ICONS UNEARTHED: STAR WARS featuring Marcia Lucas interview

Gregatron

Master Member
The way I heard the ST described once was as Star Wars snuff films. I think that's an apt description.

It’s certainly not rocket science. The series was very specifically structured by Lucas like a fairy tale, complete with a proper happy ending. The EU is its own thing, of course, but the films’ happy ending is a part of why they resonated so strongly for so long.

That’s why, on October 30, 2012 (…and, yes, I have thought about the Mayan calendar in relation to the destruction of STAR WARS…), I had that sinking feeling. And, sure enough, Disney’s counterfeit sequel trilogy completely and utterly destroyed the characters, themes, and plot points of the preceding six films. Luke, Han, and Leia all became losers and failures who were unceremoniously killed off, one by one. The Rebels didn’t actually win. Vader’s redemption was pointless. The Emperor never actually died. It was all just a sh***y, woke rehash of the OT, designed to steal away all of Luke’s accomplishments and gear and give them to a Mary Sue. I have no interest in watching the Disney films ever again, except maybe—MAYBE—for analysis after some definitive book on the whole mess is published. Probably not, though. It’s too painful.

Now, because its heart and soul was ripped out, STAR WARS a dead franchise. It’ll just continue to flounder and pump out mediocre shows for the next few years, but there’s no going back to what it was. Ever. I continue to be amazed by people who cling to the sinking ship. I’m not sure if that speaks more to the power of the brand, The Mouse’s ability to breed good little consumers of their empty and stupid “content”, or because STAR WARS fans tend to be less…discerning than those of other franchises.

What we’re seeing now, with the Tolkien fandom rising up and defending him and his work against Amazon’s upcoming trainwreck, is what SHOULD have happened with STAR WARS. Instead, we have people happily surrounding themselves with Baby Yoda plushies and t-shirts. Well, the people who have bothered to stick around, anyway.

Me, I’ve been done for years. I have 0.0% interest in anything the franchise puts out, going forward. Nothing after the Disney buyout is canonical. I only pay attention to the news and analysis coming out of it because it’s educational, and because I’m morbidly fascinated with slowly watching it burn. And with justice being done, because the past few years’ worth of insanity have been nothing less than malicious cultural vandalism.

In a way, the Disney buyout may have been the best thing that could have happened, because it drew a clear line in the sand to distinguish canon from apocryphal corporate fanfiction, and has assured Lucas’ positive and inspirational legacy by giving it a negative to be compared to. The Disney era has become a yardstick to remind everyone just how good we actually had it with Lucas. His creative genius, his careful management of the franchise, his treatment of his audience. These are things far too many people took for granted, and did not appreciate until they were gone.
 
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joberg

Master Member
I can appreciate the discussion happening here, albeit very similar to that now locked thread discussing the fact that the new gen cannot appreciate or is educated enough in movie/cinema Art & History. I liked the Prequels (the casting could've been better) as well as the sequel...but only for its pure entertainment form. Example: my wife is not versed into the SW World and for her, these were entertaining...period.

Of course, since I was a 20 year old when ANH came out in the theater; I have other feelings/critiques than a 6 year old...
History is mentioned a lot during these discussions and that's the main point into keeping the whole franchise canon! But, lately; History is simply dismissed as a "bother".

The "nothing existed before" doesn't work in my book! Continuity is paramount in presenting the SW Saga for the future generations (same as LOTR) The strength of the whole repose on the story and only the story! I know that Mankind built upon the ruins of passed societies to go forward, but the lessons of the past cannot be dismissed easily. It's only when you have a strong knowledge of said past that you can have strong foundations to shore up your next house...and the next one and so forth.

So far; I've seen beloved characters reduced to small, weak and unsure shadows of themselves. Their place/importance in the Saga is now questioned and critiqued to death. Everyone needs a shrink to deal with their emotional state going forward...:rolleyes::(
 

Gregatron

Master Member
That's what happens when you push a story past its natural conclusion and keep trying to mine things from it when it's been over for years. Thank the fans for efforts like 4K77 because they actually appreciate and respect film history and have taken measures to preserve it.

Exactly. Over the past few years, I’ve really come to appreciate things having an ending, and not being exploited into oblivion. Everything has its time, and, more and more, we’ve seen franchise after franchise turned into zombies by corporate greed and endless sequels, reboots, and rehashes. There’s a lot to be said for being content with a satisfying story that’s well-told, instead of endlessly demanding more, more, more.

To cite another vandalized franchise, I’m appalled with what’s happened to STAR TREK. The original TV series is a beloved all-time classic, and those actors and those characters are inextricably linked. I was fine with the spin-off shows doing their own thing with new characters, but now it’s full on-cannibalism, with the original characters being recast multiple times, and one disgusting attempt after another to tear down and overwrite the original. Pure greed, incompetence, and maliciousness.

And so it is with STAR WARS. The Disney movies literally began with a slam against Lucas and the prequels (“This will begin to make things right.”), and now, after the trainwreck of the “sequels”, they’ve moved from one beloved character and story after another to strip-mine, and have been reduced to milking the very prequel era that they had previous ignored and mocked. They’re like locusts.

The final insult will be a full-on remake of the original films, which will utterly fail, of course.
 
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Gregatron

Master Member
I can appreciate the discussion happening here, albeit very similar to that now locked thread discussing the fact that the new gen cannot appreciate or is educated enough in movie/cinema Art & History. I liked the Prequels (the casting could've been better) as well as the sequel...but only for its pure entertainment form. Example: my wife is not versed into the SW World and for her, these were entertaining...period.

Of course, since I was a 20 year old when ANH came out in the theater; I have other feelings/critiques than a 6 year old...
History is mentioned a lot during these discussions and that's the main point into keeping the whole franchise canon! But, lately; History is simply dismissed as a "bother".

The "nothing existed before" doesn't work in my book! Continuity is paramount in presenting the SW Saga for the future generations (same as LOTR) The strength of the whole repose on the story and only the story! I know that Mankind built upon the ruins of passed societies to go forward, but the lessons of the past cannot be dismissed easily. It's only when you have a strong knowledge of said past that you can have strong foundations to shore up your next house...and the next one and so forth.

So far; I've seen beloved characters reduced to small, weak and unsure shadows of themselves. Their place/importance in the Saga is now questioned and critiqued to death. Everyone needs a shrink to deal with their emotional state going forward...:rolleyes::(

I’ve become a big proponent of the illusion of change. Playing with the toys and then putting them away for the next generation to enjoy. Unfortunately, the standard procedure these days to is smash the toys to bits, and paint everyone and everything into a very small corner, leaving nothing for anyone to care about, going forward.

Tearing down, instead of building up and preserving. “Everything you know is wrong”, instead of, “Let’s build upon what came previously in ways that make sense, and honor the past”.
 
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Psab keel

Legendary Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
It's just time to tell new stories, period. The only reason why these franchises became what they are now is because no one has come up with their own original content. Which is why I love shows like Stranger Things because it's an attempt to tell a different kind of story. That's the irony in all this too. People who endlessly defend the Disney Era Star Wars always claim people like us are stuck in the past, when the truth is that we just want to move on to other things and they are the ones going back to a dried up well, demanding more and more. It's staggering how obvious this is.

Though to get back on track, I do look forward to seeing this series with the interviews from Marcia Lucas. Even if they are slanted in their perspective from the filmmaker who created this special, just to hear her take on things will be eye opening because she was such a vital component in the original trilogy getting made at all. I'm almost finished with the Disney + ILM special (not paying for it- we were given a login by a friend) and it's interesting. Nothing particularly new in it but it's intriguing to hear directly from the ILM players in depth. The overall narrative is very loose and unfocused though. It is a neat window into the culture of the company and a bit more candid, which I appreciate. Empire of Dreams is still, in my opinion, the definitive documentary, along with the vintage behind the scenes making of TV specials.

Ultimately I don't know how much more can really be examined of the original films. Marcia finally doing an in depth interview after 40 plus years was a major coup, but after that there's really little left to say about Star Wars as a phenomenon, no?

Even Star Wars analysis has an end point too. The only reason it's impact has been overstated by longtime fans is because there seems to be a concerted effort to tear it down, often from within its own fandom and by those willing to settle for anything. Stories aren't timeless because they have no end in sight. They become timeless because the message they provide can cut through time and speak to anyone, in any time. That's why they last forever. Sadly this truth seems to be lost on our culture.
 
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HeartBlade

Sr Member
It's just time to tell new stories, period. The only reason why these franchises became what they are now is because no one has come up with their own original content. Which is why I love shows like Stranger Things because it's an attempt to tell a different kind of story. That's the irony in all this too. People who endlessly defend the Disney Era Star Wars always claim people like us are stuck in the past, when the truth is that we just want to move on to other things and they are the ones going back to a dried up well, demanding more and more. It's staggering how obvious this is.

Though to get back on track, I do look forward to seeing this series with the interviews from Marcia Lucas. Even if they are slanted in their perspective from the filmmaker who created this special, just to hear her take on things will be eye opening because she was such a vital component in the original trilogy getting made at all. I'm almost finished with the Disney + ILM special (not paying for it- we were given a login by a friend) and it's interesting. Nothing particularly new in it but it's intriguing to hear directly from the ILM players in depth. The overall narrative is very loose and unfocused though. It is a neat window into the culture of the company and a bit more candid, which I appreciate. Empire of Dreams is still, in my opinion, the definitive documentary, along with the vintage behind the scenes making of TV specials.

Ultimately I don't know how much more can really be examined of the original films. Marcia finally doing an in depth interview after 40 plus years was a major coup, but after that there's really little left to say about Star Wars as a phenomenon, no?

Even Star Wars analysis has an end point too. The only reason it's impact has been overstated by longtime fans is because there seems to be a concerted effort to tear it down, often from within its own fandom and by those willing to settle for anything. Stories aren't timeless because they have no end in sight. They become timeless because the message they provide can cut through time and speak to anyone, in any time. That's why they last forever. Sadly this truth seems to be lost on our culture.
I agree. I know telling new stories is hard and technically every story has already been told but even mix characters from different franchises together to see how sparks fly (not literally but mix different archetypes). It is also essential to know when to end stories rather than milk them for all they are worth. Sometimes endings are good because they become memorable and those characters' stories are finished. You can make more stories in the same universe but you dont need to call upon the old characters. Jurassic World shows this best, essentially bringing in the old guard to get eyes on their films.

I agree that there was alot of media bashing of the prequel trilogy. I will say that despite its narrative faults, I did enjoy Phantom Menace. Maul was cool, the lightsaber battles were pretty epic, and the double blade just comes out of nowhere. I did take issue with Episode 2 though. Anakin seemed to have a growth spurt to make his relationship with Padme not so weird (it still was), the love story was very poorly told, and I didnt like that they made Yoda a screaming puppet in the finale. Episode 3 did conclude the trilogy well and the final clash between Obi Wan and Anakin hasnt been beat but I always felt Yoda losing to the Emperor was not properly explained and the film did start off poorly, basically skipping out on the clone war. There were alot of writing issues with PT but it did try to tell a unique story that was much more complex than the black and white story in OT. When compared to ST which essentially did a poor man's version of the OT while desecrating the previous 6 movies in the process, PT are good but not masterpiece films.
 

Gregatron

Master Member
It's just time to tell new stories, period. The only reason why these franchises became what they are now is because no one has come up with their own original content. Which is why I love shows like Stranger Things because it's an attempt to tell a different kind of story. That's the irony in all this too. People who endlessly defend the Disney Era Star Wars always claim people like us are stuck in the past, when the truth is that we just want to move on to other things and they are the ones going back to a dried up well, demanding more and more. It's staggering how obvious this is.

Though to get back on track, I do look forward to seeing this series with the interviews from Marcia Lucas. Even if they are slanted in their perspective from the filmmaker who created this special, just to hear her take on things will be eye opening because she was such a vital component in the original trilogy getting made at all. I'm almost finished with the Disney + ILM special (not paying for it- we were given a login by a friend) and it's interesting. Nothing particularly new in it but it's intriguing to hear directly from the ILM players in depth. The overall narrative is very loose and unfocused though. It is a neat window into the culture of the company and a bit more candid, which I appreciate. Empire of Dreams is still, in my opinion, the definitive documentary, along with the vintage behind the scenes making of TV specials.

Ultimately I don't know how much more can really be examined of the original films. Marcia finally doing an in depth interview after 40 plus years was a major coup, but after that there's really little left to say about Star Wars as a phenomenon, no?

Even Star Wars analysis has an end point too. The only reason it's impact has been overstated by longtime fans is because there seems to be a concerted effort to tear it down, often from within its own fandom and by those willing to settle for anything. Stories aren't timeless because they have no end in sight. They become timeless because the message they provide can cut through time and speak to anyone, in any time. That's why they last forever. Sadly this truth seems to be lost on our culture.


As I said after THE LAST JEDI came out and destroyed the fanbase--It's over. They killed it. It has lost its cultural relevance, and will never again be what it once was. It had a great run--one of the best ever. And that must suffice.

These things all have a shelf-life. It sort of amazes me that so many people failed to learn one of the lessons Lucas was teaching them in the prequels: Learn to let go. Nothing lasts forever. Attachment leads to greed, which leads to the dark side.

I've often equated STAR WARS fans to drug addicts constantly and endlessly trying to recapture that high of watching the films for the first time. It seems like those sticking around in the face of all rational evidence are the most hardcore addicts. To each their own, of course.

In my case, I've learned to let go. I'll carry the franchise and my memories of it with me forever, but I'm totally done, going forward. It will never recover, and clinging to one false hope after another is a fool's errand. The Disney movies are a bell which cannot be unrung. Seeing the core trinity of OT heroes disgraced and killed one by one cannot be undone, no matter what grave-robbing DeepFake technology The Mouse continues to try and lure people back in with.

The real STAR WARS was Lucas' baby. His ideas, his obsessions, his eccentricities. As we've seen in painful detail, without him, there's no vision, and clearly no understanding whatsoever of how that universe and those characters work. The golden goose has been slaughtered, and that's the end of that chapter. The End. The one saving grace is that clear line in the sand between Before Disney and After Disney, so future generations will see how, why, and when things went totally off the rails.


We need new myths and new franchises. That's the bottom, line, here. Trying over and over again to cash in on Baby Boomer and Gen X properties only succeeds in making those properties radioactive and toxic. Ruining them for future generations who will never understand what they used to mean.
 
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Cephus

Sr Member
I learned to let go back in 1983. I let go of Star Trek, at least on TV, in 1969. I let the movies go on, at least the even numbered once, until TNG came along, but mostly, I'll be satisfied with TOS forever. I could watch it over and over. Maybe it's because I grew up with the original movies and TV shows, but nothing else interests me like the originals do. Especially anything modern day and I find it hard to even sit through it. It's why I put an expiration date on franchises. Terminator ended with T2. Alien ended with Aliens. Absolutely nothing that came thereafter qualifies. There might be decent movies here and there, such as Prey and Rogue One, but that's all they are. Decent. The qualitative difference between Star Wars and Rogue One is massive. Unfortunately, people today seem to only care about the flashy CGI and not about the story. I'd much rather watch something with terrible effects done in-camera than to lose a truly fascinating story with characters that are memorable and who don't act like a bunch of post-modernist clowns.

I'd be perfectly happy to see them come up with new franchises, if they were good. Matrix started out that way and quickly went into the crapper, getting worse and worse as it went on. The first John Wick was great but then it degraded movie after movie. I don't even know if I want to watch the fourth one when it finally comes out. There have been TV shows that were really good... for a season or two and then they fell apart because nobody knows how to think ahead. They shoot for the lowest common denominator because they never had the slightest clue where the show was going. The whole philosophy of Hollywood is corrupt these days.

Maybe that's why they only make crap today.
 

Gregatron

Master Member
I learned to let go back in 1983. I let go of Star Trek, at least on TV, in 1969. I let the movies go on, at least the even numbered once, until TNG came along, but mostly, I'll be satisfied with TOS forever. I could watch it over and over. Maybe it's because I grew up with the original movies and TV shows, but nothing else interests me like the originals do. Especially anything modern day and I find it hard to even sit through it. It's why I put an expiration date on franchises. Terminator ended with T2. Alien ended with Aliens. Absolutely nothing that came thereafter qualifies. There might be decent movies here and there, such as Prey and Rogue One, but that's all they are. Decent. The qualitative difference between Star Wars and Rogue One is massive. Unfortunately, people today seem to only care about the flashy CGI and not about the story. I'd much rather watch something with terrible effects done in-camera than to lose a truly fascinating story with characters that are memorable and who don't act like a bunch of post-modernist clowns.

I'd be perfectly happy to see them come up with new franchises, if they were good. Matrix started out that way and quickly went into the crapper, getting worse and worse as it went on. The first John Wick was great but then it degraded movie after movie. I don't even know if I want to watch the fourth one when it finally comes out. There have been TV shows that were really good... for a season or two and then they fell apart because nobody knows how to think ahead. They shoot for the lowest common denominator because they never had the slightest clue where the show was going. The whole philosophy of Hollywood is corrupt these days.

Maybe that's why they only make crap today.


Spot on.

At some point, you just have to ignore the garbage sequels and retcons and reboots and just love what you love. Don’t let them ruin it, or your fond memories of it.

They don’t know when to quit, because it’s “show business“, not “show art”. We who love the artsy side of things know when to quit.
 

HeartBlade

Sr Member
I learned to let go back in 1983. I let go of Star Trek, at least on TV, in 1969. I let the movies go on, at least the even numbered once, until TNG came along, but mostly, I'll be satisfied with TOS forever. I could watch it over and over. Maybe it's because I grew up with the original movies and TV shows, but nothing else interests me like the originals do. Especially anything modern day and I find it hard to even sit through it. It's why I put an expiration date on franchises. Terminator ended with T2. Alien ended with Aliens. Absolutely nothing that came thereafter qualifies. There might be decent movies here and there, such as Prey and Rogue One, but that's all they are. Decent. The qualitative difference between Star Wars and Rogue One is massive. Unfortunately, people today seem to only care about the flashy CGI and not about the story. I'd much rather watch something with terrible effects done in-camera than to lose a truly fascinating story with characters that are memorable and who don't act like a bunch of post-modernist clowns.

I'd be perfectly happy to see them come up with new franchises, if they were good. Matrix started out that way and quickly went into the crapper, getting worse and worse as it went on. The first John Wick was great but then it degraded movie after movie. I don't even know if I want to watch the fourth one when it finally comes out. There have been TV shows that were really good... for a season or two and then they fell apart because nobody knows how to think ahead. They shoot for the lowest common denominator because they never had the slightest clue where the show was going. The whole philosophy of Hollywood is corrupt these days.

Maybe that's why they only make crap today.
Glad to know Im not the only one feeling that way about John Wick. First one was good. Kind of loved the second one to be honest but the third one just killed my enthusiasm for the series. There is a big shift in realism between 2 and 3 and noticed that additional writers were added to Kolstad in 3. Since 4 doesnt even have Kolstad in the writing room, I dont really expect much.

But I have started to pay attention to writers and creators in regard to my favorite IPs. If the original creators are involved in the sequels, there is still promise that the result will be good or at least kind of true to the vision of the creator. If the original creators are gone, might as well view the IP as something brand new that just happens to have the same name.
 

joberg

Master Member
^^^^
All of the above...but that's it; it's the failure to drink at the source and to continue on your own path! SW's History (OT) is the golden marker from where you draw your new adventures. You cannot do new stories while going diametrically so far into another "past"/ "future" while forgetting or erasing that source. It's even worse when the writers are doing it with well known/established characters!
It just doesn't make sense to have the Boba Fett we had in ROTJ and not shake our head comparing the same character in TBOBF! Same with Obi-Wan...They were well established in the OT; there was no need to re-invent the wheel...but they did and that's where they lost me.
It's as if the audience who appreciated the OT had a sudden bout of a lobotomy attack...nope; I remember well, thank you very much.
 

Cephus

Sr Member
Glad to know Im not the only one feeling that way about John Wick. First one was good. Kind of loved the second one to be honest but the third one just killed my enthusiasm for the series. There is a big shift in realism between 2 and 3 and noticed that additional writers were added to Kolstad in 3. Since 4 doesnt even have Kolstad in the writing room, I dont really expect much.

But I have started to pay attention to writers and creators in regard to my favorite IPs. If the original creators are involved in the sequels, there is still promise that the result will be good or at least kind of true to the vision of the creator. If the original creators are gone, might as well view the IP as something brand new that just happens to have the same name.
The first one was great, but by the time you got to the second, and especially the third, everyone was an assassin. Everyone. In a world full of assassins, who is going to need to hire an assassin? Do it yourself! The action and the fight choreography is great, but the story is just absurd. I don't go to movies to watch effects, I go to see the story and the story in John Wick isn't even coherent anymore.

I've been watching the original Battlestar Galactica and, in any of the old shows from the 70s and early 80s, if you watch the writers or producers, you see that they develop from producing excellent television to being producers and show-runners on their own with a long track record of success. The writers and the producers and the show-runners of today, I'm struggling to find anything that they did that was ever good. There is no growth curve. Someone gave them the reins and let them go wild. There's no record of earned success. Most of it is earned failure.
 

Psab keel

Legendary Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
It always comes down to the writing. It always has and it always will. No matter what the apologists tell you. They'll complain that it's a bunch of grumpy old men who hate everything who are at fault for not liking anything, but ultimately it all boils down to how well a story is written. It's really that simple. No matter what anyone says.
 

Cephus

Sr Member
It always comes down to the writing. It always has and it always will. No matter what the apologists tell you. They'll complain that it's a bunch of grumpy old men who hate everything who are at fault for not liking anything, but ultimately it all boils down to how well a story is written. It's really that simple. No matter what anyone says.
Which is why people today can't come up with a single coherent reason why they like anything. They don't understand story. They don't understand what makes a story good. They're only in it for the eye candy and "the message" and that's just stupid. I'm finding it increasingly difficult to have an intelligent conversation with anyone under the age of 40.

That's kind of sad.
 

edge10

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Animated GIF
 

pengbuzz

Sr Member
It's just time to tell new stories, period. The only reason why these franchises became what they are now is because no one has come up with their own original content. Which is why I love shows like Stranger Things because it's an attempt to tell a different kind of story. That's the irony in all this too. People who endlessly defend the Disney Era Star Wars always claim people like us are stuck in the past, when the truth is that we just want to move on to other things and they are the ones going back to a dried up well, demanding more and more. It's staggering how obvious this is.

Though to get back on track, I do look forward to seeing this series with the interviews from Marcia Lucas. Even if they are slanted in their perspective from the filmmaker who created this special, just to hear her take on things will be eye opening because she was such a vital component in the original trilogy getting made at all. I'm almost finished with the Disney + ILM special (not paying for it- we were given a login by a friend) and it's interesting. Nothing particularly new in it but it's intriguing to hear directly from the ILM players in depth. The overall narrative is very loose and unfocused though. It is a neat window into the culture of the company and a bit more candid, which I appreciate. Empire of Dreams is still, in my opinion, the definitive documentary, along with the vintage behind the scenes making of TV specials.

Ultimately I don't know how much more can really be examined of the original films. Marcia finally doing an in depth interview after 40 plus years was a major coup, but after that there's really little left to say about Star Wars as a phenomenon, no?

Even Star Wars analysis has an end point too. The only reason it's impact has been overstated by longtime fans is because there seems to be a concerted effort to tear it down, often from within its own fandom and by those willing to settle for anything. Stories aren't timeless because they have no end in sight. They become timeless because the message they provide can cut through time and speak to anyone, in any time. That's why they last forever.
Agreed; it is indeed time for new stories, fables and tales to be told. Even the best tasting of entrees starts to get old after the thousandth time straight being served...
 

Gregatron

Master Member
Watched the final episode. Another hitpiece, basically. As noted, they crammed their coverage of the last two prequel films into one episode, which in itself is an insult. And, of course, all the usual prequel-bashing tropes are again trotted out— Lucas was a control-freak who was obsessed with digital technology, he was surrounded by yes-men, the notion that most of the first two films were “filler”, “I hate sand”, Vader’s “Nooooo!”, etc. And they also pulled the RedLetterMedia trick of taking out-of-context, behind-the-scenes quotes (like Lucas’ infamous “I may have gone too far in a few places”) and using them to support their own predetermined narrative.

Lip-service is paid at the end of the episode to the fact that Lucas is indeed a visionary who saw the future of filmmaking technology, but that really doesn’t mitigate the preceding hour of “documentary” which does little besides push a narrative and go out of its way to point out all of the negatives (and perceived negatives) surrounding the prequels. They make a point of saying that Lucas was outside of the mainstream Hollywood sphere as if that was a bad thing, rather than what Lucas wanted, and what prevented his films from becoming by-committee garbage (like, y’know, the Disney movies). As I’ve previously noted, the Hollywood establishment has always resented Lucas for his independence and his success, and I’ve become increasingly convinced that the persistent cloud of negativity surrounding the prequels resulted from the media pushing that vibe.

In point of fact, this documentary series was produced by The Nacelle Company, which also made last year’s THE CENTER SEAT documentary series about STAR TREK, a series which also had a smug style to it and pushed a narrative.

There’s also another big push to give Marcia a boatload of credit, and the narrative of this episode is that the prequels would have been better if Marcia had been there, and if there hadn’t been an over-reliance on CGI. But it was again quite emotional to see her breaking down on camera over her split with George, and she certainly doesn’t seem to be pushing to take a bunch of credit for herself.

While I agree that she probably hasn’t gotten the credit she deserves, there’s been a whole cottage industry which has sprung up over the past few years which seems dedicated to pushing this idea that STAR WARS was only great because of Marcia’s involvement, and that George was this hapless, out-of-touch eccentric who could never have been successful without his collaborators’ help. Of course, before pushing Marcia became fashionable, it was Gary Kurtz who was the golden child of the Lucas-bashers.


This is by no means a definitive look at the movies. Personally, while I appreciate the primary-source interviews with surviving participants (especially Marcia), I’d give this a thumbs-down, overall.
 

Mottrex

Sr Member
Watched the final episode. Another hitpiece, basically. As noted, they crammed their coverage of the last two prequel films into one episode, which in itself is an insult. And, of course, all the usual prequel-bashing tropes are again trotted out— Lucas was a control-freak who was obsessed with digital technology, he was surrounded by yes-men, the notion that most of the first two films were “filler”, “I hate sand”, Vader’s “Nooooo!”, etc. And they also pulled the RedLetterMedia trick of taking out-of-context, behind-the-scenes quotes (like Lucas’ infamous “I may have gone too far in a few places”) and using them to support their own predetermined narrative.

Lip-service is paid at the end of the episode to the fact that Lucas is indeed a visionary who saw the future of filmmaking technology, but that really doesn’t mitigate the preceding hour of “documentary” which does little besides push a narrative and go out of its way to point out all of the negatives (and perceived negatives) surrounding the prequels. They make a point of saying that Lucas was outside of the mainstream Hollywood sphere as if that was a bad thing, rather than what Lucas wanted, and what prevented his films from becoming by-committee garbage (like, y’know, the Disney movies). As I’ve previously noted, the Hollywood establishment has always resented Lucas for his independence and his success, and I’ve become increasingly convinced that the persistent cloud of negativity surrounding the prequels resulted from the media pushing that vibe.

In point of fact, this documentary series was produced by The Nacelle Company, which also made last year’s THE CENTER SEAT documentary series about STAR TREK, a series which also had a smug style to it and pushed a narrative.

There’s also another big push to give Marcia a boatload of credit, and the narrative of this episode is that the prequels would have been better if Marcia had been there, and if there hadn’t been an over-reliance on CGI. But it was again quite emotional to see her breaking down on camera over her split with George, and she certainly doesn’t seem to be pushing to take a bunch of credit for herself.

While I agree that she probably hasn’t gotten the credit she deserves, there’s been a whole cottage industry which has sprung up over the past few years which seems dedicated to pushing this idea that STAR WARS was only great because of Marcia’s involvement, and that George was this hapless, out-of-touch eccentric who could never have been successful without his collaborators’ help. Of course, before pushing Marcia became fashionable, it was Gary Kurtz who was the golden child of the Lucas-bashers.


This is by no means a definitive look at the movies. Personally, while I appreciate the primary-source interviews with surviving participants (especially Marcia), I’d give this a thumbs-down, overall.
I must have missed that BVW made these programs and it explains a lot.. The talking heads, the editing the out of context cuts to make the person look like they are reacting to a specific piece.
I have one more to go but it certainly plays like a hack piece with George being the villain..
My take away excluding Marcia and Ian McDs reaction was not that many of the filmmakers got on and seem to relish in backstabbing former colleagues be it crew technician or actors. I didn't learn or see anything new, maybe its my age but I see a lot of these type of shows being made these days..

If its informative yes please but to trash a.. yes pioneer in filmaking for no particular reason that's really bad form.
 

Psab keel

Legendary Member
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I'm only interested in seeing this for Marcia's interviews. She's the only key player whose involvement was central to the making of the films and who has been largely invisible. I know pretty much everything I need to know about the original films. I'd just be curious to hear her in her own words vs. the postulating done by fans over the last 45 years. I don't honestly care to hear from anyone else, even those involved in the films because everyone has had their take ad nauseum down to the remotest of players.

As for the format or "messaging" of this doc, I can overlook that to see her interviews. Everyone has their take on the movies and I'm not interested in more fan theories.
 
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