BATMAN DIOARAMA 3D STL files modeling help

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Nm1cciola

Active Member
I don't know if this is the right place to post this but, I've recently purchased these STL. files for LINK. I've looked for a long time a 1/8 scale kit or near 1/8 scale kit diorama piece for my 1/8 scale batman horizon kits and I believe I found it in this 3D print. I've never delved into the realm of 3D printing and am looking to 3D print this.I created a quote 3D HUBS but before I pull the trigger on this was wondering if there was any advice anyone can give a newbie in regards for things to look out for or just general advice. Looking forward to your responses.
 

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TazMan2000

Master Member
Ensure you give the correct scale to 3D HUBS. Nothing worse that paying top dollar for something that is the wrong scale to what you are looking for.
There are several ways that they print files. The price goes up with quality. If you opt for a lower quality print, be prepared to have a lot of finishing and post processing to do. It looks like some of those 3d models have intricate parts.

TazMan2000
 

Nm1cciola

Active Member
Ensure you give the correct scale to 3D HUBS. Nothing worse that paying top dollar for something that is the wrong scale to what you are looking for.
There are several ways that they print files. The price goes up with quality. If you opt for a lower quality print, be prepared to have a lot of finishing and post processing to do. It looks like some of those 3d models have intricate parts.

TazMan2000
Thank you for your input and advice as a newbie it's invaluable with all the quotes I've gotten to be honest I have been persuaded to purchase one myself
 

Nm1cciola

Active Member
To whomever does come across this thread I was wondering which is a good 3D printer for a hobbyist/beginner?, while keeping in mind that I would like to get to a point where I can print this. Once again to whomever does replay I appreciate the advice.
 

TazMan2000

Master Member
For you I would recommend a SLA LCD printer. They are a bit more expensive (in some cases a lot more) but will give you the quality and probably much less post processing work to get rid of layer lines. But a really good FDM starter printer is the one I started out on and still have, a Creality CR-10S.
You really have to look at your needs, and how it correlates to your budget.

TazMan2000
 

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basementdweller

Active Member
IF you get a printer - any printer - be prepared to tinker. It's not a consumer product as of yet. There are so many things that affect print quality on both the mechanical side and the software side, that you will have to put in the time and effort to get the best out of it. Even if it's supposedly plug and play - you will undoubtebly need to do adjustments and maintenence down the line. It does not have to be a big deal or difficult even - just saying, be prepared.

I would suggest getting an FDM printer to start as they are much cheaper overall and with some fine tuning can produce amazing results. I got a Prusa MK2 and while it was not flawless I got proper warranty (with help) and replacement parts and also the benefit of an involved community and lots of official support. I would say a Creality ender 3 (that's a about $200) would be a good starting point. You might want to do a youtube search and you'll see a bunch of stuff you should do from the get go to make it better. Prusa is more expensive, but it's also one of the best "cheap" ones out there. SLA with the resin stuff - there are a few working ones that do fine results at about $500, but the resin is more expensive and you are dealing with more hazardous substances. I guess modelers should be used to that. The biggest drawbacks are print size and price.

If you plan on doing walls and diorama backdrops for figures - FDM all the way.

Here are examples of what I can do with my Prusa I3 MK2 printer stock with just some fine tuning and a bit of trial and error to get the specific filament to print nice.
Hellboy
nz1jVPZVI-jOm35j0Gznjw3vrR20-lPY5H1YuegCTSako4B48G7RHx2I0eg?width=1223&height=1630&cropmode=none.jpg

Head is a seperate piece I printed prior in a higher resolution @50 microns while the body is variable layer height for a quicker print. They took about the same amount of time if I recall correctly. Scale is about 1/8. It's a free model of Hellboy made by "Printed Obesession" on Myminifactory if anyone is interested.
VRVZYdn1uPXvdw_r48OUBKDNRmX9sUqfbuPHfLet3tL7MZ_GbwV5Dkaddqg?width=1223&height=1630&cropmode=none.jpg

Here it is again without the head. Sorry for the smudgy pic.

Miniature game size Jabba.
Also a free model available on Thingiverse I think? It's basically the second model I printed before I knew what was what exactly and it turned out pretty great except for the overhanging fingers as I did not use any supports.
Jcp_6QNkGx0Zwd61WTLOvawRySLc13bWKjD3_sSPICO-6VZ8nmQFbtRsXLw?width=1630&height=1223&cropmode=none.jpg
I hope that gives you an idea of what you can do with an FDM printer besides mechanical and functional parts.
 

Nm1cciola

Active Member
For you I would recommend a SLA LCD printer. They are a bit more expensive (in some cases a lot more) but will give you the quality and probably much less post processing work to get rid of layer lines. But a really good FDM starter printer is the one I started out on and still have, a Creality CR-10S.
You really have to look at your needs, and how it correlates to your budget.

TazMan2000

Thnx yeah was looking at those and while I do like the print quality on those what I will say that I don't like is Price Point, SUPER EXPENSIVE that and I did notice that there is a longer process for those prints having to wash them in some cases and having them to dry via UV light. With all that being said it super tempting.
 
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Nm1cciola

Active Member
IF you get a printer - any printer - be prepared to tinker. It's not a consumer product as of yet. There are so many things that affect print quality on both the mechanical side and the software side, that you will have to put in the time and effort to get the best out of it. Even if it's supposedly plug and play - you will undoubtebly need to do adjustments and maintenence down the line. It does not have to be a big deal or difficult even - just saying, be prepared.

I would suggest getting an FDM printer to start as they are much cheaper overall and with some fine tuning can produce amazing results. I got a Prusa MK2 and while it was not flawless I got proper warranty (with help) and replacement parts and also the benefit of an involved community and lots of official support. I would say a Creality ender 3 (that's a about $200) would be a good starting point. You might want to do a youtube search and you'll see a bunch of stuff you should do from the get go to make it better. Prusa is more expensive, but it's also one of the best "cheap" ones out there. SLA with the resin stuff - there are a few working ones that do fine results at about $500, but the resin is more expensive and you are dealing with more hazardous substances. I guess modelers should be used to that. The biggest drawbacks are print size and price.

If you plan on doing walls and diorama backdrops for figures - FDM all the way.

Here are examples of what I can do with my Prusa I3 MK2 printer stock with just some fine tuning and a bit of trial and error to get the specific filament to print nice.
Hellboy
View attachment 989862
Head is a seperate piece I printed prior in a higher resolution @50 microns while the body is variable layer height for a quicker print. They took about the same amount of time if I recall correctly. Scale is about 1/8. It's a free model of Hellboy made by "Printed Obesession" on Myminifactory if anyone is interested.
View attachment 989863
Here it is again without the head. Sorry for the smudgy pic.

Miniature game size Jabba.
Also a free model available on Thingiverse I think? It's basically the second model I printed before I knew what was what exactly and it turned out pretty great except for the overhanging fingers as I did not use any supports.
View attachment 989864
I hope that gives you an idea of what you can do with an FDM printer besides mechanical and functional parts.

Thnx for the response I was looking up the quality that you can get with and FDM printer and was noticing that there is a lot of trial and error to getting some prints to look as good as you can get them. I was actually looking at the Creality ender 3 TBH especially the upgrades and stuff to make it better and was intrigued. Was kinda turned off by the Resin SLA printer TBH while it looks like you get awesome print quality it seems like there more post process work (I.E washing and curing) as well as the horror stories that I read on amazon where the Resin tank broke all of leaked so I was pretty cautious of that.

Will think of printing those files you embedded as test or actual ones to print and paint they look good, I v'e been watching the 3D prints nerds channel on youtube just to get more info on such things.
 

Nm1cciola

Active Member
TO whomever does come across this I just want to see if the response I did receive from 3D HIs was false information or not so when I asked a rep at 3D HUBS "what would you say based on your experience would be the best material to print this in?. Something where there’s not so much post work in regards to sanding print layers, etc while still being able hold a lot of detail. Looking forward to your response."

what I received in kind was
"Please find attached another quote with MJF technology and nylon material. I think this might be the most suitable for your needs. For more information" and link to this article. which some choice quotes from the article are:

-"Parts printed in both technologies have a grainy surface finish, but can be post-processed to a very high standard. If aesthetic appeal is the main requirement, dying is highly recommended."
-"The main material used in both processes is PA 12 (nylon). When printing in this material, MJF parts have superior strength and flexibility"
- "On the other hand, only PA is currently available in MJF and important engineering properties, such as impact strength and creep characteristics, are not widely available."

Now a quick google search I found that this type of filament was used to print and manufacture stuff that highly durable and flexible such as water bottle holder for a bike etc. I do find it a little weird that for such uses as I was looking for that this type of material is what I would want to print in?. IF I could just get confirmation on this would be greatly appreciated. (To whomever reads this I do know based on the research that I've done that one can get great quality on an FDM printer but I just want to know if the quality with nylon is really that different?).
 

basementdweller

Active Member
I don't think you need to worry about anyone from 3DHubs lying, but I don't think you are getting the full picture. Unless you got a price that says different I'd venture a guess that the cost of printing that entire Batman scene at 3Dhubs will cost you significantly more than you buying a printer and printing it yourself. The $46 quote on the page was for 24 cubic centimeters. You are looking at a few kg of material here, not grams. Don't forget shipping costs. The cost of printing this on FDM is roughly $20 to $30 per kg depending on material. Running costs are largely negligable. I can't imagine this costing less than $60 in materials printed at home (The whole shebang if it's 2 kg) and several days of print time. Quickly browsing over that link you shared - they print at a lower res than what I am capable of at home (I can do better details). This is not the intended use of their services afaict. The example is for mechanical parts that need structural strength and accuracy which is what nylon is usually used for. Nylon is a ##!!!! to paint. It's not a good material choice for your intended use.

TLDR:
If you want top quality with no post processing, you are looking at several hundreds or even thousands of dollars at a firm that specialises in figures and statues that print in resin. Even doing a large scale like this at Shapeways will cost way more than it's worth based on volume alone. 3DHubs will not be cheaper.

Here is some unsolicited opinions and advice if you are up for it.
If you want this printed then you need to find someone with a printer that has a track record of good prints that is willing to print this for a reasonable sum at the resolution you want it - or just let them handle it if they know what they are doing. The wall and backdrops will look awesome at low res and will only need a quick primer and sanding to fill out the layer lines from the low res. Printing those at high res is a complete waste of time and just unnecessary wear on the printer. 3Dhubs used to offer that connection before, but I don't think they do anymore. You could get a turd from someone who knew nothing about 3D printing offering their services if you were unlucky enough.

There is no post process on the pieces I printed above and I'd say you can sometimes get away with just a good priming. Unless you have a badly calibrated printer you won't have terribly visible layer lines. Of course all printers aren't created equal. At lower print resolution, you will see some layer lines and you will always see stepping in acute angles regardless of resolution. Using a slicer (the software that prepares your 3D file) with variable layer height you can mitigate it to the bare minimum by upping the resolution in those high angle areas. I would go oldschool and prime it with either a filler primer or do a "milliput bath" with water diluted milliput as a filler on the areas that are rough and then sand. There is no magical material that takes away that step in FDM printing anyway. There is an art to printing though and how you orient and cut up pieces to be printed makes a world of difference.

As for material: Just PLA for pure health reasons, price and ease of working. You can print with HIPS (polystyrene like most kits are made of) and it will take your normal plastic weld glue etc and sand easily, but the nano particles produced when printing with ABS and HIPS according to studies are significantly higher than printing with PLA. PLA is just great, easy to print with practically no shrinkage.

As an aside: 3D printing Nerd is like an entertainment show for 3D printing. While I like the guy, he comes from a completely different angle like a lot of the 3D printing channels out there. Their idea of detail and quality differs in magnitude from what a modeler or miniature enthusiast would equate with quality. Any form of tumbling or printing in ABS with acetone vapours is not a route you want to go if you like details. There is no shortcut. You should look at channels that specifically target minis for gaming. That will help you the most in terms of settings for a high detail print.
 

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Nm1cciola

Active Member
I don't think you need to worry about anyone from 3DHubs lying, but I don't think you are getting the full picture. Unless you got a price that says different I'd venture a guess that the cost of printing that entire Batman scene at 3Dhubs will cost you significantly more than you buying a printer and printing it yourself. The $46 quote on the page was for 24 cubic centimeters. You are looking at a few kg of material here, not grams. Don't forget shipping costs. The cost of printing this on FDM is roughly $20 to $30 per kg depending on material. Running costs are largely negligable. I can't imagine this costing less than $60 in materials printed at home (The whole shebang if it's 2 kg) and several days of print time. Quickly browsing over that link you shared - they print at a lower res than what I am capable of at home (I can do better details). This is not the intended use of their services afaict. The example is for mechanical parts that need structural strength and accuracy which is what nylon is usually used for. Nylon is a ##!!!! to paint. It's not a good material choice for your intended use.

TLDR:
If you want top quality with no post processing, you are looking at several hundreds or even thousands of dollars at a firm that specialises in figures and statues that print in resin. Even doing a large scale like this at Shapeways will cost way more than it's worth based on volume alone. 3DHubs will not be cheaper.

Here is some unsolicited opinions and advice if you are up for it.
If you want this printed then you need to find someone with a printer that has a track record of good prints that is willing to print this for a reasonable sum at the resolution you want it - or just let them handle it if they know what they are doing. The wall and backdrops will look awesome at low res and will only need a quick primer and sanding to fill out the layer lines from the low res. Printing those at high res is a complete waste of time and just unnecessary wear on the printer. 3Dhubs used to offer that connection before, but I don't think they do anymore. You could get a turd from someone who knew nothing about 3D printing offering their services if you were unlucky enough.

There is no post process on the pieces I printed above and I'd say you can sometimes get away with just a good priming. Unless you have a badly calibrated printer you won't have terribly visible layer lines. Of course all printers aren't created equal. At lower print resolution, you will see some layer lines and you will always see stepping in acute angles regardless of resolution. Using a slicer (the software that prepares your 3D file) with variable layer height you can mitigate it to the bare minimum by upping the resolution in those high angle areas. I would go oldschool and prime it with either a filler primer or do a "milliput bath" with water diluted milliput as a filler on the areas that are rough and then sand. There is no magical material that takes away that step in FDM printing anyway. There is an art to printing though and how you orient and cut up pieces to be printed makes a world of difference.

As for material: Just PLA for pure health reasons, price and ease of working. You can print with HIPS (polystyrene like most kits are made of) and it will take your normal plastic weld glue etc and sand easily, but the nano particles produced when printing with ABS and HIPS according to studies are significantly higher than printing with PLA. PLA is just great, easy to print with practically no shrinkage.

As an aside: 3D printing Nerd is like an entertainment show for 3D printing. While I like the guy, he comes from a completely different angle like a lot of the 3D printing channels out there. Their idea of detail and quality differs in magnitude from what a modeler or miniature enthusiast would equate with quality. Any form of tumbling or printing in ABS with acetone vapours is not a route you want to go if you like details. There is no shortcut. You should look at channels that specifically target minis for gaming. That will help you the most in terms of settings for a high detail print.

Thank for your response and your candor in regards to this subject. As newbie wanting to come into this hobby it's informative. Personally i'm okay with copious amount of sanding to a get a desired effect, as a person who works on models kits I am used to that. I was more or less was looking for an answer that wouldn't have me sanding for pretty much 10-12 hours, but as you state thats more or less where the settings for print come into play as well as experience. I figured to get no print lines that to print the scene would be quite costly. I personally wouldn't print the whole diorama just the base excluding the buildings as well as the bat signal. I thank you for the verification on the nylon I figured that might have been the wrong material for what I was looking for but you verifying it defiantly put the nail on the coffin for that question. I was actually looking to purchase the Creality ender 3 printer after doings some research and seeing what upgrades can be purchased to upgrade the machine.

Lastly I do have a few questions does it matter what PLA you use to print I am aware that there are different PLA's to print with but I am speaking in regards to manufactures, does the way one place makes their regular Filament completely change the way a print comes out from the way another manufacture makes their regular PLA filament?.

And is there a certain setup via "G-CODE" or setting, (IDK terminology?) that works for most prints or is it really each and every print is a snowflake and due to that there is no general settings universally accepted when printing a piece?

Looking forward to you response. Sorry if my questions might be a bit vague at what I'm trying to get at.
 
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basementdweller

Active Member
Thank for your response and your candor in regards to this subject.

You are welcome. While there is a ton of info out there it's not always easy to sift through I guess.

Lastly I do have a few questions does it matter what PLA you use to print I am aware that there are different PLA's to print with but I am speaking in regards to manufactures, does the way one place makes their regular Filament completely change the way a print comes out from the way another manufacture makes their regular PLA filament?.

Short answer: YES.

Long answer:
Do print tests with every single filament you buy and log the results. Print temperature differs for optimal adherence and optimal surface finish. It also differs between manufacturers. My particular filament is recommended to print at 210 C, but prints best at 185C for me. Getting retraction settings right and Z-hop etc to minimise stringing is something you hopefully won't have to mess with after having done it once. Bridging and angle tests are good too, to see how your filament performs at different temps ang overhangs. Having a stringing test ready at the start of every new filament is a good idea though if you really want "quality" in your prints as one roll of filament can differ slightly from the next batch from the same manufacturer. A test takes a few minutes to print and you will learn to recognise what the results mean and what to adjust in the settings if anything. Temperature is usually the most obvious one.

How a filament has been stored and dampness in the room will affect it etc. There are also plain bad filaments out there. You should do a search on recommended PLA for what is available to you. I've heard good things about Hatchbox, but it's not available to me.

There are also PLAs out there with additives that change the characteristics. I've found that PLA performs way better than expected even in practical use. How you choose to construct and slice your model does a lot for structural integrity. I would recommend watching "CNC Kitchen" for understanding the gist of that.

And is there a certain setup via "G-CODE" or setting, (IDK terminology?) that works for most prints or is it really each and every print is a snowflake and due to that there is no general settings universally accepted when printing a piece?

Looking forward to you response. Sorry if my questions might be a bit vague at what I'm trying to get at.

Short answer: Every print is a snowflake :D

Long Answer:
Ok, so your slicer software basically slices your model into 2D layers and outputs that as GCODE that is simplified: "hey printer, heat up to 230C and go from X to Y pushing out this amount of plastic at this speed" that specifically builds the model you chose to slice with your specific profile and printer settings. The general settings in that software will be the same every time for your printer (motor steps, currents and a ton of other stuff). You might have different profiles for different qualities like for instance "fine" or "fast" that are either preset or set by you to tell the printer at what layer height to print, the nozzle size, speeds, acceleration and temperature etc. You might save different profiles that are material specific to record your results as per the above pointers in my prior answer.

When you choose a model to print, you will pick a profile that fits your needs and then you will most likely adjust temperature, infill, perimeters and top/bottom layers to suit the needs. Then you slice and look at the results in your software before printing so you avoid unnecessary disappointments :D This is not something that is difficult - it just take a bit of printing to understand how it affects your prints.

What you need to learn is how to properly orient your models, how and when to cut them up for better prints and how and where to place supports. It's fairly logical as a concept, but it takes a fair bit of trial and error in practice and getting fairly intimate with your printer...
TLDR; Watch a few vids, print a lot of models to understand what does what in practice.
 

Nm1cciola

Active Member
I appreciated the advice that was given in this thread and have made my decision into getting the ender 3 and am now researching it exclusively. Now with all that out of the way I was wondering if there is any good general advice in regards to 3D printers that just universally accepted, (keep in mind that I have been searching and already have an idea of some )?, Also is there any good programs that anyone has used weather it be slicing or just modeling, any that are good for a beginner in particular?. I have used Maya 3d and am familiar with it, and In the research that I have done it seems there is A LOT of slicing programs (fusion 360, meshmixer, etc) and it's a bit confusing which is good for a beginner. Any advice in this query is appreciated.
 

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basementdweller

Active Member
I use Slic3r prusa edition exclusively as a slicer. I can't tell you about anything else. It's free and it does variable layer heights beautifully.

Meshmixer is not a slicer per se, but an invaluable tool for cutting meshes, combining them, keying parts and generating supports. You can also decimate meshes (lowering the resolution). Get it and learn how to use it. It's free. It even has functions that lets you orient parts in regards to what you value most for instance strength vs as little supports as possible.

CAD software: Just go with Fusion360 if you have no priors. Maya is not CAD software hmm... Maya is for presentation where the endgoal is usually to make something look pretty and you use any means to which you can achieve that (basically cheating is not cheating here), while CAD is the polar opposite. The philosophy behind how you work is fundamentally different even if it doesn't look all that different. The way the software models is also different. In the end it won't matter for 3D printing because you convert all the files to an STL for printing. STL's have a finite resolution like a bitmap instead of a vector file. You can think of MAYA as photoshop, while CAD software like Fusion360 is akin to a vector imaging software like Illustrator or (RIP) Flash, the best piece of software ever made.
Fusion 360 is free for students and enterprises if you make less than 100k a year. It's a proper fully parametric modelling suite with FEM analysis and even metal bending, besides "sculpting" and also has a CNC part for producing your g-code for CNCs. Not a slicer though. I primarily use this for CAD work. You can even do circumstantial variables within the parametric modelling which is awesome.

OpenSCAD is really useful if you are oldschool or used to coding, very powerful for mechanical and simpler parts and opensource.

3D Modelling: Maya is golden if you are rich or have access to it through school or work, but for mortals I'd say BLENDER all the way. It does everything MAYA does and more for free. If you want a modelling package that you can do basically everything in and 3D "sketch" style build besides sculpting - there is nothing else out there that is as complete and powerful as blender with such a large community and following.

For sculpting I'd say Blender and sculptris are free, there are even a few other opensource alternatives that escape me atm. Also get a pressure sensitive stylus for sculpting.

For newbies: I hear tinkercad is easy. I would say go straight to Fusion360 and watch some tuts on youtube from lars christiansen(?) There is just so many good tutorials out there you might as well learn to use a software that won't limit you at any time. It depends on what you are striving for though.
While you can "wing it" model in CAD, it's not it's strength and will probably be a bit awkward and slow. For just pulling and pushing and cutting and more akin to slapping stuff together where you aren't bothered with precision or the parametric functionality - you want a 3d modeller like Blender. They all have their place and I'd say all of the above software are tools in your arsenal.
 

Nm1cciola

Active Member
So I pulled the trigger on this bought the Ender 3 Was a fairy simple build process I did some upgrades on the machine. I purchased:

A) FYSETC 3D Printer Motherboard Accessories 0.31 in OD 0.78 in Length Compression Springs Light Load for Creality CR-10 10S S4 Ender 3 Heatbed Springs Bottom Connect Leveling - 10 Pack

B) Upgrade 3D Printer Parts MK8 Extruder Aluminum Alloy Block Bowden Extruder 1.75mm Filament for Creality 3D Ender 3,CR-7,CR-8, CR-10, CR-10S, CR-10 S4, and CR-10 S5

C) Capricorn Bowden PTFE Tubing XS Series 1 Meter for 1.75mm Filament (Genuine Capricorn Premium Tubing)

All of these I changed b/c after some research I saw these were problems that could affect the printer and the prints down the line and they were cheap so I figured why not upgrade. One thing I am noticing being a GAINT pain in the ass right now is bed leveling I had it for a few days now I am using CHEP bed leveling G Code with a regular sheet of paper to assist with that process but I am finding it tedious to say the least. Also I am having difficulty leveling it as well I am having a Goldilocks problem trying to choose the correct amount of resistance that there should be between the nozzle and the printer. This is a long way of saying that I was researching Auto bed leveling I was looking at "The EZABL Kit" the one that is specifically the plug and play version ( i'm not good at soldering) anyway I was wondering if that is a good option or are there others that I should consider looking at. On the flip side does anyone have another method of leveling the bed aside from the paper trick and the live bed leveling method?.

Lastly are there any other upgrades that I should think of getting or at least consider?
SIDENOTE:
I was already thinking about purchasing
A) Upgraded NEMA 17 Stepper Steel and Rubber Vibration Dampers with M3 Screw -CNC for 3D Printer Creality CR-10, CR-10S Machine CNC 3D Printers (Pack of 3)
B) A silicone sock for the nozzle assembly but there are a lot of listings and don't know which will fit the ender three?
 
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