto the Falcon model. You want "inspired by", not "grafted from".

I actually like the idea of rebel fighters holding a gun that has a strong influence from an AK-47. It strikes the right tone IMO. But the prop shouldn't look like it came entirely from the earth parts bin. Make the curved magazine bigger or more rounded or something.
 

Psab keel

Legendary Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
The Mauser is a good example of having enough added to it where it looked familiar yet still not necessarily of this earth. Then again, this issue with the AK can be overlooked if the script is strong.
 

Riceball

Master Member
The curved AK mag is just too recognizable IMO.

Yeah, the OT was full of modded stock firearms. But I didn't like some of those either. IMO Boba Fett's rifle was too much like an earthly revolver at the handle/trigger area. They got away with that stuff 45 years ago because it was before the hi-res home video era. And the most incriminating areas of the customized guns tended to be covered by the actor's hand holding it most of the time.


Look at the Millennium Falcon cockpit's resemblance to a B-29 bomber. That's cool. But it wouldn't be as cool if the ILM guys had literally slapped a stock B-29 cockpit onto the Falcon model. You want "inspired by", not "grafted from".

I actually like the idea of rebel fighters holding a gun that has a strong influence from an AK-47. It strikes the right tone IMO. But the prop shouldn't look like it came entirely from the earth parts bin. Make the curved magazine bigger or more rounded or something.
Yeah, they probably should have gone with a shorter, lower capacity magazine like a California legal 10 rounder. Or, since everything to the back of the barrel and piston appears to be an MP40, maybe a shortened MP40 mag might have worked, although that probably would have required a bit of work since I don't think that MP40s ever came with anything less than the stick mags we always see it with.
 

RodanAZ

Well-Known Member
It's still an AK receiver... you can see that from the magazine position and profile and you can see the outline of the original safety. The top of the receiver where the dust cover would be has been modified, which is what is making it resemble an MP40.

The Broomhandle Mauser was not all that common in the US, so not immediately recognizeable to the general public, but it was modified in a way that was not typical at that time, giving it great character. Probably the rarest/most unusual in the OT was the Margolin target .22 that became Leia's Defender. Saw one of those sell at auction last month for ~$3000...
 

pengbuzz

Sr Member

Riceball

Master Member
It's still an AK receiver... you can see that from the magazine position and profile and you can see the outline of the original safety. The top of the receiver where the dust cover would be has been modified, which is what is making it resemble an MP40.

The Broomhandle Mauser was not all that common in the US, so not immediately recognizeable to the general public, but it was modified in a way that was not typical at that time, giving it great character. Probably the rarest/most unusual in the OT was the Margolin target .22 that became Leia's Defender. Saw one of those sell at auction last month for ~$3000...
But what it does it matter if it is an AK receiver when it's been modified to where it looks more like an MP40 than an AK or some sort?
 

pengbuzz

Sr Member
My take is that while Han, Luke, and Leia are key figures in the Rebellion, using the entire Rebel force to rescue one guy seems like a very stupid move when they've been planning the attack on the DS2 for Lord knows how long.

So what seems like the greater risk? Sending a few capable fighters to save one of their Generals? Or risk missing the window on being able to possibly overthrow the Empire and by extension, liberate the galaxy? Save a single life? Or potentially save the lives of billions?
Not to mention a smaller group runs far less risk of being spotted, and can get Han out without Jabba feeling compelled to call in favors from the Empire. A smaller group is more mobile, needs fewer resources and is less noticeable.

One more thought: I think Luke already knew how all this would most likely play out, and he knows Tatooine better than most so he knew what they could do and what would get them spotted in an instant. Add to that premonitions from the Force, and he would be able to devise a plan that made sense to Chewie, Lando and Leia.
 

batguy

Sr Member
The Han Solo rescue was the right approach, whether it was good writing or just an excuse for an action scene in 1983. Send in a small crew to smash & grab him. The rebel alliance couldn't risk amassing there in a big way and drawing a major confrontation with the Empire.

There are other unanswered questions though. Wouldn't Jabba have turned Luke & Leia & Chewie over to the Empire rather than try to execute them or use them for slaves? At the end of ESB they had all escaped from Bespin rather than being set free. The Empire probably still had decent bounties on their heads.
 

Psab keel

Legendary Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Maybe it was implied, maybe it was just my own theory, but it makes the most sense to me. I often hear criticisms that Luke had some intricate plan to rescue Han and that had one thing gone wrong, it just would have all fallen apart.

This is the way I always saw it:

-Lando goes in early, disguised as a skiff guard/ guard to infiltrate the palace and send intel to Luke and co (layout of the palace, number of guards etc).
-Luke sends in the droids to try and negotiate. That fails, and Jabba calls Luke's bluff and keeps the droids.
-Leia comes in with Chewie, hoping to rescue Han in the night and breakout the remaining heroes (Chewie, 3PO, R2) and with Lando's help they sneak out, but she gets caught.
-Luke shows up when they are all captured. He gets thrown into the Rancor pit, killing it, and Jabba sentences them all to die at the Sarlacc.
-After one last attempt to get Jabba to surrender, Luke unleashes hell and they all escape.

So it wasn't that Luke planned for all that to happen, but it was a series of escalating events that culminated in the events we see on screen and some of the coolest action sequences ever committed to film.
 

CB2001

Master Member
Maybe it was implied, maybe it was just my own theory, but it makes the most sense to me. I often hear criticisms that Luke had some intricate plan to rescue Han and that had one thing gone wrong, it just would have all fallen apart.

This is the way I always saw it:

-Lando goes in early, disguised as a skiff guard/ guard to infiltrate the palace and send intel to Luke and co (layout of the palace, number of guards etc).
-Luke sends in the droids to try and negotiate. That fails, and Jabba calls Luke's bluff and keeps the droids.
-Leia comes in with Chewie, hoping to rescue Han in the night and breakout the remaining heroes (Chewie, 3PO, R2) and with Lando's help they sneak out, but she gets caught.
-Luke shows up when they are all captured. He gets thrown into the Rancor pit, killing it, and Jabba sentences them all to die at the Sarlacc.
-After one last attempt to get Jabba to surrender, Luke unleashes hell and they all escape.

So it wasn't that Luke planned for all that to happen, but it was a series of escalating events that culminated in the events we see on screen and some of the coolest action sequences ever committed to film.
Essentially, Luke had plans. And when plans failed, he had backup plans. And when they failed, he had backups for the backup plans. That’s 3 dimensional chess playing right there.
 

CB2001

Master Member
Luke's plan: "Okay so if none of you succeed, I'm just going to hack everyone into pieces with my new lightsaber."
To be fair, he gave Jabba a choice in addition to multiple chances to make the right one. And Jabba, being arrogant, chose his own death. That’s squarely on him. Luke was justified in his actions because Jabba wouldn’t let his friends and droids go, and then dropped him into the Rancor pit with the intention to kill him, and planned on trying to kill him and his friends by dropping them in the Sarlacc Pit. If there is one thing that’s clear about Luke, he took Yoda’s advice on being patient to heart.
 

batguy

Sr Member
Luke shouldn't have said "I'm taking Solo; you can either profit by this or be destroyed" in front of Jabba's whole entourage. That gives Jabba no choice but to try to stomp him. A gangster cannot tolerate that kind of disrespect in public.

Luke should have asked for a private meeting with Jabba right from the start. Keep the egos & street cred issues out of it.

Luke could have also said "The rebel alliance would owe you a favor. Is there something else you want?" The RA was a scruffy upstart group compared to the Empire, but they would have been punching in a higher weight class than Jabba's outfit.
 

Psab keel

Legendary Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I agree with that, but I also feel like Luke had already tolerated enough. I mean he tried bargaining right from the beginning, so whether the meeting was private or public, I doubt it would have made any difference. When he demands Jabba turn Han over when he arrives at the palace, that was just another method to resolve the matter. Intimidation. The fact that even walking the plank Luke still gives Jabba one last chance to surrender, really sells how mature Luke has become as a Jedi. He tried multiple times but Jabba refused them all. You can never say he wasn't warned.

To me it just makes Luke igniting that saber all the more incredible to watch because he only used strength when absolutely necessary.
 
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batguy

Sr Member
IMO Luke handled it medium-good. Could have been better.

Me, in Luke's shoes? I would have started force-choking Jabba as soon as I got done killing the Rancor. Then re-start the negotiations:


"Okay, Jabba. We want Han Solo, and you want to live through the next 2 minutes. I'm feeling generous so you get one more chance to make a deal.

BTW, I'm only offering not to choke you myself. I can't speak for Leia, who is pulling her chains around your neck right now. That's between you and her."



. . . but this is why I'm not cut out to be a Jedi. Too much dark side in me.
 
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Psab keel

Legendary Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Jedi Mind tricks only work on the weak minded. The officer Vader chokes in the DS conference room seemed pretty smart to me. Unless Hutts aren't as susceptible to Jedi powers in general. Some sort of biological semi immunity due to their physiology? Thats an interesting question.
 

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