Captain America: Civil War

[Paul Andrew]

Title be damned, I'll take more of all the Avengers.

 

[CPTRogers]

Spider Man to wear 2 different suits in the movie

 

[seelsa73]

I'm not a die hard Marvel guy but considering the scope, this really sounds more like it should be an Avengers movie rather than a Captain America movie.

That's been my impression from the beginning. But maybe the avengers are more supporting characters than anything and the overarching story is CA-centric.

 

[harrisonp]

I'm not a die hard Marvel guy but considering the scope, this really sounds more like it should be an Avengers movie rather than a Captain America movie.

I tend to qualify the movies by what type of threat they face. Avengers take on the "global" threats, Ultron, Chitauri. Cap fights the political threats, manifesting in both Red Skull and his Hydra, as well as the modern Hydra and its leadership. Iron Man fights himself as his past mistakes flare back up to test him, Stane, Vanko/Hammer,Killian.

So I think this movie will actually fall pretty cleanly between the Cap and Tony threats. Cap will be facing a political adversary in Tony (and assumedly the Govt) while Tony's opponent will be what he and the Avengers have ushered into the world, be it through escalation of threats or the Sokovia incident.

The presence of the Avengers in the film makes more sense to me than their absence in a situation where two of their friends and core members are going head to head on the world stage, but I don't think it's a cut a dry Avengers issue, and their involvement may actually end up being a negative for one or more parties.

 

[.:MirrorminD:.]

Black Panther! and with Stan's stunt double

 

[glunark]

I do like the fact they have a black stuntman when no part of his skin is visible under the costume.

 

[Sundowner]

I like the costume. It has a hints of the comic version but not if your face.

 

[Gimpdiggity]

I like the costume. It has a hints of the comic version but not if your face.

I thought the same thing. The moment I saw it I thought it looked great, even in grainy-from-the-side shots.

I also thought this...I want that helmet...bad...even without seeing the front, the lines of it look amazing.

 

[harrisonp]

I do like the fact they have a black stuntman when no part of his skin is visible under the costume.

he's probably Boseman's double out of the costume too

 

[Mr Mold Maker]

Gave me a very Power Rangers vibe from the grainy photos (which I don't think is a bad thing!) But I agree. The lines are very nice. Can't wait to see the whole thing in glorious HD!

 

[glunark]

I don't think doubles are usually required to do stunts, they are mainly there for blocking out scenes and lighting.

 

[Riceball]

I don't think doubles are usually required to do stunts, they are mainly there for blocking out scenes and lighting.

Actually, that's what they're usually there for (unless they're a body double), what you're thinking of are called stand ins, they're the ones that are there for lighting and blocking.

 

[Father]

I still think the SHRA will come into play, but it might have less of a focus on revealing their civilian names.

Does anyone even have a secret identity in the MCU? Aren't they pretty much all "out" already?

According to a tweet from Nerdcast, we have our teams revealed.
On Captain America's team, there's

Spoiler

Cap, Hawkeye, Falcon, Scarlet Witch, and Ant-Man

On Iron Man's team, there's

Spoiler

Iron Man, Vision, Spidey, Black Widow, and War Machine

No real surprises, for the most part. For me, the most interesting part to see how plays out will be that

Spoiler

Natasha and Clint are on different sides

.

I don't know if this is consistent with the alignments in the comics, but it seems off given the dynamic of the movies/relationships up to this point.

Spoiler

I would have figured Black Widow would be on Caps side, especially after The Winter Soldier.
War Machine... no surprised there.
Vision and Witch should be together, but I can see how she wouldn't go with Stark.

 

[harrisonp]

Does anyone even have a secret identity in the MCU? Aren't they pretty much all "out" already?

I don't know if this is consistent with the alignments in the comics, but it seems off given the dynamic of the movies/relationships up to this point.

Spoiler

I would have figured Black Widow would be on Caps side, especially after The Winter Soldier.
War Machine... no surprised there.
Vision and Witch should be together, but I can see how she wouldn't go with Stark.

The only people in the MCU with secret identities are Spiderman and Daredevil, everyone else is mostly "out" like you said, which leads me to believe that the struggle will be more of a moral one. If Tony feels that they need to cede their autonomy and fall in line under a gov't banner, possibly to the point of fascist comparison, then I could very much see Cap having an issue with that. Even in the original story the only identity that really had an impact was Spiderman, but I highly doubt they will go that direction with the reveal, because it wont really matter if he's a new hero and no one knows who he is anyway. The biggest argument about the SHRA is whether or not they should be agents of the government and the fear of being controlled/shills for it.

The rosters seem right to me really, except like you said it's a little surprising about

Spoiler

Widow's alignment

 

[dascoyne]

Now entering information lockdown ...

See you all next year.

 

[Father]

It's an awesome story because it's very thought provoking.

My thing though, is why do they need to be government "agents"? from a government standpoint, if they don't answer to the government then they have deniability when they go into another country and destroy half the city in a battle. Within a year of working for the government they would rack up a deficit that would cripple the country just having to pay for all the collateral damage they cause.

Tony Stark can pretty much fund the Avengers on his own, so he doesn't need the financial backing of the government.

I can see why the government wants to be their "handlers" for multiple reasons and I don't think any of them have any morals attached to them. I think they said it in one of the movies that they are like a nuclear deterrent. Problem is, and history shows it, that much power usually ends up going to their heads and they abuse it and become bullies.

I could go on...

 

[harrisonp]

It's an awesome story because it's very thought provoking.

My thing though, is why do they need to be government "agents"? from a government standpoint, if they don't answer to the government then they have deniability when they go into another country and destroy half the city in a battle. Within a year of working for the government they would rack up a deficit that would cripple the country just having to pay for all the collateral damage they cause.

Tony Stark can pretty much fund the Avengers on his own, so he doesn't need the financial backing of the government.

I can see why the government wants to be their "handlers" for multiple reasons and I don't think any of them have any morals attached to them. I think they said it in one of the movies that they are like a nuclear deterrent. Problem is, and history shows it, that much power usually ends up going to their heads and they abuse it and become bullies.

I could go on...

I think it will come down to public opinion and outcry for the gov't to keep these people in check, especially after Sokovia. Sure some people may appreciate and understand the Avengers, but we see the inside of every issue, and "know" these people so we have a better understanding of their motivations and character. Citizens of the MCU don't get to see behind the scenes like that, and it could very easily look like Tony Stark and his super friends want to play hero and blow things up, regardless of the overall good they may be doing.

I don't think the government will necessarily want to be accountable for the actions of the Avengers, but their hand may be forced as an increasingly less tolerant public pushes for it. Tony is a prime target for their agenda due to his highly public profile and past refusal to play ball, so having his face on your program shows the public that these heroes have stepped up and taken responsibility for things in the past, and that Tony in particular isn't just playing millionaire superhero anymore. He is also highly vulnerable after the Ultron incident, and is very likely to be looking for reparation in the eyes of the public, and honestly in his own opinion of himself.

Also I think this movie might take the path of outlawing most if not all super powered activities, instead of trying to make everyone a salaried government agent like in the book.

 

[Father]

I think it will come down to public opinion and outcry for the gov't to keep these people in check, especially after Sokovia. Sure some people may appreciate and understand the Avengers, but we see the inside of every issue, and "know" these people so we have a better understanding of their motivations and character. Citizens of the MCU don't get to see behind the scenes like that, and it could very easily look like Tony Stark and his super friends want to play hero and blow things up, regardless of the overall good they may be doing.

I don't think the government will necessarily want to be accountable for the actions of the Avengers, but their hand may be forced as an increasingly less tolerant public pushes for it. Tony is a prime target for their agenda due to his highly public profile and past refusal to play ball, so having his face on your program shows the public that these heroes have stepped up and taken responsibility for things in the past, and that Tony in particular isn't just playing millionaire superhero anymore. He is also highly vulnerable after the Ultron incident, and is very likely to be looking for reparation in the eyes of the public, and honestly in his own opinion of himself.

Was it made clear whether the public knew that Stark and Banner were responsible for "creating" Ultron? If not, will it come out when the team takes a divided position on the SHRA?
I think the biggest issue with becoming agents of the government is that Hydra still has a presence in the government as seen in Ant-Man. I'm assuming that's why Cap takes the side that he does, but it surprises me that the rest of the team doesn't see it the same way. Who's to say that the registered "agents" won't be unwittingly doing the work of Hydra? That would always be my biggest fear. By operating independent of the government they should only come into play for jobs that can't be handled by "normal" people. Alien invasions, other super-powered incidents, etc. We saw in Winter Soldier how covert operations end up being part of a bigger scheme that ends up biting everyone in the butt later.

It's kind of ironic that Captain America is against being a government agent... give his title and all.

Also I think this movie might take the path of outlawing most if not all super powered activities, instead of trying to make everyone a salaried government agent like in the book.

Then it would be more like The Incredibles... and would end up being boring.

 

[Gimpdiggity]

I believe that the public is in fact aware that Stark had something to do with creating Ultron.

In "Ant-Man" there's a point where you see a newspaper that has the headline "Who's To Blame for Sokovia?" or something to that end.

To me, this shows that even if there's no direct knowledge of Stark creating Ultron, some people have an inkling that The Avengers could in some way be responsible for what happened to the city.

 

[harrisonp]

I believe that the public is in fact aware that Stark had something to do with creating Ultron.

In "Ant-Man" there's a point where you see a newspaper that has the headline "Who's To Blame for Sokovia?" or something to that end.

To me, this shows that even if there's no direct knowledge of Stark creating Ultron, some people have an inkling that The Avengers could in some way be responsible for what happened to the city.

didn't the Iron Legion (I think?) turn and help Ultron? If I'm remembering correctly then there were some evil robots running around with the Avengers logo on their chest, so I assume somebody has some questions for Stark.