You have never seen the Blade Runner blaster before - PHOTOS RESTORED
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SFPROPS
Sr Member
<div class='quotetop'>(apollo @ Sep 7 2006, 10:53 PM) [snapback]1315330[/snapback]</div>
I'm assuming there will no longer be a run. Rich made it clear that the gun's owner was concerned that with detailed photos available, someone might try to make money off of accurate reproductions. If Rich has agreed with the owner and complied, I can't imagine that he would still be planning on doing something that the owner of the gun is clearly concerned about after taking steps to try and make sure no one else had easy access to the reference in question. That would be kind of disingenuous if he did. The only person who would gain from Rich requesting Karl take down the photos on behalf of the owner would be Rich himself in such a circumstance.
So again..I wouldn't count your replica blasters before they hatch.
I'm assuming there will no longer be a run. Rich made it clear that the gun's owner was concerned that with detailed photos available, someone might try to make money off of accurate reproductions. If Rich has agreed with the owner and complied, I can't imagine that he would still be planning on doing something that the owner of the gun is clearly concerned about after taking steps to try and make sure no one else had easy access to the reference in question. That would be kind of disingenuous if he did. The only person who would gain from Rich requesting Karl take down the photos on behalf of the owner would be Rich himself in such a circumstance.
So again..I wouldn't count your replica blasters before they hatch.
<div class='quotetop'>(The Dude @ Sep 7 2006, 10:54 PM) [snapback]1315331[/snapback]</div>
When haven't we shared with the community when we could?
Aren't we happy that this stuff came out in the first place?
Why are we so upset?
Why should anyone be condemned for following the requests of the item owners?
If we're to get more information to share with everyone in the future, and not be cutoff, we have a moral responsibility to abide by the owners' wishes, don't we?
Phil
One can allege all they want. I have nothing to gain from the gun, nor have I yet gained anything from the wallet set—other than notoriety. Richard may have something to gain from the gun, but that's not why the photos were pulled. We're simply abiding by the wishes of the people who provided us with the source material.
When haven't we shared with the community when we could?
Aren't we happy that this stuff came out in the first place?
Why are we so upset?
Why should anyone be condemned for following the requests of the item owners?
If we're to get more information to share with everyone in the future, and not be cutoff, we have a moral responsibility to abide by the owners' wishes, don't we?
Phil
SFPROPS
Sr Member
<div class='quotetop'>(philippes @ Sep 7 2006, 11:19 PM) [snapback]1315359[/snapback]</div>
How on Earth could we know?
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I don't know.
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I don't know (maybe these are rhetorical questions.
)
<div class='quotetop'></div>
Karl took pictures of a prop that was being openly displayed and was given permission to do so. If there have been any requests made AFTER THE FACT, it's because of back-room dealing and the need for greedy control of information by people OTHER than the guy who is the "owner". I'm not sure there's a need to respect such less than noble desires. If the owner himself was so concerned, he would have never allowed public display of his collection.
I don't think anyone's condemned anyone for following requests though. Lots of people have impugned those who have reason to pressure third parties into visual/audio silence...people here who it appears are going to "stakeholders" and reporting stuff that they know might not make them happy, therefore stirring the pot. Also, I think people are trying to get the facts straight because there are several people on this board who do have a stake in not having this information out in the mainstream, and they want to make sure that everything is on the 'up and up'.
<div class='quotetop'></div>
The owner had no problem with letting everyone see his stuff. It wasn't until people saw it HERE and OTHERS decided to stir the pot with other collectors that there all of a sudden was a set of "owner's wishes" spurred no doubt by pressure from third parties who wish to deny people information. I don't think Karl or anyone else has a responsibility to people wish to act against the interests of educating fellow collectors in response to a sudden fit of greed. It would be different if Karl was asked prior to photographing not to share his photos or if someone broke into the owner's house and took the pictures. That's not the case.
How on Earth could we know?
<div class='quotetop'></div>
I don't know.
<div class='quotetop'></div>
I don't know (maybe these are rhetorical questions.
)<div class='quotetop'></div>
Karl took pictures of a prop that was being openly displayed and was given permission to do so. If there have been any requests made AFTER THE FACT, it's because of back-room dealing and the need for greedy control of information by people OTHER than the guy who is the "owner". I'm not sure there's a need to respect such less than noble desires. If the owner himself was so concerned, he would have never allowed public display of his collection.
I don't think anyone's condemned anyone for following requests though. Lots of people have impugned those who have reason to pressure third parties into visual/audio silence...people here who it appears are going to "stakeholders" and reporting stuff that they know might not make them happy, therefore stirring the pot. Also, I think people are trying to get the facts straight because there are several people on this board who do have a stake in not having this information out in the mainstream, and they want to make sure that everything is on the 'up and up'.
<div class='quotetop'></div>
The owner had no problem with letting everyone see his stuff. It wasn't until people saw it HERE and OTHERS decided to stir the pot with other collectors that there all of a sudden was a set of "owner's wishes" spurred no doubt by pressure from third parties who wish to deny people information. I don't think Karl or anyone else has a responsibility to people wish to act against the interests of educating fellow collectors in response to a sudden fit of greed. It would be different if Karl was asked prior to photographing not to share his photos or if someone broke into the owner's house and took the pictures. That's not the case.
SFPROPS
Sr Member
<div class='quotetop'>(philippes @ Sep 7 2006, 11:40 PM) [snapback]1315377[/snapback]</div>
Phil
[/b][/quote]
After pointing out that a lot of these people's motivation is greed and a need to silence information in order to maintain the mystique they believe they paid for and have a God given right to, you're worried about their respect?
Seriously?
I'll lose their respect.
Phil
[/b][/quote]
After pointing out that a lot of these people's motivation is greed and a need to silence information in order to maintain the mystique they believe they paid for and have a God given right to, you're worried about their respect?
Seriously?
amish
Sr Member
<div class='quotetop'>(philippes @ Sep 7 2006, 11:40 PM) [snapback]1315377[/snapback]</div>
Phil
[/b][/quote]
To be honest, that is a fine answer, however, what about the respect of the people here? I fear you may have already lost the respect of many here and quite possibly gained respect from others here as well. It is hard to define what others think. Otherwise, I ask you, do these people really have anything to lose from having pictures or even information shared? Will anyone die?
It is just so sad that people actually know the answers too many questions that us fans have and yet they choose to remain silent. If these people are actually fans of this movie, I think they would at least have respect enough for other fans and be willing to share.
It's just so damn heartbreaking that this type of stuff has to happen.
Tom
I'll lose their respect.
Phil
[/b][/quote]
To be honest, that is a fine answer, however, what about the respect of the people here? I fear you may have already lost the respect of many here and quite possibly gained respect from others here as well. It is hard to define what others think. Otherwise, I ask you, do these people really have anything to lose from having pictures or even information shared? Will anyone die?
It is just so sad that people actually know the answers too many questions that us fans have and yet they choose to remain silent. If these people are actually fans of this movie, I think they would at least have respect enough for other fans and be willing to share.
It's just so damn heartbreaking that this type of stuff has to happen.
Tom
<div class='quotetop'>(philippes @ Sep 7 2006, 11:19 PM) [snapback]1315359[/snapback]</div>
I call CowPoop.
You wonder why you get raked over the coals all the time when you post Phil? It's the "I'm better then youououououo..." perception of your posts. Oooooooo......you are in with some bigtime private collectors. Wow. Awesome. You have no personal investment in this whole situation? Come on man. Do we look like fools? Let's see.....Phil is the RPF hatchetman for the Blade Runner Mafia as it's been called. He's been told by these all powerful owners that they are all pissed so he decides to do his hatchetman work and comes in here saying,
"Respect their wishes. How else can we see such cool stuff in the future if we make them mad?"
What that translates into is:
"I don't want to piss these guys off and lose the chance of looking at some cool stuff. How else can I make prop replicas if I aren't privy to the props? Then I can't say that I've got this awesome information but I can't share it with you so I'll rub your noses in it instead."
If you can't share info, don't bring it up. Plain and simple.
This guy didn't want photos taken he should have kept it in his living room like he has for the last 20 years.
Don't cry over the spilt milk. Clean it up and move on.
I call CowPoop.
You wonder why you get raked over the coals all the time when you post Phil? It's the "I'm better then youououououo..." perception of your posts. Oooooooo......you are in with some bigtime private collectors. Wow. Awesome. You have no personal investment in this whole situation? Come on man. Do we look like fools? Let's see.....Phil is the RPF hatchetman for the Blade Runner Mafia as it's been called. He's been told by these all powerful owners that they are all pissed so he decides to do his hatchetman work and comes in here saying,
"Respect their wishes. How else can we see such cool stuff in the future if we make them mad?"
What that translates into is:
"I don't want to piss these guys off and lose the chance of looking at some cool stuff. How else can I make prop replicas if I aren't privy to the props? Then I can't say that I've got this awesome information but I can't share it with you so I'll rub your noses in it instead."
If you can't share info, don't bring it up. Plain and simple.
This guy didn't want photos taken he should have kept it in his living room like he has for the last 20 years.
Don't cry over the spilt milk. Clean it up and move on.
franz bolo
Sr Member
<div class='quotetop'>(philippes @ Sep 7 2006, 10:19 PM) [snapback]1315359[/snapback]</div>
I think this is the issue.. The million dollar question is "Does this request really come from the owner?"
If it does, was he told things that might mold his opinion like "hey with all these pics, your real model will be worthless"
or
"My blaster will be so accurate that I can cut you in for a piece. First I have to get those other photos taken down."
or
"I promise to not share any of my details or photos if you let me examine the gun in private for a few hours. I can even get the guy on the RPF to remove his."
et. etc. I can go on with this for a few hours.
Phil, I PM'd you with a ton of questions about your ID and you answered all of them without hesitation. I appreciate that but things just don't add up.
The fact that your ID doesn't match the one photographed brings into question your word and your word is what's being scrutinized in all these posts. Think about it, the screen capture from the DVD clearly shows that Deckard's ID looks just like the one Karl posted. Did you get duped? Are you doing the duping? By hiding your source material with a clever "because I'm a man of honor, I never violate my word" you make a question that can't be answered. If your ID wasn't the hero prop and it doesn't match the one on the DVD then where did it come from???
What are we, the community, to believe? I guess I'm a conspiracist at heart and my mind makes 3 billion scenerios to try to answer the few simple questions that my mind brings up.
For instance, Rich didn't post his pics because??? I personally think he doesn't want to share them. I asked him directly in an early post if he will post his pics and I never got a response. This was well before Karl took his photos off. Your response could be "well Karls were better than mine or they are all the same stuff". I highly doubt that especially since you drove all night to see a holy relic that you have a huge stake in.
It's very very convenient for him that those pics can never be shown. Whatever the answer as to why he didn't post them, I'm sure it's a convenient non proveable one.
Anyway, I love the TV show Columbo. He always says that things have to make sense. When he finds something that doesn't, he researches until it does. Columbo would be scratching his head at this one but somehow I think he'd be spending the whole show talking to you and Richard.
FB
I think this is the issue.. The million dollar question is "Does this request really come from the owner?"
If it does, was he told things that might mold his opinion like "hey with all these pics, your real model will be worthless"
or
"My blaster will be so accurate that I can cut you in for a piece. First I have to get those other photos taken down."
or
"I promise to not share any of my details or photos if you let me examine the gun in private for a few hours. I can even get the guy on the RPF to remove his."
et. etc. I can go on with this for a few hours.
Phil, I PM'd you with a ton of questions about your ID and you answered all of them without hesitation. I appreciate that but things just don't add up.
The fact that your ID doesn't match the one photographed brings into question your word and your word is what's being scrutinized in all these posts. Think about it, the screen capture from the DVD clearly shows that Deckard's ID looks just like the one Karl posted. Did you get duped? Are you doing the duping? By hiding your source material with a clever "because I'm a man of honor, I never violate my word" you make a question that can't be answered. If your ID wasn't the hero prop and it doesn't match the one on the DVD then where did it come from???
What are we, the community, to believe? I guess I'm a conspiracist at heart and my mind makes 3 billion scenerios to try to answer the few simple questions that my mind brings up.
For instance, Rich didn't post his pics because??? I personally think he doesn't want to share them. I asked him directly in an early post if he will post his pics and I never got a response. This was well before Karl took his photos off. Your response could be "well Karls were better than mine or they are all the same stuff". I highly doubt that especially since you drove all night to see a holy relic that you have a huge stake in.
It's very very convenient for him that those pics can never be shown. Whatever the answer as to why he didn't post them, I'm sure it's a convenient non proveable one.
Anyway, I love the TV show Columbo. He always says that things have to make sense. When he finds something that doesn't, he researches until it does. Columbo would be scratching his head at this one but somehow I think he'd be spending the whole show talking to you and Richard.
FB
<div class='quotetop'>(amish @ Sep 8 2006, 12:01 AM) [snapback]1315391[/snapback]</div>
Sometimes the honorable decision isn't the most popular one.
I had nothing to do with the removal of these photos, however. Richard already explained why that happened.
Phil
Tom,
Sometimes the honorable decision isn't the most popular one.
I had nothing to do with the removal of these photos, however. Richard already explained why that happened.
Phil
No matter how the story ends, I think that in the end, like good little prop fan boys and girls, we'll all pony up the dough and buy whatever is offered to us regardless of how much we may have been duped or lied to.
After all, this isn't the Moral Philosophy Forum, it's the RPF. And I'm all about the toys.
After all, this isn't the Moral Philosophy Forum, it's the RPF. And I'm all about the toys.
SFPROPS
Sr Member
<div class='quotetop'>(philippes @ Sep 8 2006, 12:03 AM) [snapback]1315395[/snapback]</div>
Yes. I value their respect.
Phil
[/b][/quote]
You pointed out that at least one person believed that the "mystique" that he believed he paid for as part of his collectible was lost, therefore he was getting rid of it and you yourself described the dynamic that these people dwell in that causes them to react in the manner they have as "inherent elitism" and "petty materialism".
This then is the standard to which you wish to garner respect?
That's your interpretation of their intentions. Not mine.
Yes. I value their respect.
Phil
[/b][/quote]
You pointed out that at least one person believed that the "mystique" that he believed he paid for as part of his collectible was lost, therefore he was getting rid of it and you yourself described the dynamic that these people dwell in that causes them to react in the manner they have as "inherent elitism" and "petty materialism".
This then is the standard to which you wish to garner respect?
Force Commander
Sr Member
I'm surprised by how disturbed everyone is. People have removed photos many times here, for many reasons. I expected this to happen this time, that is why I grabbed the pics while I could. It just comes with the territory, for whatever reason.
Great pics BTW, thanks for sharing when you did.
Great pics BTW, thanks for sharing when you did.
<div class='quotetop'>(franz bolo @ Sep 8 2006, 12:10 AM) [snapback]1315403[/snapback]</div>
The wallet set I was provided was the one chosen by the original owner when Ridley Scott allowed him to choose from a series of items presented to him. He picked the nicest ones.
If you knew me, you'd know I don't lie.
<div class='quotetop'>(franz bolo @ Sep 8 2006, 12:10 AM) [snapback]1315403[/snapback]</div>
<div class='quotetop'>(franz bolo @ Sep 8 2006, 12:10 AM) [snapback]1315403[/snapback]</div>
<div class='quotetop'>(SFPROPS @ Sep 8 2006, 12:18 AM) [snapback]1315410[/snapback]</div>
I didn't agree with him, and told him so, but still accepted his feelings. How am I going to change the way he feels? Some people are like that.
But just because I don't agree with his feelings, that doesn't mean I can't respect him. Nor does it imply that I no longer value his respect.
Phil
I think you're mistaken about that. The clip-ons shown at Worldcon are quite different from the nice wallet IDs created for the film. At least, I know that's the case for the Deckard ID.
The wallet set I was provided was the one chosen by the original owner when Ridley Scott allowed him to choose from a series of items presented to him. He picked the nicest ones.
If you knew me, you'd know I don't lie.
<div class='quotetop'>(franz bolo @ Sep 8 2006, 12:10 AM) [snapback]1315403[/snapback]</div>
There are no conspiracies—just friends respecting friends, and people respecting people.
<div class='quotetop'>(franz bolo @ Sep 8 2006, 12:10 AM) [snapback]1315403[/snapback]</div>
I've worked with Richard for 8 years. And during that time, he has never lied to or misled me. He's a fundamentally good person. The characteristics you're ascribing to him indicate you really don't know him. That's too bad, since he's a fine man.
<div class='quotetop'>(SFPROPS @ Sep 8 2006, 12:18 AM) [snapback]1315410[/snapback]</div>
Yes. Those were his exact words.
I didn't agree with him, and told him so, but still accepted his feelings. How am I going to change the way he feels? Some people are like that.
But just because I don't agree with his feelings, that doesn't mean I can't respect him. Nor does it imply that I no longer value his respect.
Phil
SFPROPS
Sr Member
<div class='quotetop'>(philippes @ Sep 8 2006, 12:26 AM) [snapback]1315416[/snapback]</div>
So it's your position that the ID's you sold match what can be seen on-screen in Deckard's hand in the movie? I think that was Franz's argument - not that it didn't somehow come from the production at some point.
<div class='quotetop'>(philippes @ Sep 8 2006, 12:31 AM) [snapback]1315416[/snapback]</div>
It's not the feelings that are suspect, rather the actions that the people take in response to the feelings. it's quite normal to not give respect to those who act in ways that are selfish or self motivated when it causes someone else to be deprived of something that could be easily given.
We all have negative feelings or human nature based desires from time to time which are contrary to that which would make us good human beings deserving respect. What separates those deserving respect and those that don't is whether or not they decide to act on these lesser intentions. The people in question are acting on those feelings you disagree with...not just having them. At that point, it is also human nature to lose respect for those types of actions.
So it's your position that the ID's you sold match what can be seen on-screen in Deckard's hand in the movie? I think that was Franz's argument - not that it didn't somehow come from the production at some point.
<div class='quotetop'>(philippes @ Sep 8 2006, 12:31 AM) [snapback]1315416[/snapback]</div>
It's not the feelings that are suspect, rather the actions that the people take in response to the feelings. it's quite normal to not give respect to those who act in ways that are selfish or self motivated when it causes someone else to be deprived of something that could be easily given.
We all have negative feelings or human nature based desires from time to time which are contrary to that which would make us good human beings deserving respect. What separates those deserving respect and those that don't is whether or not they decide to act on these lesser intentions. The people in question are acting on those feelings you disagree with...not just having them. At that point, it is also human nature to lose respect for those types of actions.
franz bolo
Sr Member
Just for reference, this is a screen grab of the real hero deckard ID card looks like:
The last one is the one I made from the reference photo Karl posted.
FB
The last one is the one I made from the reference photo Karl posted.
FB
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