ICONS UNEARTHED: STAR WARS featuring Marcia Lucas interview

[Mottrex]

I think the last time I found anything new or interesting about Starwars was the old Dave Berry 8mm movies which were released on Vimeo and YT showing Lucasfilm techs blowing off steam watching the Oscars and never before seen at the time model work...
I also enjoyed Elstree76 for different reasons which had recognisable actors and extras some known from other productions giving both interesting stories and their own spin on their SW experience. The question on who was which Stormtrooper was a bit of a I'm Spartacus moment but the documentary was well made and a solid watch..

 

[HeartBlade]

Watched the final episode. Another hitpiece, basically. As noted, they crammed their coverage of the last two prequel films into one episode, which in itself is an insult. And, of course, all the usual prequel-bashing tropes are again trotted out— Lucas was a control-freak who was obsessed with digital technology, he was surrounded by yes-men, the notion that most of the first two films were “filler”, “I hate sand”, Vader’s “Nooooo!”, etc. And they also pulled the RedLetterMedia trick of taking out-of-context, behind-the-scenes quotes (like Lucas’ infamous “I may have gone too far in a few places”) and using them to support their own predetermined narrative.

Red Letter Media also basically got their start by bashing the Prequel trilogy. Guess its a career starter to bash on Lucas.

There’s also another big push to give Marcia a boatload of credit, and the narrative of this episode is that the prequels would have been better if Marcia had been there, and if there hadn’t been an over-reliance on CGI. But it was again quite emotional to see her breaking down on camera over her split with George, and she certainly doesn’t seem to be pushing to take a bunch of credit for herself.

While I agree that she probably hasn’t gotten the credit she deserves, there’s been a whole cottage industry which has sprung up over the past few years which seems dedicated to pushing this idea that STAR WARS was only great because of Marcia’s involvement, and that George was this hapless, out-of-touch eccentric who could never have been successful without his collaborators’ help. Of course, before pushing Marcia became fashionable, it was Gary Kurtz who was the golden child of the Lucas-bashers.

To be fair to Marcia, she is an incredibly talented editor based on her short but amazing career. She helped finish editing American Graffiti which gave George his first big break to make Star Wars, Scorsese asked her to edit his first studio film and honestly worked with some big names in the business. Scorsese personally chose her because he saw she was talented but not taken seriously because she was mostly editing her husband's films so giving Marcia her credit is overdue. I do agree though that there are far too many George-haters that try to attribute credit to anyone other than George, first being Gary Kurtz who did make a mess of ESB (overbudget, overdue, didnt even finish filming some scenes due to delays, etc.)

I dont want to rag on Kurtz but he wasnt the god of Star Wars some want to claim. It was a collaborative project and no single person made Star Wars what it was. It was a team effort. But all were critical in their own ways to make a movie the success it was.

 

[Gregatron]

Red Letter Media also basically got their start by bashing the Prequel trilogy. Guess its a career starter to bash on Lucas.


To be fair to Marcia, she is an incredibly talented editor based on her short but amazing career. She helped finish editing American Graffiti which gave George his first big break to make Star Wars, Scorsese asked her to edit his first studio film and honestly worked with some big names in the business. Scorsese personally chose her because he saw she was talented but not taken seriously because she was mostly editing her husband's films so giving Marcia her credit is overdue. I do agree though that there are far too many George-haters that try to attribute credit to anyone other than George, first being Gary Kurtz who did make a mess of ESB (overbudget, overdue, didnt even finish filming some scenes due to delays, etc.)

I dont want to rag on Kurtz but he wasnt the god of Star Wars some want to claim. It was a collaborative project and no single person made Star Wars what it was. It was a team effort. But all were critical in their own ways to make a movie the success it was.

Agreed on all points.

 

[Psab keel]

The impact of those original three films is immeasurable. Not just to the film industry but to the culture. The only reason that impact has been overstated in recent years is because there is a concerted effort to downplay it to the point of derision, all to justify inferior copies that only undermine the originals simplistic brilliance.

I will always hold that trilogy in high regard because it literally inspired the course of my life to pursue goals and learn skills I never knew I could master and has made me friends literally the world over. Ultimately they may just be movies, but the way they inspired me, and continue to do so, has given me so much to be thankful for, one of these things being this very forum with all of you incredible people.

To me that's the true magic of stories. They can inspire people to do great things.

 

[pengbuzz]

The impact of those original three films is immeasurable. Not just to the film industry but to the culture. The only reason that impact has been overstated in recent years is because there is a concerted effort to downplay it to the point of derision, all to justify inferior copies that only undermine the originals simplistic brilliance.

I will always hold that trilogy in high regard because it literally inspired the course of my life to pursue goals and learn skills I never knew I could master and has made me friends literally the world over. Ultimately they may just be movies, but the way they inspired me, and continue to do so, has given me so much to be thankful for, one of these things being this very forum with all of you incredible people.

To me that's the true magic of stories. They can inspire people to do great things.

The same ehre: my love of modelbuilding came in part from wanting to make the awesome ships and props I saw in the OT Trilogy! George's world became a playground and an inspiration for a lot of young minds, and what many out there do not seem to understand is that without that, there would be no sequel trilogy.

 

[Captain Dunsel]

Ah…so this is the story of the films whose purpose was to serve as the setup and backstory of The Force Awakens, The Last Jedi, and The Rise of Skywalker?

Interesting.

 

[publiusr]

I think the last time I found anything new or interesting about Starwars was the old Dave Berry 8mm movies which were released on Vimeo and YT showing Lucasfilm techs blowing off steam watching the Oscars and never before seen at the time model work...
I also enjoyed Elstree76 for different reasons which had recognisable actors and extras some known from other productions giving both interesting stories and their own spin on their SW experience. The question on who was which Stormtrooper was a bit of a I'm Spartacus moment but the documentary was well made and a solid watch..

I missed those…

 

[Gregatron]

Ah…so this is the story of the films whose purpose was to serve as the setup and backstory of The Force Awakens, The Last Jedi, and The Rise of Skywalker?

Interesting.

Ah…The Force Awakens, The Last Jedi, and The Rise of Skywalker…the films whose purpose was to serve as the setup and backstory for all of those awesome streaming shows on Disney +?

Be sure to subscribe, don’t ask questions, consume new product, and get excited for next product!

 

[Psab keel]

I'm reminded of the cubes from THX-1138. Wait in the line to get a cube. Wait in another line to dispose of cube. No actual use other than to consume. No value. No purpose. Just consume. George predicted it years before, the irony was that it would be done with his own creation.

 

[Mottrex]

I missed those…

A quick YT search brings them up..

 

[Mottrex]

The same ehre: my love of modelbuilding came in part from wanting to make the awesome ships and props I saw in the OT Trilogy! George's world became a playground and an inspiration for a lot of young minds, and what many out there do not seem to understand is that without that, there would be no sequel trilogy.

Same here once I had built my Spitfire Frankenstein model I would start messing with the sprues adding them to plastic bottles or Wood to make my own craft, coffee lids and yogurt pots used to have awesome shapes for escape pods.
And not having superglue or contact adhesive as a child meant patience was everything, relying on both clothes pegs and books to hold it all together until the pieces bonded together.

 

[Gregatron]

I'm reminded of the cubes from THX-1138. Wait in the line to get a cube. Wait in another line to dispose of cube. No actual use other than to consume. No value. No purpose. Just consume. George predicted it years before, the irony was that it would be done with his own creation.

That is correct. STAR WARS literally has no purpose now, except to make The Mouse money and to socially engineer kids. It has lost its moral and storytelling center, and no longer pushes the boundaries of filmmaking technology. Do you really think that the upcoming ANDOR or the show run by Harvey Weinstein's Former Personal Assistant will capture the hearts and minds of a generation of kids?


It no longer insists upon itself, and no longer generates legions of loyal fans. Just people who buy Baby Yoda merchandise and whine about Diversity & Inclusion (tm) online.

In other words, it merely exists. But has no real cultural or entertainment value to speak of. So many of the things that Lucas himself was accused of (excessive merchandise, abandoning longtime fans, cranking out badly-written films, etc.) have now actually occurred under The Mouse's leadership.


And perhaps the true irony is that the greatest independent franchise of all time became a part of the evil Empire. Like the Republic, it rotted from within, and Lucas' handpicked Chosen One utterly betrayed him and destroyed it.

 

[Captain Dunsel]

Hmmmmmm….finished up to midway through the episode on Jedi…

What I have completed, so far, has sort of a “let’s take this guy down a notch or two” flavor to it, similar to the Gene Roddenberry bashing that has taken place over the past 30 years since his death with characters popping up to claim that they were the “hidden hand” that REALLY made Star Trek what it was.

Bottom line, while others no doubt contributed to small parts of the Original Trilogy (no one makes a major motion picture solely by themselves) the greater whole ultimately represents George’s risk, decision-making, and his accountability. He deserves the full credit that he receives for his creation.

 

[Psab keel]

It's ironic too how quickly the very people who doubted him are the ones trying take all the credit since it became a hit. Lol

 

[Mottrex]

So Kersh made a mess of it all but luckily managed to film everything needed for others to fix?

 

[blewis17]

So Kersh made a mess of it all but luckily managed to film everything needed for others to fix?

"...from a certain point of view"

There are VERY FEW sequels that are on par with the original, let alone better in many respects:
The Godfather II
Aliens
The Empire Strikes Back
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
Terminator 2
Captain America: Civil War
Breakin' 2: Electric Boogaloo

In all honesty, I am not sure how well Kershner and Lucas got along, and there's a reason why George went with someone else for Jedi [Lucas could not get Spielberg because of the Director's Guild, David Lynch didn't understand it/didn't want it, so Lucas settled with Marquand (who later died of complications from a stroke) ]

 

[Gregatron]

Hmmmmmm….finished up to midway through the episode on Jedi…

What I have completed, so far, has sort of a “let’s take this guy down a notch or two” flavor to it, similar to the Gene Roddenberry bashing that has taken place over the past 30 years since his death with characters popping up to claim that they were the “hidden hand” that REALLY made Star Trek what it was.

Bottom line, while others no doubt contributed to small parts of the Original Trilogy (no one makes a major motion picture solely by themselves) the greater whole ultimately represents George’s risk, decision-making, and his accountability. He deserves the full credit that he receives for his creation.

...and they didn't even wait for Lucas to die. He's been watching the vultures attack him, defame him, and tear his baby to pieces for years.


In Roddenberry's case, I've seen people equate him to a "sperm donor" (insert obvious joke here), and say that Gene Coon or any number of others were responsible for STAR TREK. After all Roddenberry only wrote a handful of episodes (and most of them not good), and only served as line producer for the first half of the first season. That being said, he was clearly the idea-man and creative overseer of the show, and did tons of uncredited rewrites to whip troublesome scripts into shape. And, of course, the STAR TREK that most people think of (with the witty banter and sly humor between the characters) primarily came about during Gene Coon's time as producer, whereas the purest Roddenberry stuff ("The Cage", THE MOTION PICTURE, and the first season of TNG) tended to skew much more serious.

Anyway, the reality is probably somewhere in the middle, as it usually is. Too much credit, or not enough.

 

[Gregatron]

By the way, I should give Rick Worley a shoutout, here. He's made some really interesting and in-depth videos about Lucas and the six films. While I don't agree with him on every point, I think he's spot-on in a lot of areas.

This excerpt from one of his longer video essays (which I also recommend) really illustrates how and why all of the bashing and urban legends and untruths get spread and accepted as fact. The whole schtick about Marsha being the the secret genius behind the films comes from just this sort of thing.

 

[Mottrex]

"...from a certain point of view"

There are VERY FEW sequels that are on par with the original, let alone better in many respects:
The Godfather II
Aliens
The Empire Strikes Back
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
Terminator 2
Captain America: Civil War
Breakin' 2: Electric Boogaloo

In all honesty, I am not sure how well Kershner and Lucas got along, and there's a reason why George went with someone else for Jedi [Lucas could not get Spielberg because of the Director's Guild, David Lynch didn't understand it/didn't want it, so Lucas settled with Marquand (who later died of complications from a stroke) ]

I thought they were pretty tight and Kershner was his Film lecture teacher at Uni and called in the favour..
This series is the first I've heard of some of the gripes..
I guess if there is a buck to be made.


Was Van Dam in the sequel

 

[Captain Dunsel]

I finally finished the series, yesterday evening.

Well, you have to question the accuracy of any documentary in which the main subject—in this case, George Lucas—isn’t even even involved to give their point of view.

They spoke about the man as if he had passed away and was no longer with us. Everything presented was decidedly one-sided, as a result.

I have a mixed impression regarding the portions with Marsha. Certainly, some of the clips with her may have been taken out of context, and clearly the maker of the documentary had an agenda and a specific story to tell (Marsha was “the key to all of this”) but I’m sure that there is a lot that is missing in the story being spun in the documentary…