ANH Hero DL-44 Discussion - Three ANH Greeblies Found

[PoopaPapaPalps]

I totally get that perspective! And yeah, I think some pieces are just generally proportioned to the Denix over a live fire/MGC is because it's the most common replica, which is understandable. I'd just like to replica the 'Naked Runner' style of bull barrel accurately some day is all! Gotta satisfy my OCD somehow.

And do you have any pictures of your build?

If there's a day that a full steel, accurate Mauser kit with enough working internals to mimic the action like the Denix does, and parts that are 100% confirmed accurate with the full breakdown parts available---Oh, man, oh man! Wouldn't that be a grail achievement? It's something I think the community is just on the cusp of.

Anyway, there are a few more photos of my build are on FM's thread (though I really ought to take more recent pics). It's not 100% matched-scratches accurate like others here as it's seasoned to my own tastes, but I'm still really happy with the results. There was something really satisfying cobbling the parts to fit together.

This is the full breakdown taken from from my post at the time:

• Field Marshall full Mauser kit
• Field Marshall steel scope mount
• Field Marshall steel flash hider
• Field Marshall walnut grips
• Todd's Costumes semi-functional steel scope
• Todd's Costumes steel threaded bull barrel
• Todd's Costumes steel flash hider adapter (modified to have FM flash hider fit)
• Todd's Costumes tomtit engine and piston parts

• Hot blued & Cold blued upper & flash hider
• Hot blued rear sight, trigger, mount knobs, side switch, and safety catch
• Cold blued lower and then painted in satin black
• Grill assembled from memory (and later corrected for better accuracy)

There's some spots of rust forming now so it's due for another rubdown with gun oil.

 

[kpax]

IIRC Todd's bull barrel, while proportioned for a Denix, is aestherically very much how the real Hero prop's barrel would have been assembled. I believe it is about an inch too long though, as it accounts for the "booster" that the Hero prop used to generate back pressure to enable the gun to cycle blank rounds.

I was actually considering getting a second Field Marshal steel C96 and having a custom barrel fitted to it at one point, but those are distant ideas still. And I need to finish my first FM kit before moving unto another anyways haha

I don’t know how long Todd’s is…
But the DEC barrels, both the threaded and sleeve fit perfectly and were accurately sized.

THE BOOSTER MYTH:

The “booster” concept was conceived by me and Carson to help center and secure the FH to the barrel. We designed the booster to fit over the barrel and have the FH Allen bolt secure both to the barrel.

The MG81 used a recoil booster with the HERO FH which is where we got the idea. The real booster would sit in the “tube” of the FH behind the cone and would be held there loosely as the FH was screwed on the machine gun barrel with the rear threads. I believe there was a spring in the rear to act as a spring washer lock. The bullet and line knurls are used to get a good grip to tighten the FH in place. The “Allen key bolt holes are for a spammer type wrench not for a bolt. This type of booster is used by gas operated guns to cycle the action.

There is no evidence that the HERO prop used or needed a booster. The c96 is not a gas operated system. The hero used a small bore barrel constrictor to generate back pressure for the blanks. It is possible Carl made a constrictor cone similar to the booster and our design but it did not apparently center the FH on the barrel.

IF the HERO had the original booster cone in the FH it did not center the FH on the barrel because the c96 barrel was a smaller diameter.

If you note the hero images where the FH is tipped up, this is because the FH was simply tightened to the barrel with the Allen bolt and the FH would “pivot” and tip at that point. The FH sat crooked most of the time.

Todd and FM copied the design and the rest as they say is history.

 

[Vanitas]

Perhaps I misspoke; by "booster" I meant the constrictor on the bull barrel which generated the sufficient back pressure. Given how the bull barrel was threaded to accept a rifle barrel, I more or less supposed the idea that the constrictor was made to thread into the bull barrel, which in turn was how the flash hider was mounted (and why it seems to be more or less centered in the pre production images). Certainly later on the flash hider was quite crooked though (probably from all the time Ford dropped the thing), so I wouldn't be surprised if it was stuffed with tape and bubble gun to keep the thing on.

 

[bobasfett]

Note the crossbar flip. The front edge in the pre is slightly angled on the top surface by sloppy file work.

The crossbar slides to the rear in the post image. The crossbar holes were likely enlarged to allow a bit of adjustment accounting for some discrepancies in scope angle in some images.

Note the gouge consistent from Carl to post.





View attachment 1550024

Good catch and never saw it mentioned before. I just noticed this recently and mentioned it to lonepigeon. We will never know, but I always question 'why' i.e. was it intentional or just a screw up during reassembly after painting the crossbar. Knowing how things happen during the production, my default is always the latter.

 

[thd9791]

Excellent info thank you! Boy... what I wouldn't give to see the production constrictor. We love the V2 saber for the fact that it rattles, I would love a part that doesn't exactly fit, letting the FH be crooked

I don’t know how long Todd’s is…
But the DEC barrels, both the threaded and sleeve fit perfectly and were accurately sized.

THE BOOSTER MYTH:

The “booster” concept was conceived by me and Carson to help center and secure the FH to the barrel. We designed the booster to fit over the barrel and have the FH Allen bolt secure both to the barrel.

The MG81 used a recoil booster with the HERO FH which is where we got the idea. The real booster would sit in the “tube” of the FH behind the cone and would be held there loosely as the FH was screwed on the machine gun barrel with the rear threads. I believe there was a spring in the rear to act as a spring washer lock. The bullet and line knurls are used to get a good grip to tighten the FH in place. The “Allen key bolt holes are for a spammer type wrench not for a bolt. This type of booster is used by gas operated guns to cycle the action.

There is no evidence that the HERO prop used or needed a booster. The c96 is not a gas operated system. The hero used a small bore barrel constrictor to generate back pressure for the blanks. It is possible Carl made a constrictor cone similar to the booster and our design but it did not apparently center the FH on the barrel.

IF the HERO had the original booster cone in the FH it did not center the FH on the barrel because the c96 barrel was a smaller diameter.

If you note the hero images where the FH is tipped up, this is because the FH was simply tightened to the barrel with the Allen bolt and the FH would “pivot” and tip at that point. The FH sat crooked most of the time.

Todd and FM copied the design and the rest as they say is history.

 

[kpax]

Perhaps I misspoke; by "booster" I meant the constrictor on the bull barrel which generated the sufficient back pressure. Given how the bull barrel was threaded to accept a rifle barrel, I more or less supposed the idea that the constrictor was made to thread into the bull barrel, which in turn was how the flash hider was mounted (and why it seems to be more or less centered in the pre production images). Certainly later on the flash hider was quite crooked though (probably from all the time Ford dropped the thing), so I wouldn't be surprised if it was stuffed with tape and bubble gun to keep the thing on.

Could be. But threading something on the end of a barrel "could" be dangerous. Could have been a welded plug with a small diameter bore hole ?

The angles of the FH tilt coincide with the screw being the pivot point which extended a bit further into the FH than your sketch but not far enough ( if the bull barrel was the same as the NR barrel) to reach the screw. It needed something to hold the FH on the barrel and keep it safe and secure. Maybe Carl made a simple ring and welded it on the barrel or made a small diameter booster cone and welded it on? Just sliding it in without using the rear threading to secure it to the barrel like the MG81, the FH would fly off first shot.

Maybe a "booster" like part but not long enough to stop the tilting? However it was made it allowed the FH to rock and roll but kept it on... as far as we know.

 

[kpax]

Excellent info thank you! Boy... what I wouldn't give to see the production constrictor. We love the V2 saber for the fact that it rattles, I would love a part that doesn't exactly fit, letting the FH be crooked

It would be great to see more production images.!

Not sure which parts you have but if you shave down the "booster" area a bit to allow some wobble it will tilt like you want.
Wouldn't take much. Just a little loose and it will tilt.

 

[chubsANDdoggers]

You really have to just try to remove the mount. Explains it all.
The DEC version will replicate the crossbar pattern exactly.

To be fair there are two version of the DEC mount correct? One looks to be ultra accurate while the other that most are familiar with doesn’t even have a dovetail. So that can be confusing is all..

 

[kpax]

To be fair there are two version of the DEC mount correct? One looks to be ultra accurate while the other that most are familiar with doesn’t even have a dovetail. So that can be confusing is all..

Yes.

I always try to remember to include and make a point that I am referring to the original steel mount.

DEC also makes a cast mount that Dave made to be less expensive. It is simplified to reduce cost and make assembly easier. Still looks good but is not as hyper accurate as the steel mount.

 

[chubsANDdoggers]

I can’t speak to Todd’s mount but I did help FM quite a bit with his. He looked at an old version of mine. So it’s really nice to hear positive feedback on that. My mount was majorly influenced by this thread without question and it still is. I’m still trying to figure it out. I’ve never seen the elite version of the DEC mount in person but I’ve seen many pictures and IMHO it’s by far the gold standard. Nothing has come close and it was made how many years ago now? That’s the thing I don’t think most realize. You can’t copy this mount as it’s not a real world part. You have to create it. The bread crumbs though have been layed and it’s very inspiring to say the least..

 

[chubsANDdoggers]

I don’t want to derail this thread to much but I mentioned a while ago about posting pics of the MS and its antenna greeblies once they arrived. Here is how they came out using info that was discussed previously and then obviously interpreted by myself..

I posted a bunch of pics here (ANH mount arrived as well) if interested..

Solo’s Blaster/Carbine

Recently did some remodeling on my Helsoldt design.. The oval head screw I can’t find short enough so I did two designs. This one is similar to how I attach my scope wheel on my old design. 4 screws in total. 2 to hold the base to the scope and 2 more to hold the wheel itself on. I offset...

www.therpf.com

 

[kpax]

Nice work. Thanks for sharing the link.

 

[chubsANDdoggers]

Of course and thanks kpax

 

[deadbolt]

Keep in mind that the NR pistol seems to be the 'hero' of that particular film in our available reference, a likely 2nd extra Mauser set seems to have been made that eventually became the Hero DL-44. Note the the R&H pistol particularly, which has the same upper, lock-frame and possibly lower as well as the ANH Hero blaster, but has no lock on the barrel like the NR hero has...very odd, but still the same modifications for the most part.

I think there was also a scene in NR that showed the Mauser firing without the rifle barrel attached? I could be wrong though.
If so, that would mean that the Mausers were already plugged for blank-fire despite the threaded bull-barrel and attachments.
Though the tiny hole added to the ANH Hero's muzzle inside the FH does seem to be sufficient for the same purpose..


-Carson

 

[Vanitas]

Keep in mind that the NR pistol seems to be the 'hero' of that particular film in our available reference, a likely 2nd extra Mauser set seems to have been made that eventually became the Hero DL-44. Note the the R&H pistol particularly, which has the same upper, lock-frame and possibly lower as well, but has no lock on the barrel like the NR hero has...very odd, but still the same modifications for the most part.

I think there was also a scene in NR that showed the Mauser firing without the rifle barrel attached? I could be wrong though.
If so, that would mean that the Mausers were already plugged for blank-fire despite the threaded bull-barrel and attachments.
Though the tiny hole added to the ANH Hero's muzzle inside the FH does seem to be sufficient for the same purpose..


-Carson

You may be thinking of this, where the NR prop was almost used without any of the additional components (extended rifle barrel, scope, etc), but it was not. I would personally imagine that the threaded barrel extension was what was 'plugged' so as to generate the necessary back pressure, as the initial bull barrel seems like it was just welded on, and likely would have been fully fireable as-is.

 

[kpax]

The bull barrel wasn’t welded on. It was fit to the Mauser same as any rebarreling. Threaded like a revolver. There is a nice clean seam line. Not closed by a weld.

But the small muzzle bore we see in the photo of Ford may only be for debris or to increase or concentrate visible “flash” through the FH to look cool on camera.

At 1:45 the ST Mauser fires full auto with nice flash and no visible constrictor or booster.

Sometimes… extra barrel weight ie: FH+bull barrel you may need booster to cycle. But not being a gas operated system,,,

Also the Mauser c96 fired blanks as a rifle in NR snd that barrel is much heavier.

Depends on loads and spring weight.
They used 1/2 and quarter loads. With a light spring it may operate ok.

Wish we knew more.

Play at .25 to see a nice flame and cycle action.

Something to think about.

 

[MastahBlastah]

I spy another star wars found item in that clip!

 

[kpax]

Oliver reed?

 

[deadbolt]

I spy another star wars found item in that clip!

Were those model goggles used somewhere in ESB?
..I didn't notice, I haven't studied those yet haha


-Carson

 

[MastahBlastah]

Were those model goggles used somewhere in ESB?
..I didn't notice, I haven't studied those yet haha


-Carson

Yep! Looks like they may have painted them white, but they're the same classic RAF goggles that Luke wears on Tattooine. They come in a handful of colors, but Luke's are all black.