Babylon 5: The Road Home

[Solo4114]

Yeah, I don't disagree with that. But i will say that it's a massive step up from the DVD versions where the composite live/digital shots look AWFUL. All of that has been fixed, so I'll allow for the upmixing stuff. Essentially, I view that as "This is what they meant it to look like," rather than altering history, as it were.

I wouldn't mind a version that totally overhauls all the CG, but then I start to think it'd look weird alongside the very 90s set dressing, costumes, hair, etc. Not to mention the fact that USA Today has apparently (1) survived, and (2) become, like, Galaxy Today or something, and people are still actually getting hardcopy newspapers in the 23rd century.

When you have stuff like that, I think efforts to overhaul the CG will just seem incongruous, so I'd rather have it be "All 90s, all the time."

 

[VonMagnum]

Yeah, I don't disagree with that. But i will say that it's a massive step up from the DVD versions where the composite live/digital shots look AWFUL. All of that has been fixed, so I'll allow for the upmixing stuff. Essentially, I view that as "This is what they meant it to look like," rather than altering history, as it were.

I wouldn't mind a version that totally overhauls all the CG, but then I start to think it'd look weird alongside the very 90s set dressing, costumes, hair, etc. Not to mention the fact that USA Today has apparently (1) survived, and (2) become, like, Galaxy Today or something, and people are still actually getting hardcopy newspapers in the 23rd century.

When you have stuff like that, I think efforts to overhaul the CG will just seem incongruous, so I'd rather have it be "All 90s, all the time."

Space is space. I think Star Trek TOS looks great with more realistic looking planets, etc. They can keep the same basic designs, but use better textures and lighting effects.

As for newspapers, maybe they make a comeback (same argument can be made for clothing styles), particularly if you can just print/recycle one on the station. I'd much rather read a real newspaper (perhaps downsized to magazine size) than an iPad type device, but then not paying for news is the real reason papers are dead. Why pay for a newspaper when 85% of the news sites are free (with ads)?

I figure the whole thing is an an alternate universe anyway. But even alternate universes have realistic looking textures and lighting effects....

 

[Darth Lars]

As for newspapers, maybe they make a comeback

Maybe they went away where you live.
I read the morning paper with my breakfast every morning.

 

[VonMagnum]

Maybe they went away where you live.
I read the morning paper with my breakfast every morning.

I never said they went away completely. Talk to the other guy who brought it up.

 

[Riceball]

The live action looked fine in HD, but the outside shots were pretty much just upmixed. The effects were OK for the 90s (and I had an Amiga that the pilot was rendered on with Lightwave 3D), but let's face it, they could probably make something now that looks 10x better and more realistic for half the cost. Proper modern effects could make B5 look modern.

That's both true and not true. The effects themselves would look better and possibly take less time, thus money, to create. But that would only apply to the scenes that were CG only like all of the space scenes. Any scene hat combined live action elements wouldn't be as cheap and easy because you'd have to roto out all of the live action elements. From what I understand, they lost the raw green/blue screen masters a long time ago and only have access to the finished composites masters.

 

[VonMagnum]

I don't recall a ton of inside effects, but I'd still take improved outside shots over what we got (not that I don't appreciate some HD over nothing).

And I'd take a new higher priced set with full effects over a "reboot" that's going to need new EVERYTHING and will ultimately still suck as they're not going to improve over most of the main characters IMO. Lando, G'kar, Sheridan and even Garibaldi are virtually irreplaceable, IMO. Then there's the Hollywood environment of today that tends to ruin most projects.

No, an overhaul would be the best choice for fans, IMO, but Hollywood doesn't care about fans, just dollar signs (despite their own actions to ruin things anyway).

I'd still like to see Crusade finished even if meant a 3D cartoon.

 

[corranhornjje]

For anyone interested in the history, a great writeup from 2018 about the quality of things. Basically anything composited you see is a cropped to 16:9 and zoomed 4:3 vhs resolution.

‘Babylon 5’ is great, so why does it look so bad?

When the histories of this golden age of television are written, they will likely begin with The Sopranos. But that would be a mistake because the template a lot of modern-day TV copies was instead created by Babylon 5. A decade before The Wire would be hailed as a "novel for television," B5 was...

www.engadget.com

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

For anyone interested in the history, a great writeup from 2018 about the quality of things. Basically anything composited you see is a cropped to 16:9 and zoomed 4:3 vhs resolution.

‘Babylon 5’ is great, so why does it look so bad?

When the histories of this golden age of television are written, they will likely begin with The Sopranos. But that would be a mistake because the template a lot of modern-day TV copies was instead created by Babylon 5. A decade before The Wire would be hailed as a "novel for television," B5 was...

www.engadget.com

The CGI does look dated, but never takes me out of the show. I think you have a lot of resolution snobs with this stuff, just like video games, where people can't enjoy something if it's not the latest and greatest FX. They should steer clear of Tron or The Last Starfighter.

 

[Cephus]

The CGI does look dated, but never takes me out of the show. I think you have a lot of resolution snobs with this stuff, just like video games, where people can't enjoy something if it's not the latest and greatest FX. They should steer clear of Tron or The Last Starfighter.

Agreed. Anyone who can't just watch things in the spirit of when they were made has problems.

 

[VonMagnum]

There's no need for petty insults for a difference of opinion on here.

Comparing low resolution TV raytraced effects from 1995 that were supposed to be in the future and in the real world of outer space to TRON is absurd. TRON is in full HD already on BD and streaming and could easily be upgraded to full 4K or even 8K given it was made in true 65mm and printed back to 70mm. The movie is supposed to take place in 1982 and is Flynn's perception/interpretation of the mainframe so the graphics are appropriate and the glow effects were excellent, never to be made again. That was (and still is) my favorite movie of all time since I was 8 years old.

The Last Starfighter is a bit more appropriate comparison (I literally just watched the Arrow remaster again four days ago) in that the effects were supposed to be in the real world (arcade test game excluded) and therefore yes, they could be greatly improved.

However, they're nowhere near as bad as Babylon 5 as they were more limited in scope and rendered to high definition equivalent film, not TV. I certainly wouldn't turn down an upgraded CGI version that's still faithful to the original overall designs if they were to make one.

However, nowhere have I suggested Babylon 5 is unwatchable. I have simply suggested I'd rather see its effects upgraded instead of another god awful reboot that tells the same story all over again we've already seen with inferior actors and who knows what kind of 21st Century nonsense added.

 

[corranhornjje]

There's no need for petty insults for a difference of opinion on here.

Comparing low resolution TV raytraced effects from 1995 that were supposed to be in the future and in the real world of outer space to TRON is absurd. TRON is in full HD already on BD and streaming and could easily be upgraded to full 4K or even 8K given it was made in true 65mm and printed back to 70mm. The movie is supposed to take place in 1982 and is Flynn's perception/interpretation of the mainframe so the graphics are appropriate and the glow effects were excellent, never to be made again. That was (and still is) my favorite movie of all time since I was 8 years old.

The Last Starfighter is a bit more appropriate comparison (I literally just watched the Arrow remaster again four days ago) in that the effects were supposed to be in the real world (arcade test game excluded) and therefore yes, they could be greatly improved.

However, they're nowhere near as bad as Babylon 5 as they were more limited in scope and rendered to high definition equivalent film, not TV. I certainly wouldn't turn down an upgraded CGI version that's still faithful to the original overall designs if they were to make one.

However, nowhere have I suggested Babylon 5 is unwatchable. I have simply suggested I'd rather see its effects upgraded instead of another god awful reboot that tells the same story all over again we've already seen with inferior actors and who knows what kind of 21st Century nonsense added.

I'd agree with this on B5. I still enjoy the show, the effects don't take me out of the story and can definitely overlook the quality. My issue wasn't really with the original quality, but more sadness in the loss of the original materials that can't be gone back to to do any restoration.

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

There's no need for petty insults for a difference of opinion on here.

Comparing low resolution TV raytraced effects from 1995 that were supposed to be in the future and in the real world of outer space to TRON is absurd. TRON is in full HD already on BD and streaming and could easily be upgraded to full 4K or even 8K given it was made in true 65mm and printed back to 70mm. The movie is supposed to take place in 1982 and is Flynn's perception/interpretation of the mainframe so the graphics are appropriate and the glow effects were excellent, never to be made again. That was (and still is) my favorite movie of all time since I was 8 years old.

The Last Starfighter is a bit more appropriate comparison (I literally just watched the Arrow remaster again four days ago) in that the effects were supposed to be in the real world (arcade test game excluded) and therefore yes, they could be greatly improved.

However, they're nowhere near as bad as Babylon 5 as they were more limited in scope and rendered to high definition equivalent film, not TV. I certainly wouldn't turn down an upgraded CGI version that's still faithful to the original overall designs if they were to make one.

However, nowhere have I suggested Babylon 5 is unwatchable. I have simply suggested I'd rather see its effects upgraded instead of another god awful reboot that tells the same story all over again we've already seen with inferior actors and who knows what kind of 21st Century nonsense added.

I wasn't comparing them, just that they all fit the description of media with out of date CGI that some people can't enjoy unless they are cutting edge FX.

 

[Solo4114]

Finally watched this, since my chronological progression has caught up with it.

I liked it! The animation threw me a little at first, but I settled into it and enjoyed it. I thought the story was good overall. Kinda reminded me of those Stargate SG-1 episodes where they go to alternate timelines/realities, everyone dies, but then at the end they hit a reset button and everything's fine. I enjoy those episodes (mostly), though, so it didn't bother me.

One thing I appreciated was the view of the alternate timeline Babylon 5 where the Shadows invade, which we caught glimpses of in the episodes involving Babylon 4. I was always curious about how that'd play out, so it was neat to see that finally be explored in more detail. I was a little surprised Lyta was there, but whatever, alternate timeline and I guess Andrea Thompson wasn't interested in coming back to play Talia.

With respect to the deceased actors and the new voice actors, I first want to say that I enjoyed all of the performances. Not all of them quite hit the nail on the head as far as mimicry of the actor in question, but they all conveyed the spirit of the actor's performance. In particular, I thought Anthony Hansen really nailed Jerry Doyle's performance as Garibaldi, and Paul Guyet did a terrific job capturing Tim Choate's performance as Zathras (he was also good as Zathras).

Overall, I thought the writing was good and felt like vintage B5. There were a few moments that were a little heavy-handed, such as the bit with the cornfield (it was a bit...wait for iiiiiiiiiit.......corny), which I knew immediately would reappear, but I didn't mind it. It was more like "Ha, ok, nice lampshade guys." Similarly, the reference to copyright infringement in the one joke was on the nose, but I still chuckled even if it kinda broke the fourth wall. Then again, I guess if you're dealing with alternate timelines, there's gotta be a timeline where all of Sheridan's struggles are merely part of a mass media entertainment program, which exist in a world where other similar programs exist including ones dealing with losing one's bearings in space.

Anyway, I'm glad I preordered it. I'd be delighted if they made more of this sort of thing, including if they did a regular or semi-regular series of animated stuff. I think it gives them a lot of freedom if they want to go that route, and we've already seen how a well written animated show can still work for older viewers (e.g., the Clone Wars cartoon, Rebels, etc.). So, here's hoping we see more.

 

[CB2001]

I agree with you on some of these points (I thought the cornfield was a great foreshadow of the moment where Sheridan finally gets to go home). Other than the actors from the original cast, I do feel a lot of the performances caught the spirit of the characters though some did sound slightly off to me (for example, G'Kar. The performance felt dead on, but the voice didn't quite sound close to him at times. The same with Delenn, whose voice sounded a tad bit higher than Mira Furlan's natural voice. Though I do feel that Garibaldi and Zathras, as well as Franklin and Sinclair's voices sounded quite dead on to the actors who passed). I also had no issue with the animation, as I get that they were trying to go with a combination of 2D for most and having 3D when it was necessary (which kinda reminded me of both the live action and 3D elements when they were making the show, as well as The Iron Giant's combination of 2D animation with the 3D generated Giant).

For the story, granted, we already knew that Sheridan was going to get home (I mean, come on, we already know how that story ended), but I do like the fact they leave it open at the end for a possible continuation (and from the Babylon 5 Forever featurette, the original actors are all willing to come back for more animated adventures, just so as long as JMS is doing the writing). Though I know a few people here feel that the film was "fan service", the fact is that the show was also the earliest example of fan service in that same regard (I recall reading that one episode of the show was written to answer a fan's question on the B5 BBS. Not sure how true that is, but it sounds like a nice thing to have been included if it is true). But more importantly, the original show's actors who are left came back not just because they believe in Babylon 5, but they did it not just to pay tribute to the actors lost along the way, but for the fans also. I'm not a diehard B5 fan, but as someone who has watched the show and appreciates it for what it is, I'm interested to see where the story goes with the alternate timeline.

 

[p51]

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

I've only seen BBT off and on, not chronologically, and some Young Sheldon. My guess is that Sheldon has just settled on ST as being the best scifi ever so he's never going to entertain the thought that anything else is as good.

 

[p51]

I must admit I never watched B5, not a single episode.
Same with SG1. I don't diss fans of either or didn't watch them for any specific reason, I just never watched them.
So many years later I'm either case, I can't tell you why I never gave it a chance...

 

[CB2001]

I've only seen BBT off and on, not chronologically, and some Young Sheldon. My guess is that Sheldon has just settled on ST as being the best scifi ever so he's never going to entertain the thought that anything else is as good.

I can't remember if he bad mouthed Farscape or not. But I know he was disappointed when Alphas was cancelled, that he was expecting Firefly to last for a while (like a lot of people), doesn't seem to mind Doctor Who (especially after Amy installs a TARDIS exterior to her bedroom door in hopes of coaxing him to have coitus with him. But, for Sheldon's statement about Babylon 5, I suspect that the executive who was at Warner Brothers who had issues with B5 and lead to it practically being shelved for the 26 years that it had been off the air before TRH was made was still in charge and hard the writers add it in as a "take that" to JMS. I mean, it doesn't seem so surprising if that were the case.

 

[VonMagnum]

Like I care what fictional character Sheldon thinks. That show (BBT) stopped being funny at all after Season 6 (It started turning into the woke/safe version of "Friends" around mid-season 4 instead of being a show like The IT Crowd (which stayed funny until the end) about laughing at geek culture, but the last episode I got any laughs in was in Season 6). I tried to force myself to go back and watch it all just once (after picking up the complete series on iTunes when it was on sale), but I quit again in the middle of the last season. It was just becoming unbearably miserable to watch.

There wasn't a single funny thing in it by that point, IMO. The show was making fun of nerds instead of being about nerd culture interacting with normal people (which IS funny). They couldn't include any high tech references that a normal high school graduate couldn't understand. All the nerds magically got girlfriends (something that rarely happens in the real world; they clearly never heard of the term "INCEL") and everything was about everyone making it big and being happy. WTF does that have to do with an attractive girl moving in next door to two nerdy guys that couldn't get a date unless it was a North Korean spy??? Now that was funny.

Meanwhile, I'd still like to see Crusade finished, even as a cartoon....

 

[CB2001]

Meanwhile, I'd still like to see Crusade finished, even as a cartoon....

Maybe even invite Michael York to appear in an episode of the Crusade cartoon as David "King Arthur" McIntyre from the Babylon 5 episode "A Late Delivery from Avalon." I had read that originally, his character was suppose to be in charge of the Excalibur, but TNT refused because they were worried about making all ship captains be British (and were trying to avoid comparisons to Star Trek, which frankly doesn't make any sense but this was TNT circa 1996, so...).