Accident on the set of Rust.

[JPH]

I called my bookie and bet that AB will not go to jail and will get house arrest instead (2 years max.) and will do volunteer work.

And his Community Control Officer will have a personalized pic of AB on his desk before his term is out

 

[gregory]

BS! The only thing he's devastated about is how this will affect his ability to create/keep more wealth. What he could become??? A crusader for gun safety???? What fairy land do you live in? How do you know he'll never touch a firearm again? Raise money for others.... come on now! No, he killed someone, prison at least.

Martha Stewart went to prison but Alec Baldwin should get a soapbox?

 

[joberg]

Martha Stewart went to prison but Alec Baldwin should get a soapbox?

Looking at some crimes (killing/injuring people) vs. white-collar crimes (involving a lot of money), it seems to me that U.S. laws take the money aspect more seriously than the killing/injuring people. Bernie Madoff is one case coming to mind (150 years)
He didn't kill anybody...just de-frauded rich greedy people who wanted more zeroes in their bank accounts.

 

[gregory]

As a physician, I've seen "stuff." If the investigators in the case feel that a crime occurred, then they will press charges. And, for argument's sake, let's say that the following happens:
1) Baldwin (as either a producer on the film/actor that pulled the trigger/ or both) is found guilty of involuntary manslaughter, then I am assuming he would appeal the decision, if possible.
2) But if ultimately guilty in a criminal court, the punishment would most likely require some jail time (and possible monetary award to the families injured).
3) All political opinions of AB aside please, but it appears that AB is devastated by what happened. Certainly will suffer mentally for quite some time. What "good" does it do to incarcerate him in the prison system? I know there is state law that would govern and direct this, but does incarcerating him do anything to help the situation? Yes... serve as an example, pay the price the law demands, exact a pound of flesh, etc...

...but there was no malice involved, he is NEVER going to touch a firearm again, he could become a crusader for gun safety and use his talent and Hollywood connections to help raise additional monies/foundations/scholarships in the victim(s) names, set up a college fund for her children, etc.

Isn't there a better way to honor her memory and pay his debt to society than to rot in a jail cell and think about what he's done?

Perhaps Bill Cosby could team up with Alec Baldwin? The pair of Crusaders could raise money and awareness for victims of gun violence and rape with a standup tour.

Might there be a dangerous precedent here if we reward an anti-gun advocate a soapbox rather than punishment when he causes the death of a human being?

Full disclosure: I’m a fan of Baldwins work on 30 Rock and I cut him a lot of slack with his issues over the years. But I’m not ashamed to say I draw the line at the slaughter of innocents when it comes to my support.

You will not improve results by lowering standards. This event is the poster child for what *Not* to do. Anything other than a real consequence is spitting in the face of everyone who obeys the rules, and an outrage to anyone who received worse consequence for a lesser offense.

I am sure prisons are filled with remorseful people, but Baldwin went out of his way to save money, hire a noob, ignored basic gun safety....

You are a physician. If a doc kills a patient through gross negligence, to the point where every doc that looks at the case says, "he IGNORED every protocol, every standard" and his board let's him (or her) go, because he's remorseful. "Dont worry, he'll do a PSA, and just dont ever do that procedure again." *wink*

I think every doc that ever lost their license or was sanctioned for a lesser offense would have just been crapped upon. The victim's family, totally crapped upon.

It should be irrelevant that he is a celebrity or, actually he should have initially gone by a much higher standard than a lower standard.

is this an appeal for two sets of rules? Peons vs celebrities. People who pretend for a living are now granted granted immunity from killing?

*if* (and that's a big if) he goes to prison, you would never get total compliance from any industry, but you would get a LOT more compliance if no one wanted to end up in jail.

If he walks, then it is all a joke. The Baldwin Defense.

How many med-mal cases involve the doc doing everything right, but sued for an uncontrolable outcome.? The ratio is staggering.

Meanwhile, Baldwin knowingly screws up on multiple levels and people entertain the idea of him walking.

He killed someone.

He didnt sprain someone's ankle, didnt run over someone's bike, he ignored protocols and KILLED someone.

He is not better or more important than YOU or anyone you care about.

EDIT

Letting Baldwin walk would be the ULTIMATE political move.

 

[DarthWilder]

Martha Stewart went to prison but Alec Baldwin should get a soapbox?

And Martha Stewart went to jail for the crime of "lying to federal prosecutors" (not SEC violations).

 

[Axlotl]

"Slaughter of innocents"?
This thread is insane.

 

[gregory]

And Martha Stewart went to jail for the crime of "lying to federal prosecutors" (not SEC violations).

"Slaughter of innocents"?
This thread is insane.

But Alec Baldwin as the Crusader for victims of gun violence is sane right?

 

[batguy]

I wonder what happens to the unfinished film now.

The amount of money that will be shifted around by the accident (legal fees, taxpayer cost, news stories, settlements, etc) is probably far higher than the movie ever would have earned if it hadn't happened.

 

[DarthWilder]

I wonder what happens to the unfinished film now.

The amount of money that will be shifted around by the accident (legal fees, taxpayer cost, news stories, settlements, etc) is probably far higher than the movie ever would have earned if it hadn't happened.

So true! In the end, all the corner-cutting on safety was "penny wise and pound foolish" with this production.

 

[blewis17]

So true! In the end, all the corner-cutting on safety was "penny wise and pound foolish" with this production.

...and that ultimately is what will decide the outcome. In the United States, the legal system often does not follow what is moral and ethical, but what is technically legal. I can see the possibility that AB may somehow not "technically" be found guilty for pulling the trigger, but instead found guilty for being a producer on the film and therefore responsible for inadequate safety protocols or lack thereof.

 

[Moviefreak]

"Slaughter of innocents"?
This thread is insane.

I know. Despite what people want to profess, some of the comments here are mostly their political views shinning through. AB is anti-gun = bad man. AB portrayed a certain person on Saturday Night Live = bad man. There is a personal vendetta against him and it is glaringly obvious. If this were someone who shared their same views, they would be bending over backward to support them. I just don’t understand why EVERYTHING needs to become a political argument these days.

 

[blewis17]

Looking at some crimes (killing/injuring people) vs. white-collar crimes (involving a lot of money), it seems to me that U.S. laws take the money aspect more seriously than the killing/injuring people. Bernie Madoff is one case coming to mind (150 years)
He didn't kill anybody...just de-frauded rich greedy people who wanted more zeroes in their bank accounts.

Food for thought: A physician friend of mine "missed" a diagnosis very early in his career when taking care of a patient, and the patient eventually died. There was a lawsuit, and his attorney told him that from the malpractice standpoint "It's better that a patient die, because it's a one time payment and you're done" rather than suffer a serious/debilitating injury, which is typically a much higher payout from your malpractice carrier than if the patient had died.

 

[Lord Boron]

Bernie Madoff is one case coming to mind (150 years) He didn't kill anybody...just de-frauded rich greedy people who wanted more zeroes in their bank accounts.

Tell that to his son who committed suited over the whole thing. Or the several of his victims who also committed suicide. And it wasn’t just rich people. There were thousands of of everyday people who’s retirement we’re in funds with Madoff. He deserved every year he got!

 

[TazMan2000]

I think some people think the terms "fair" and "legal" (as well as their antonyms), are related. In the justice system they have nothing to do with each other.

TazMan2000

 

[joberg]

So true! In the end, all the corner-cutting on safety was "penny wise and pound foolish" with this production.

It has come to light that the producers refused to get an insurance package that protects them from "Horrific instances"(completion bond) that prevent the film to be completed in case of a catastrophic event. They secured a bond with Chubb that covers a range of potential problems: damage to equipment, injury to cast & crew, death on set. They declined the completion bond that cost 2% of the total budget for the film.
Attorney for Gutierrez-Reed released a statement for his client essentially saying that she was doing two job on set and not concentrating on firearm protocol/handling/safety. Was rebuked by production when asking to do more meetings on safety protocols, additional days to maintain the various weapons and proper time to prepare for gun fire.

 

[joberg]

Tell that to his son who committed suited over the whole thing. Or the several of his victims who also committed suicide. And it wasn’t just rich people. There were thousands of of everyday people who’s retirement we’re in funds with Madoff. He deserved every year he got!

He didn't "kill" anybody...people were defrauded and saw no issues, hence the suicides (two); that were ultimately their decision to do so, not Madoff.

 

[Riceball]

...and that ultimately is what will decide the outcome. In the United States, the legal system often does not follow what is moral and ethical, but what is technically legal. I can see the possibility that AB may somehow not "technically" be found guilty for pulling the trigger, but instead found guilty for being a producer on the film and therefore responsible for inadequate safety protocols or lack thereof.

I can see that, but only because he's a widely known celebrity, any lesser known actor and definitely you or I would likely be brought up on charges of negligence for violating gun safety rules and killing someone as a result. If not in criminal court then almost certainly in a civil suit, most definitely if the judge is either pro or anti-2A. A pro-2A judge would rule in the plaintiff's favor because they would (likely) know about the rules of gun safety and realize the negligence in ignoring them and an anti-2A would rule in favor of the plaintiff because they'd want to make an example of the defendant and to show the evilness of guns.

 

[Riceball]

I know. Despite what people want to profess, some of the comments here are mostly their political views shinning through. AB is anti-gun = bad man. AB portrayed a certain person on Saturday Night Live = bad man. There is a personal vendetta against him and it is glaringly obvious. If this were someone who shared their same views, they would be bending over backward to support them. I just don’t understand why EVERYTHING needs to become a political argument these days.

Regardless, the fact remains that Baldwin is culpable for violating the rules of firearms safety. It doesn't matter that there was actual live ammo on set, that the armorer was inexperienced, or that the AD told Baldwin that the weapon was cold. Any responsible person who's been around firearms (like Baldwin has due to his past movies) would have insisted on either checking the weapon themselves or have whoever was handing the weapon show/demonstrate to them that the weapon was indeed cold. As I've stated in previous comments, trust but verify. Had AB taken the brief amount of time to that, then this tragedy would have been avoided, regardless of the carelessness that apparently went on before the shot was fired.

 

[Psab keel]

Just so we're clear this thread has covered or heavily alluded to the following:

-Liberal/ Conservative Politics
-Gun violence/ Gun control
-Bernie Madoff and financial crimes
-Bill Cosby and rape crimes
-Suicide
-Criminal negligence
-Toxic workplace environments
-Social media and it's relevance to guilt/ admission of guilt/ or absolution of guilt
-Law and forensic evidence related to possible criminal activity
-Fair application of law enforcement for the wealthy

I think the only other bannable topics that haven't been covered are:

-Religion
-Sexuality
-Identity politics
-Race Relations

Is this 4Chan or theRPF?

Ultimately what happened is awful. Downright awful. I think it's high time we have some respect for the dead and their families and let the authorities sort this out. What good is our endless speculation going to do especially when this doesn't personally affect any of us? As far as I'm aware no one here worked on this movie and none of us knew Hutchins or anyone involved. I think we can all agree that when someone dies we should have empathy and try our best to focus on that rather than let the circumstances divide us.

Regardless of anyone's personal feelings on the matter the moderators are likely going to step in if this thread continues to spiral out like it has and that ban hammer may just come out swinging.

 

[Pumpkinhead]

Food for thought: A physician friend of mine "missed" a diagnosis very early in his career when taking care of a patient, and the patient eventually died. There was a lawsuit, and his attorney told him that from the malpractice standpoint "It's better that a patient die, because it's a one time payment and you're done" rather than suffer a serious/debilitating injury, which is typically a much higher payout from your malpractice carrier than if the patient had died.

WTH does this have to do with the main theme of this thread?