blewis17

Master Member
They possibly could have gone with puppets like they did In Jedi, but there's almost no way that they could have done it all in camera like they did on Jedi. In Jedi, the throne room was dark and they were sitting on platform on the ground where you had room to hide the puppeteers. I imagine trying to operate two Hutt puppets while on a platform being held by people several feet off the ground outdoors? You'd either have to film their scenes against a green screen and comp them in, or you come up some kind of rig to stabilize the platform and erase the rig in post. Either way, you're still doing a lot of post work. In the end it was probably decided that it was cheaper and easier to do the Hutts in CG and comp them in than having to deal with making puppets and all of the extra work involved with fitting in the scene.
Probably would have been fully animatronic this time, rather than several performers crammed into a stinky latex Hutt body.
 

JoeG

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
If it wasn't posted on the official Star Wars socials, then it's fake. I haven't seen anything like that posted today.
 

Sluis Van Shipyards

Legendary Member
At the 6m22sec of this video of the Battle of Endor, anyone ever catch the fact that, just before the Falcon's dish gets broken off, Wedge closes his S-foils to get through the space? I've probably watched this battle a thousand times and I never noticed it before.
I don't take credit for it though, someone in the comments was talking about it.

I've never noticed that either! Pretty cool!
 

Halliwax

Legendary Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
At the 6m22sec of this video of the Battle of Endor, anyone ever catch the fact that, just before the Falcon's dish gets broken off, Wedge closes his S-foils to get through the space? I've probably watched this battle a thousand times and I never noticed it before.
I don't take credit for it though, someone in the comments was talking about it.
I always noticed the broken dish, what always bothered me is Landos voice echos “that was too close” and I swear this was only in the special edition and never fixed.. every version I’ve seen so far it’s always echoed

But don’t remember this problem on VHS
 

Joek3rr

Master Member
PXL_20220113_170322984.PORTRAIT.jpg

To celebrate LEGO's release of the "Hoth" AT-ST, I wanted to explore other appearances of the "Hoth" or ESB AT-ST in books, games, and toys.

At-st_large_pic.jpg


Atsthoth.jpg

First let's remind ourselves of some of the differences. The head on the ESB version is shorter, and slightly longer. It's the most noticeable in the the face plate. The weapon blisters are proportionally larger. It's hard to tell if they are actually larger or if the head is just smaller. The slope of the head from the back to the front, is curved, instead of a straight line like on the ROTJ version. The armor on the back of the head has a slightly different shape to it. And the main cannons are larger. And of course the view ports are closed.

The only other noticeable difference is the length of the legs. With the ESB version having taller legs. There are other differences between the engine section and body. But as they are harder to see, I'll skip those for now.

So with the differences fresh in our minds, let's see where the ESB AT-ST makes some more appearances. Because while the ROTJ version is the most well known, and the most reproduced version. The ESB version (or parts of it) show up from time to time.

tempVatst.jpg

The first appearance comes along in 1982 with Kenner's "Scout Walker." It would get rereleased several times under Hasbro's a few times. Until 2009 under "The Legacy Collection", it would get a full accurate redesign, making it a complete ROTJ AT-ST. Very quickly we can see that it has the head that looks to be inspired by the ESB version.(with some liberties taken) Complete with that red symbol on the back of the head. But it's on short ROTJ legs. Just some more liberties on Kenner's part?

Art-of-Return-of-the-Jedi-b0bafett_Empire-p119~2.jpg

Nope! It looks like Kenner had some concept art from Joe Johnston! Once again, that ESB style head.

2ZRup5Yb_0410150140211.jpg

(This is a bit of a bonus. As this AT-ST kinda does it's own thing. But I wanted to show it because of the long cannons on either side of the head, like the Kenner toy)

Before we continue with a look at toys, we have to detour over to books really quick.

With the Special Editions, and Prequels looming on the horizon. A host of guide books were written. The book we're looking at is "The Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels", released in 1996. In it we're given this schematic....

Atstblue (1).jpg

This time the mismatching is flipped. With the ROTJ head on ESB legs. This is really odd, as it has its origins with blueprint going back to ROTJ.
Art-of-Return-of-the-Jedi-b0bafett_Empire-p118~2.jpg

But we can see the origin of the legs in this picture of the ESB model.
ATST ESB side juankplastik.jpg


This mismatched schematic would be used for several toys and a video game.

Wizards of the Coast, "Star Wars Miniatures" table top game would release an AT-ST in 2005, 2006, and 2007. They would all essentially use the same model based off that schematic. Albeit with closed view ports.

swminiBOH11ATST4.jpg

This the 2007 release from the "Battle of Hoth" pack.

It also looks to be the inspiration behind the LEGO's 75153 AT-ST Walker (from Rogue One) and 75254 AT-ST Raider.
Size-Comparison-SIDE-2-1024x747.jpg

We can see 75153 on the left in this little comparison. From this blog. Welcome to Stuck In Plastic

On the toy front, with the except of fan made models, and the newest LEGO, the only true ESB AT-ST (that I'm aware of) is a little model made by Bandai.
61UIf4H8ZAL.jpg


On the video game front. The ROTJ version of the AT-ST is the most prevalent. Even if that game has a section taking place on Hoth during the film, the ROTJ AT-ST is always used. This includes games like "Shadows of the Empire", every entry in the "Battlefront" series both classic and modern. RTS games like "Galactic Battlegrounds" and "Empire at War." And "The Force Unleashed" and "Jedi: Fallen Order." These all use the ROTJ AT-ST. But there are a few exceptions.

"Star Wars Galaxies" would use that AT-ST with ROTJ head and ESB legs.
At-st.png


And as I researching different appearances of the AT-ST, I remembered playing "Jedi Outcast" and thinking the AT-ST we're awfully tall. A quick search for some game play footage confirmed suspicions. "Dark Forces II", "Jedi Outcast", and "Jedi Academy" all use the ESB AT-ST! The only difference being the the open viewports. This makes it the most complete appearance of the ESB AT-ST in all of Star Wars video games.

Screenshot_20211218-073302~2.png
Screenshot_20211218-073148~2.png


And with that. That brings me to the end of this little look at the somewhat obscure ESB or "Hoth" AT-ST. I hope you've enjoyed it. Do you guys know of any others examples of this AT-ST? I find that I like more then it's more popular brother. And hope that it gets used more in upcoming shows or games.
 

BobaFettSlave_1

Sr Member
Maybe its just me cause I like engineering and studying WWII crap like no tomorrow, but it always strikes me as really odd how with StarWars the ANH to ESB to ROTJ visual design differences, be it in blasters, equipment, ships or whatever else have you from using different Foundparts from film to film always tends to shy away from the terminology typically used with advancing or modifying an engineering design.

For instance in ESB you call it a AT-ST "Type V" and come ROTJ it's the "new" AT-ST "Type VI" or whatever, and it makes perfect sense because some significant time has elapsed going into the next film.. Same for the E-11's and Bobas EE-3
That was one of the things I really adored from Rogue One with their ships and weapons, like making the E-11D's for the Death Troopers to use and such, because THATS just adding to the worldbuilding and believability of StarWars.
These people are at war, or at least WERE in a universe of constant internal conflict... Designs are constantly being altered/modified, reengineered and updated in the hopes of them becoming improved; even if it doesn't always work out that way. Personally I wish we had WAY more of that kinda stuff going on from StarWars installment to StarWars installment... Same with people making custom blasters or sabers too.. There's so much untapped creative possibility there with preexisting base guns for with which to work with to make alternative or improved designs to already existing designs in Universe
 
Last edited:

Joek3rr

Master Member
Maybe its just me cause I like engineering and studying WWII crap like no tomorrow, but it always strikes me as really odd how with StarWars the ANH to ESB to ROTJ visual design differences, be it in blasters, equipment, ships or whatever else have you from using different Foundparts from film to film always tends to shy away from the terminology typically used with advancing or modifying an engineering design.

For instance the in ESB you call it a "AT-ST Type V" and come ROTJ it's the "new" AT-ST Type VI" or whatever.. Same for the E-11's and Bobas EE-3
That was one of the things I really adored from Rogue One with their ships and weapons like making the E-11D, because THATS just adding to the worldbuilding and believability of StarWars
These people are at war, or at least WERE in a universe of constant internal conflict. Designs are constantly being modified in the hopes of being improved
Oh, yeah I love that. Those subtle changes in ships and guns, kinda give the illusion of being improved. Kinda like the changing aesthetic in Star Trek adds to the illusion of technology changing.

Though for Star Wars, Rogue One kinda messes up the AT-ST. As they use the ROTJ version...... But then again I feel the ESB version was probably only meant for a single person. I like to think of as a sort of Special Forces AT-ST.

Have you seen this video on this subject?
 

BobaFettSlave_1

Sr Member
Oh, yeah I love that. Those subtle changes in ships and guns, kinda give the illusion of being improved. Kinda like the changing aesthetic in Star Trek adds to the illusion of technology changing.

Though for Star Wars, Rogue One kinda messes up the AT-ST. As they use the ROTJ version...... But then again I feel the ESB version was probably only meant for a single person. I like to think of as a sort of Special Forces AT-ST.

Have you seen this video on this subject?
Yeah, the cool thing through is that the old models don't necessarily need to get phased out when the new ones available. Like that ESB one could just be a different variant like you said or even an older leftover still in circulation with the fighting unit used on Hoth. Maybe they felt that model was more reliable in the winter conditions? Thats whats so great about that kinda subtle stuff.
It's just funny how the EU and Fans have never really taken it there but the guys on R1 sorta did hahaha. R1 has its issues but that to me was the kinda stuff i love to see in StarWars.

Thats an awesome video and its exactly the stuff I want more of. He uses the P51 where Id been thinking like U-Boats hahaha :love: Its so subtle yet so important for a foundation of a "lived in" world as much as the way the characters and sets look.
This comment is perfectly put as well
The TIE Variant You Never Knew Existed - YouTube - Google Chrome 1_14_2022 5_35_54 PM.png
 
Last edited:

Halliwax

Legendary Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
View attachment 1533607
To celebrate LEGO's release of the "Hoth" AT-ST, I wanted to explore other appearances of the "Hoth" or ESB AT-ST in books, games, and toys.

View attachment 1533625

View attachment 1533626
First let's remind ourselves of some of the differences. The head on the ESB version is shorter, and slightly longer. It's the most noticeable in the the face plate. The weapon blisters are proportionally larger. It's hard to tell if they are actually larger or if the head is just smaller. The slope of the head from the back to the front, is curved, instead of a straight line like on the ROTJ version. The armor on the back of the head has a slightly different shape to it. And the main cannons are larger. And of course the view ports are closed.

The only other noticeable difference is the length of the legs. With the ESB version having taller legs. There are other differences between the engine section and body. But as they are harder to see, I'll skip those for now.

So with the differences fresh in our minds, let's see where the ESB AT-ST makes some more appearances. Because while the ROTJ version is the most well known, and the most reproduced version. The ESB version (or parts of it) show up from time to time.

View attachment 1533693
The first appearance comes along in 1982 with Kenner's "Scout Walker." It would get rereleased several times under Hasbro's a few times. Until 2009 under "The Legacy Collection", it would get a full accurate redesign, making it a complete ROTJ AT-ST. Very quickly we can see that it has the head that looks to be inspired by the ESB version.(with some liberties taken) Complete with that red symbol on the back of the head. But it's on short ROTJ legs. Just some more liberties on Kenner's part?

View attachment 1533694
Nope! It looks like Kenner had some concept art from Joe Johnston! Once again, that ESB style head.

View attachment 1533696
(This is a bit of a bonus. As this AT-ST kinda does it's own thing. But I wanted to show it because of the long cannons on either side of the head, like the Kenner toy)

Before we continue with a look at toys, we have to detour over to books really quick.

With the Special Editions, and Prequels looming on the horizon. A host of guide books were written. The book we're looking at is "The Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels", released in 1996. In it we're given this schematic....

View attachment 1533893
This time the mismatching is flipped. With the ROTJ head on ESB legs. This is really odd, as it has its origins with blueprint going back to ROTJ. View attachment 1533900
But we can see the origin of the legs in this picture of the ESB model. View attachment 1533902

This mismatched schematic would be used for several toys and a video game.

Wizards of the Coast, "Star Wars Miniatures" table top game would release an AT-ST in 2005, 2006, and 2007. They would all essentially use the same model based off that schematic. Albeit with closed view ports.

View attachment 1533905
This the 2007 release from the "Battle of Hoth" pack.

It also looks to be the inspiration behind the LEGO's 75153 AT-ST Walker (from Rogue One) and 75254 AT-ST Raider. View attachment 1533908
We can see 75153 on the left in this little comparison. From this blog. Welcome to Stuck In Plastic

On the toy front, with the except of fan made models, and the newest LEGO, the only true ESB AT-ST (that I'm aware of) is a little model made by Bandai. View attachment 1533909

On the video game front. The ROTJ version of the AT-ST is the most prevalent. Even if that game has a section taking place on Hoth during the film, the ROTJ AT-ST is always used. This includes games like "Shadows of the Empire", every entry in the "Battlefront" series both classic and modern. RTS games like "Galactic Battlegrounds" and "Empire at War." And "The Force Unleashed" and "Jedi: Fallen Order." These all use the ROTJ AT-ST. But there are a few exceptions.

"Star Wars Galaxies" would use that AT-ST with ROTJ head and ESB legs. View attachment 1533910

And as I researching different appearances of the AT-ST, I remembered playing "Jedi Outcast" and thinking the AT-ST we're awfully tall. A quick search for some game play footage confirmed suspicions. "Dark Forces II", "Jedi Outcast", and "Jedi Academy" all use the ESB AT-ST! The only difference being the the open viewports. This makes it the most complete appearance of the ESB AT-ST in all of Star Wars video games.

View attachment 1533912 View attachment 1533913

And with that. That brings me to the end of this little look at the somewhat obscure ESB or "Hoth" AT-ST. I hope you've enjoyed it. Do you guys know of any others examples of this AT-ST? I find that I like more then it's more popular brother. And hope that it gets used more in upcoming shows or games.
Cool Lego man!!
 

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