Unaltered Original Star Wars Trilogy on Blu Ray?

[JD]

x infinity!

But I'll also add I don't get the people who feel they're owed something more than what they already paid for. I mean, I want an de-specialized version of the OT as much as the next guy, but I dont see that I'm entitled to it just because I say so. Then again, that attitude seems to be pretty prevalent these days. I dunno. darnkids

Exactly this. We could get into discussion about feeling entitled to something, but I think that's best for elsewhere.

I think most folks on the RPF would love a pristine copy of Star Wars in it's "original" form - although, even what exactly that is is debatable, too. I also feel that just because the owner of Star Wars has decided to not make this available doesn't give anyone the right to do so (and of course, the law seems to back this up). It's not about being a "moral authority" or take someone with "infinite wisdom" to figure this out... that's just someone that can't handle discussion.

I got schooled pretty heavily during the whole Napster issue about many issues like this and I was pretty close to that whole debate due to a job at the time. So, creative rights are a big thing to me and something I am familiar with (although I wouldn't call myself an expert on it)... I just feel that an owner should retain creative control over their property within the constraints of the law.

(Should there be archival copies kept? I could agree with this... but, again it comes down to the artist and their rights).

When/if an original (cleaned up) copy of the OT becomes available - I'd be there waiting in line at midnight for it.

- - - Updated - - -

Probably a good thing. Hard to have a conversation with someone who doesn't see both sides of the issue, only their side.

Look!! Another edit.

I've been welcoming other sides to the issue - but Brett hasn't opted to present any discussion about the issue.

When you boil it down to the basics, taking someone else's property is a lot like rape (although not nearly as severe). Because a girl dresses a certain doesn't mean she's "asking for it" - and because Lucasfilm hasn't released a version of Star Wars doesn't mean that they're asking for someone to do it for them.

 

[Bigdaddy]

Comparing re-editing a film to rape, is just ridiculous.
Some people think fan edits are "wrong", some people don't. Some people think replicating an original design of a prop that is not available is "wrong", some people don't. Kind of sums up this thread.

 

[JD]

Comparing re-editing a film to rape, is just ridiculous.

Not at all if you follow the definition of rape.

"to plunder (a place); despoil.
to seize, take, or carry off by force."


(Respectfully, I do acknowledge that I used an extreme example to make a point - however, I feel the actual definition of the word justifies it's usage. Because for all intents and purposes you seizing or taking someone else's property for your own use against their wishes).

Some people think fan edits are "wrong", some people don't. Some people think replicating an original design of a prop that is not available is "wrong", some people don't. Kind of sums up this thread.

Agreed. I really don't have a problem with either - until distribution (of any kind) or sale is involved; it's also noteworthy that it appears to be illegal to edit or alter someone else's work. (I also acknowledge my hypocrisy in the matter. )

I guess the biggest gray area is about you purchasing a the video and altering it yourself - making your own copy and edit of it (not downloading someone else's edit because you feel entitled to it). My understanding is that this violates the artist's right and the agreement made when you purchased the product.... therefore illegal and "wrong."

Again, we try to justify violating the rights of the owner by saying that you're owed something due to your support or that it needs to be preserved. But, I still say the rights of the owner prevails over the wishes of others.

 

[Zombie_61]

I remember a time not so long ago when a lot of "experts" said the Batman television series from the 1960s would never be legitimately released on home media because of all of the legal issues and expenses involved in doing so. And a lot of other "experts" said it was possible if they could sort out the legal issues, but that the expenses of doing so and restoring the original footage would be so high that the resulting MSRP would be so outrageous that no one would pay it. In spite of all of the naysayers, the series was released on DVD and Blu-Ray last November, and I got the DVD box set (all three seasons plus bonus features) shipped to my home for less than $50.

The bottom line is, if Disney, Lucasfilm, Fox, and whoever else owns a piece of the Star Wars franchise, want the original, unaltered, theatrical versions of the Original Trilogy movies released on DVD and/or Blu-Ray, they'll find a way to make it happen regardless of the obstacles.

 

[JoeG]

I don't think anyone here is saying it wont ever happen, but there are obstacles and its not high on Disney's list of things to do with the franchise. You're right, though. If the powers that be decide they want it to happen, it will happen. It just doesn't seem like its going to happen in the next 5 years or so.

 

[Solo4114]

I remember a time not so long ago when a lot of "experts" said the Batman television series from the 1960s would never be legitimately released on home media because of all of the legal issues and expenses involved in doing so. And a lot of other "experts" said it was possible if they could sort out the legal issues, but that the expenses of doing so and restoring the original footage would be so high that the resulting MSRP would be so outrageous that no one would pay it. In spite of all of the naysayers, the series was released on DVD and Blu-Ray last November, and I got the DVD box set (all three seasons plus bonus features) shipped to my home for less than $50.

The bottom line is, if Disney, Lucasfilm, Fox, and whoever else owns a piece of the Star Wars franchise, want the original, unaltered, theatrical versions of the Original Trilogy movies released on DVD and/or Blu-Ray, they'll find a way to make it happen regardless of the obstacles.

Oh, I don't disagree with that. Certainly Disney has the resources to do this whenever they please, and probably do it quite well. But we do know (or at least strongly suspect) the details about the licensing deal, with ESB and ROTJ reverting to Disney in 2020. Given that information, it seems a lot less likely that they'd make a move before then, when they can just wait five years (while selling plenty of other Star Wars stuff) and get them back for free. From Disney's perspective, that's probably a pretty short time to wait, ya know?

That said, it could happen. I just don't think it's as likely. I'd be delighted to be proven wrong, though.

 

[matty matt]

I think actual rape victims would disagree with that idiotic rape comment, text book definition or not.

 

[JD]

I think actual rape victims would disagree with that idiotic rape comment, text book definition or not.

I'd agree with you on accounts of sexual rape.

But, English is an actual language and words have actual meanings - like it or not.

 

[cayman shen]

x infinity!

But I'll also add I don't get the people who feel they're owed something more than what they already paid for. I mean, I want an de-specialized version of the OT as much as the next guy, but I dont see that I'm entitled to it just because I say so. Then again, that attitude seems to be pretty prevalent these days. I dunno. darnkids

No, literally, we JUST had this exact thread. Same players saying the same things (myself included). http://www.therpf.com/f47/could-dis...d-star-wars-we-want-213335/?highlight=trilogy

 

[Bigdaddy]

When you boil it down to the basics, taking someone else's property is a lot like rape (although not nearly as severe). Because a girl dresses a certain doesn't mean she's "asking for it" - and because Lucasfilm hasn't released a version of Star Wars doesn't mean that they're asking for someone to do it for them.

Not at all if you follow the definition of rape.

"to plunder (a place); despoil.
to seize, take, or carry off by force."


(Respectfully, I do acknowledge that I used an extreme example to make a point - however, I feel the actual definition of the word justifies it's usage. Because for all intents and purposes you seizing or taking someone else's property for your own use against their wishes).

Your final sentence refers to theft, not rape (nobody has used force against Lucasfilms)
Respectfully:
While the definition you provided is accurate, its obvious that your original post was using the word in the context of sexual assault.
Rape is more than an "extreme" example, its a poor one used solely for shock value. Comparing those that engage in re-editing films to rapists is in poor taste, "extremely" poor taste.

Appeal to emotion

 

[matty matt]

I'd agree with you on accounts of sexual rape.

But, English is an actual language and words have actual meanings - like it or not.

Bigdaddy pretty much summed it up. Downloading bootlegs is nothing like rape. If you had compared it to shoplifting it would be a different story. It was a bad comparison. Let's move on.

 

[Brent M]

Until Disney actually announces that they're releasing the unaltered OT on Blu-Ray maybe this thread should be shut down as it has clearly gone way off topic.

Btw, I would appreciate if a mod could explain to me why my last post got removed, but the post that compared editing a film to rape was left alone. I'd really like to hear the reasoning behind that choice.

 

[Jeyl]

you're not entitled to something more for nothing.

I don't think anyone is really asking for a free copy of the unaltered trilogy. Heck, when Lucasfilm released the GOUT, they asked pretty much every fan to buy something they most likely already owned just to get the unaltered versions that weren't handled in any respectable way.

 

[Bryancd]

I don't think anyone is really asking for a free copy of the unaltered trilogy. Heck, when Lucasfilm released the GOUT, they asked pretty much every fan to buy something they most likely already owned just to get the unaltered versions that weren't handled in any respectable way.

Lucasfilm didn't ask fans to do anything. They produced a product and gave fans the choice of purchasing it or not. I am just amazed at all the equivocating in the posts above to justify intellectual property theft.

 

[Brent M]

I'm equally amazed how some people continue to view fan edits and restorations of something you can't actually purchase as theft. Obviously there will never be agreement on this issue.

 

[Bryancd]

I'm equally amazed how some people continue to view fan edits and restorations of something you can't actually purchase as theft. Obviously there will never be agreement on this issue.

i don't consider a fan editing a copy of a film they legally purchased for their own enjoyment theft. I consider said edits distribution as theft.

 

[HAL9000]

TCF / Newscorp and TWDC both have shareholders. Shareholders expect results or they will remove whoever is in power.
TCF know / are well aware of the public / fan desire for SW theatrical versions.
The fact Disney are involved these days in no way would prohibit TCF from capitlising on
prime content. The restoration of the Theatrical Cuts has been going on for quite some time.
From what I understand it started at ILM before their move to big rock / presidio and has continued on
with a couple of third party companies.

Release windows are the issue here. I believe Disney (in league with TCF) are planning a digital release of the SE OT.

That release will get the first wave of publicity. They wont want to **** on their chips and say the originals are coming next
as it will affect sales of that effort.

be a little patient.

* also - I'm aware that a considerable amount of B roll footage from ANH / ESB that was never relased has been restored too.

 

[Jeyl]

They produced a product and gave fans the choice of purchasing it or not.

If only it was that simple. There were more issues with the GOUT release of the original unaltered trilogy than simply "releasing a product and having a choice to buy it". When the original trilogy was first released on DVD (Special Editions), it was done during a time that Lucasfilm was still vocal regarding how the original unaltered versions would not be released, going so far as to say that the originals no longer exist. So the only way to see the original trilogy in any way was through this DVD release. Fast forward a few years later, we're all of a sudden getting the unaltered version of the films in a format that was well below the standard at the time (4x3 Widescreen, 2.0 Audio). To add insult to injury, they threw in the original Special Edition DVDs that was released before onto the set. So the movie goers who bought the original set with the knowledge that they weren't going to get a copy of the unaltered trilogy now had to decide whether they wanted to buy the same freaking discs again just to watch the original versions which were amptly labeled as "Bonus Features". See how that can be looked at as a slap in the face to those who waited?

For a studio that proudly labeled their movies with a THX banner proclaiming "Digitally Remastered For Superior Sound and Picture Quality", the GOUT release was on the exact opposite of that standard. You know, I know and the fans know that they could have done so much more, but chose not to.

"Why would you cut a negative?"

 

[Jeyl]

i don't consider a fan editing a copy of a film they legally purchased for their own enjoyment theft. I consider said edits distribution as theft.

What if we paid for the same copy of the movie they used to edit the film with? Like I bought and own the original Star Wars movies on DVD and Adywan's cut uses the DVDs as his source. So technically, I've done my part to support the official release. Heck, I even bought the complete BluRay set in preparation for Adywan's The Empire Strikes Back edit since he used the BluRays as a source. What's wrong with enjoying a fan edit if you legitimately bought the source that was used for the fan edit?

 

[Bryancd]

What if we paid for the same copy of the movie they used to edit the film with? Like I bought and own the original Star Wars movies on DVD and Adywan's cut uses the DVDs as his source. So technically, I've done my part to support the official release. Heck, I even bought the complete BluRay set in preparation for Adywan's The Empire Strikes Back edit since he used the BluRays as a source. What's wrong with enjoying a fan edit if you legitimately bought the source that was used for the fan edit?

Because Adywan or whomever else have violated a copyright but I personally think if they don't distribute it, that's no harm. But it is a violation of copyright law regardless if he or you agree or not. That's a starement of fact. If you want to create your own edit of your purchased content, that's fine as well. If you take his edit, he has distributed stolen property that you are now in possesion of. It really is that simple.

Your post above that is complete nonsense. Consumers are the ultimate arbiters of a products success. If LucasFilm chooses to package a product in a specific way, that's their prerogative. You can vote with your wallet.