28" Hasbro Falcon.

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The Makerman

New Member
Hi guys, I'm just about to embark on the huge task of superdetailing the 28 inch Millennium Falcon.
The last article I read was by Randy Cooper when he built his with his resin and PE additions. But that was a few years ago now so have we learnt anything new in the meantime?
I'm probably going to make my own bits and pieces from resin and styrene but the more information I have on the initial soft plastic model the better.
Andy,
The Makerman
 

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starks

Well-Known Member
Truth be told Id like to hear how these builds hold up.
Polypropylene is not unpaintable... and actually most of the bumpers on late model VW, audi and porsche are all Polypropylene because its cheap. However in manufacturing they're flame treated and coated in a product called hyperprime to have a base to paint on top of.

The flame treatment isnt just waving a torch over it, it's a specific part of a flame for a specific period of time so dont go heating up your plastic.

Without this process to change the surface energy paint just can't stick to it sensibly. I spoke with a chemist and was assured the Polypropylene primers you buy at the hardware store will fail and dont really work.

You might cheat adhesion for a few years but then I suspect living through a few summer/ winter heat cycles its going to start falling off.
If you think automotive plastic adhesion promoters will work forget it, they wont.

I have one of these falcons at home and never bothered once I found was Polypropylene.

All I could come up with as a sensible adhesion suggestion though was MEK.
Polypropylene drain pipes use MEK as a primer before gluing... generally even the glue doesnt stick that well after priming and after time can sort of be chipped off. But perhaps a light coat of pipe primer or MEK through an airbrush ( wear your mask) would open the plastic up to allow primer to bite in.

Now the thicker the paint film the more prone it will be to shrinking back and pulling away. But if you can almost work with the factory colour as a ground and mist your base colour over as more of an overspray you may stand a chance.

I would just hate to see someone go to all the hours and effort of painting this only to have it crumble in their hands in a few years time.

Cheers,
Josh
 

The Makerman

New Member
Truth be told Id like to hear how these builds hold up.
Polypropylene is not unpaintable... and actually most of the bumpers on late model VW, audi and porsche are all Polypropylene because its cheap. However in manufacturing they're flame treated and coated in a product called hyperprime to have a base to paint on top of.

The flame treatment isnt just waving a torch over it, it's a specific part of a flame for a specific period of time so dont go heating up your plastic.

Without this process to change the surface energy paint just can't stick to it sensibly. I spoke with a chemist and was assured the Polypropylene primers you buy at the hardware store will fail and dont really work.

You might cheat adhesion for a few years but then I suspect living through a few summer/ winter heat cycles its going to start falling off.
If you think automotive plastic adhesion promoters will work forget it, they wont.

I have one of these falcons at home and never bothered once I found was Polypropylene.

All I could come up with as a sensible adhesion suggestion though was MEK.
Polypropylene drain pipes use MEK as a primer before gluing... generally even the glue doesnt stick that well after priming and after time can sort of be chipped off. But perhaps a light coat of pipe primer or MEK through an airbrush ( wear your mask) would open the plastic up to allow primer to bite in.

Now the thicker the paint film the more prone it will be to shrinking back and pulling away. But if you can almost work with the factory colour as a ground and mist your base colour over as more of an overspray you may stand a chance.

I would just hate to see someone go to all the hours and effort of painting this only to have it crumble in their hands in a few years time.

Cheers,
Josh
This has been a learning curve to be honest. I spoke to Randy Cooper and he used car plastic primer (for plastic bumpers) on all the surfaces. I think it's a kind of etch primer. His Falcon seems to have held up well. He also recommends using hot glue to fix parts as it to is a kind of vinyl.
He said to make sure the model surface if sanded with 40 grit to give the adhesive more bit.
 

starks

Well-Known Member
This has been a learning curve to be honest. I spoke to Randy Cooper and he used car plastic primer (for plastic bumpers) on all the surfaces. I think it's a kind of etch primer. His Falcon seems to have held up well. He also recommends using hot glue to fix parts as it to is a kind of vinyl.
He said to make sure the model surface if sanded with 40 grit to give the adhesive more bit.

Unfortunately automotive plastic primer wont do much as why I suggested pipe primer.
40g is awfully coarse.
Sanding gives you 2 things, 1 is reduces surface energy and 2 all those sanding scratches actually give you more surface area for the paint to adhere. If his is holding up I think you will find its the sanding doing it. Im still weary that wont flake off though.
Im sorry if this sounds negative on your proposed build, Im excited to see you move forward with it. Im a trade qualified automotive painter for 18 years now and have really studied this trade and paint/ resins/ composites and if I can pass on some knowledge to help you hopefully succeed I would rather say something than nothing.

But nothing ventured, nothing gained so you can only give it a shot with the best knowledge you have. Are you making sidewalls and pieces or did
You buy some?

How about a cockpit? Or just leaving that blacked out?

And what else requires correction on the model?

Cheers,
Josh
 
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The Makerman

New Member
Unfortunately automotive plastic primer wont do much as why I suggested pipe primer.
40g is awfully coarse.
Sanding gives you 2 things, 1 is reduces surface energy and 2 all those sanding scratches actually give you more surface area for the paint to adhere. If his is holding up I think you will find its the sanding doing it. Im still weary that wont flake off though.

But nothing ventured, nothing gained so you can only give it a shot with the best knowledge you have. Are you making sidewalls and pieces or did
You buy some?

How about a cockpit? Or just leaving that blacked out?

Cheers,
Josh
I'm used to scratchbuilding. The pod racer in my avatar was built from scratch so I'm going to build the side walls and landing gear doors. I'm having a bud make me a lighting kit for it. I had intended to build as much of the cockpit as I can. I may spring for a few bits from shapeways later in the build. I'm just planning it at the moment. So we will see.
Andy.
 

Chrisisall

Sr Member
I'm used to scratchbuilding. The pod racer in my avatar was built from scratch so I'm going to build the side walls and landing gear doors.
Andy, when I read your first post I looked it up & checked prices,because yeah, it looked like a totally cool project! Prices however kept me from seriously considering it any further. But if you HAVE it already, HAVE AT IT BRO! I would! You can drill holes & physically anchor parts, sand & use flexible auto primer, then re-sand & use more... but pay attention to what Josh said though... time may not treat some of your work on it well, but hey- this is the FALCON we're talking about! What a piece of junk! A little deterioration here & there over the years might just lend a greater air of authenticity to the piece! Like Jack Burton said, you never know 'till you try.
I'm so gonna follow this!
 

The Makerman

New Member
Andy, when I read your first post I looked it up & checked prices,because yeah, it looked like a totally cool project! Prices however kept me from seriously considering it any further. But if you HAVE it already, HAVE AT IT BRO! I would! You can drill holes & physically anchor parts, sand & use flexible auto primer, then re-sand & use more... but pay attention to what Josh said though... time may not treat some of your work on it well, but hey- this is the FALCON we're talking about! What a piece of junk! A little deterioration here & there over the years might just lend a greater air of authenticity to the piece! Like Jack Burton said, you never know 'till you try.
I'm so gonna follow this!
Yeah, prices have gone up since it came out originally. My wife bought me this for Christmas several years ago and it's sat on top of a wardrobe until now. Another case of people buying four or five and then selling them on ebay for four times the price.
I've spoken to a friend who has already started on his and he's told me to use an adhesion promoter as he used the bumper primer and it peeled off. But I'm sure I'll learn what sticks as I go along.
Andy.
 

starks

Well-Known Member
Andy, when I read your first post I looked it up & checked prices,because yeah, it looked like a totally cool project! Prices however kept me from seriously considering it any further. But if you HAVE it already, HAVE AT IT BRO! I would! You can drill holes & physically anchor parts, sand & use flexible auto primer, then re-sand & use more... but pay attention to what Josh said though... time may not treat some of your work on it well, but hey- this is the FALCON we're talking about! What a piece of junk! A little deterioration here & there over the years might just lend a greater air of authenticity to the piece! Like Jack Burton said, you never know 'till you try.
I'm so gonna follow this!

What are they worth now?. We payed $120 Australian new from memory.
Cheers,
Josh
 

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The Makerman

New Member
Just a quick size comparison with a small 1/241 Revell Falcon I gave a better paint job (or is that worse) to a while back. With all this talk about adhesion I'll have to do some tests on the interior to see what sticks and what doesn't. Before I tackle the hull.
Andy.
 

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