Unaltered Original Star Wars Trilogy on Blu Ray?

Discussion in 'Entertainment and Movie Talk' started by Edraven99, Mar 13, 2015.

  1. Edraven99

    Edraven99 Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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  2. Solo4114

    Solo4114 Master Member

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    I mean, does Disney "have plans" to distribute this? Yeah, probably. Is it going to happen any time soon? Eh, I kinda doubt it. They might surprise us, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that "archival copy" of the OOT.
     
  3. jcoffman99

    jcoffman99 Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    This was from back in August. I saw Sideshow had it on their Facebook page today. Must have been a slow news day.
     
  4. Riceball

    Riceball Sr Member

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    It would be cool if this, but I also hope that it's not too unaltered. By that I mean I hope that it has been re-mastered with cleaned up effects and the like but no edits and added/changed scenes.
     
  5. teecrooz

    teecrooz Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Would be nice to have along with all of the other editions I have of it.
     
  6. dascoyne

    dascoyne Master Member

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    one word: Harmy
     
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  7. Grey

    Grey Sr Member

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    Please, man in the sky. I don't ask for much, but I need you to make this happen.
     
  8. ProfKSergeev

    ProfKSergeev Well-Known Member

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    Six-month-old article.
     
  9. cayman shen

    cayman shen Master Member

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    I've said it before, I'll say it again: I will literally, no exaggeration, burst into tears if the OOT on BR is ever confirmed. Doesn't sound like this is what I've been waiting for though :/
     
  10. Edraven99

    Edraven99 Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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  11. Cephus

    Cephus Sr Member

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    I've already got the original theatrical versions including Star Wars pre-Chapter 4 crawl. Doesn't really matter if they put it out or not, I'd be getting nothing new except a potentially better quality copy.
     
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  12. Apollo

    Apollo Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Been talked about and hoped for since George handed the reigns over to the Mouse.

    Disney will do it just a matter of when
     
  13. Brent M

    Brent M Sr Member

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    Absolutely. Hope he finishes ROTJ soon and that way I will have the complete trilogy just in case Disney doesn't follow through with this release.
     
  14. NeoRutty

    NeoRutty Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    After seeing how picky Harmy team got (watch the vids on Youtube) there is no way they will put that kind of energy into the releases. Purists will still be angry.

    Me, happier than a **** in **** doing ****************************************************

    (I just add asterisks on my own now)
     
  15. Sluis Van Shipyards

    Sluis Van Shipyards Master Member

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    I would like it if it's been cleaned up. I can't believe that they would go through the trouble of restoring the film and not saving a copy before adding the SE stuff.
     
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  16. Fumanchewie

    Fumanchewie New Member

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    I think Fox owns the distribution rights through the year 2020
     
  17. jeffreygullett

    jeffreygullett Well-Known Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Fox owns ESB and ROTJ until 2020. But they own ANH forever. So unless Disney is doing a deal with Fox, this is a hoax. This is the third time I've seen this same story pop up.
     
  18. cayman shen

    cayman shen Master Member

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    I can't see why Fox WOULDN'T collaborate if there's money to be made. I was under the impression that it was GL's stubborn insistence that the good versions of his movies never see a quality release that was the hold up.
     
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  19. JD

    JD Master Member

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    This is a repost. Discussion should go in the proper thread.

    The article cited in the first post is seven months old - still nothing. Even better, article mentioned in the original (and much more extensive) thread had links to announcments that 4K versions of the original trilogy are confirmed for the first half of 2015 (they've since amended it to the last half of 2015 -- so there is still hope until it's changed again to 2016, lol).
     
  20. Cephus

    Cephus Sr Member

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    Agreed, it makes no sense for Fox to sit on things that they aren't making any money on when they have an opportunity to put it out there and make a profit. Then again, there are a lot of things out there that make no sense.
     
  21. CB2001

    CB2001 Master Member

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    Me, I think that 20th Century Fox will not sell the distribution rights to Disney when it comes to the original trilogy. After all, the original trilogy was three of their most biggest hits in their history and drew in millions of dollars for decades. Hell, Fox won't even give X-Men and The Fantastic Four back to Marvel, which is owned by Disney as well, and those films probably haven't even touched the amount of money that Fox made off the original trilogy, even after Marvel has probably made dozens of offers to get those rights back, and from what I've read, Marvel has pretty much ended The Fantastic Four comics, possibly in hopes that it would sabotage the upcoming film so that they can get the rights back. Unless Disney can somehow make one hell of an offer that Fox can't refuse, the odds of seeing the unaltered original trilogy released on Blu-Ray is something that seems more as a pipe dream at this moment. But then again, stranger things have happened and it could happen.
     
  22. astroboy

    astroboy Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    I firmly believe that people will be disappointed by this.

    As nice as it will be to see Han shooting first, there's also a lot of other shoddy craftsmanship going on. I certainly don't miss seeing clear snowspeeders or those light brown blocks around all the tie fighters
     
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  23. Clutch

    Clutch Master Member

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    To me, unaltered means without the addition of things like scenes or edits or color correction. I don't mind them cleaning things that you only noticed once it was on TV.
     
  24. dascoyne

    dascoyne Master Member

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    Harmy. You seek Harmy.
     
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  25. swgeek

    swgeek Sr Member

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    Shoddy craftsmanship? Really?! Star Wars was pretty ground breaking at the time. To judge it by today's quality of effects is pretty unfair. I think the effects in the OT hold up really well.
     
  26. Bryancd

    Bryancd Master Member

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    Please, someone make this insanity stop...
     
  27. CB2001

    CB2001 Master Member

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    The only person who could have made this insanity stop is George Lucas, by saying, "Okay, no more Star Wars films, books, video games, comic books or TV shows." But, we know he didn't and sold it Disney, who have chosen to continue the insanity.
     
  28. Bryancd

    Bryancd Master Member

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    that is so not what is going on. I feel like I need to educate half this forum about branding and business sometimes...
     
  29. Cephus

    Cephus Sr Member

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    It doesn't bother me at all, I'm able to enjoy movies despite their flaws because I understand everything wasn't made yesterday. That means I can watch old black and white movies from the 30s and 40s and enjoy them just fine. Everything doesn't have to be perfect, in fact, most of the time it just makes things worse to try. The Star Wars SE crap was an example of making it look better and making the movies worse at the same time.
     
  30. CB2001

    CB2001 Master Member

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    This has nothing to do with branding and business. You said someone should "stop this insanity." George Lucas was the only one who ever could. That's just the clear point of my statement.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2015
  31. cayman shen

    cayman shen Master Member

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    I do want to see those things. Because that's how I remember Star Wars. I don't want new and improved. That "shoddy craftsmanship" is a part of history. Why would I want that erased? I want to see the Star Wars I fell in love with, not some tarted up old hoor who's lathered on some CG makeup to desperately try to hold onto her youth.

    I'm sure there are people out there who would love a colorized Casablanca, or who think that Seven Samurai would be great if Mifune's lines were dubbed in by Seth Rogen, but I'm not one of them. And I don't want the ******* Star Wars Special Editions either.
     
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  32. matty matt

    matty matt Sr Member

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    Shoddy craftsmanship on Star Wars? What they did with the budget and technical limitations was nothing short of amazing and pretty much the entire world recognized that at the time. it makes no sense to compare it to films that came later and improved on the technology.
     
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  33. Solo4114

    Solo4114 Master Member

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    You're conflating distribution rights with total creative control. Fox owns X-Men and Fantastic Four for purposes of making movies, from top to bottom. They can write the scripts, pick the actors, shoot the films, and put them in theaters and then burn 'em to media and sell the streaming rights or host them themselves, all in-house.

    That's not the case with Star Wars, though. As I understand it, Fox owns the distribution rights to the OT. Two of those films revert to Disney in 2020 -- five years from now. The third film remains in Fox's control for distribution purposes in perpetuity. Now, again, as I understand it, what that means is that Fox gets to keep printing copies of the OT. And that's about it. They don't get to modify the films by adding or cutting scenes. They have no creative control over them. What they get to do is print the movies, and I'm not even sure that they get to decide when that happens. I think that distribution rights means that, if LucasFilm/Disney wants to reissue discs, or do an OOT version or whathaveyou, then they bring the film to Fox, and have to use Fox's distribution chain to get the final product to the consumer. That means Fox prints the discs or decides who does. Fox picks the company that does the box artwork. Fox controls how it gets to the theaters, if it gets to the theaters again. But I don't think that it means that Fox gets to say "Hey, let's do an 8K version of the OOT with all the SE stuff taken out, but let's keep some of the color correction, and reissue the films with the original 'Star Wars' title crawl. Also, let's put this in theaters in 3D." Basically, Fox gets a cut of any distribution money, and Disney has to use Fox's distribution chain to get the film out, and that's it.

    The reason why nothing is likely to happen until 2020 is because all Disney currently has to do is sit and wait for the rights to two of the films to revert. That gives them more leverage to work a deal with Fox to either license or purchase back the distribution rights to one film as opposed to three. Now, Fox will still hold something of considerable value, but that value is significantly diminished when it's just the one film. So Disney has no incentive to spend additional money just so it can jump the gun by 5 years (or less, as time ticks by) to put the whole trilogy out. They'll just wait, and then work a deal with Fox to get the film.

    Fox, at the same time, is not gonna refuse a deal because the value of JUST releasing Star Wars isn't enough to make it worthwhile. Plus, they'll know Disney will want the rights back, because Disney is working on a theory with the franchise that it will provide a unified approach to ALL things Star Wars. Books, comics, video games, toys, TV shows, films, web series, Youtube channels, websites, everything. Disney wants it all controlled in-house by people it selects because it knows they can deliver quality. That's already how they're approaching the franchise, and it's likely to continue. And that means that, yes, this will eventually happen (probably), or at least Disney will recapture the rights.

    If I had to guess, I'd bet that they'll buy them back outright, rather than license them on some temporary basis. It'll cost them in the short run, but it's worth it for them in the long run. Fox will want the money, so it will be inclined to deal, rather than ask for a number so astronomically high that Disney refuses. Fox, after all, is in the business of making money. Denying Disney the ability to release the film does not make them money. It costs Disney money. That's not the same thing. In the end, the desire to make money will win out over the desire to harm the competition because, realistically, Fox gains nothing by harming the competition, and makes money by making the deal.

    I've given it my best shot, but please do feel free to correct me where I've gone astray, misunderstood, or misread the situation.
     
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  34. Bryancd

    Bryancd Master Member

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    No, Dan, that exactly right and a viable outcome. Nothing will happen until 2020. Once Disney and LucasFilm have those rights back they will be in a much better position to negotiate with Fox and arrangement for releasing new physical or digital media releases of the films. Now, will LucasFilm ever be inclined to release the original prints of the films is an entirely diffrerent consideration.
     
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  35. Solo4114

    Solo4114 Master Member

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    Fair point, that. The OOT enthusiasts are indeed a niche group. A vocal one, but a niche group nonetheless, at least as compared to the general populace.

    As to whether that happens, I think there are two questions that have to be answered:

    1. Will a resolution higher than 1080p become standard and widespread enough to justify any remastering or re-release? If this doesn't happen, Disney has zero incentive to spend money to redo the films when they're already acceptable to the bulk of the population as-is. So, this is really a threshold issue, as I see it.

    2. If a new hi-def standard takes over, what will Disney's approach be to remastering the films for that new standard? If they go back to the original film stock or negatives, then I think there's a chance they'll take that, remaster it, and then add in special edition stuff after the fact. That'd mean they could -- if they cared to -- release the unmodified version (without SE stuff), and release the SE otherwise. I suppose there's also the possibility that they'd skip trying to redo the SE stuff at all, too, and assume it's too expensive to do effectively new material for the higher resolution, at which point the SE simply becomes an odd experiment George took in the late 90s and early 2000s. Or they'll want to honor Lucas' artistic wishes, and will continue to refuse to release an OOT altogether.

    I don't know what'll happen under #2, but I strongly suspect that without #1, nothing will happen.


    When I think of it, there's also a branding issue that fits into this with the SEs. For example, Boba Fett's voice, the Emperor's look in ESB, etc., all of that kinda runs counter to the current overall canon. Is it fatal to releasing an archival OOT? I'm not sure, but it certainly doesn't cut in its favor.
     
  36. CB2001

    CB2001 Master Member

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    No, I was using the creative control rights of two Marvel properties as an example of Fox's unwillingness to give up the distribution rights to the original trilogy. Like I said, unless Disney is willing to pay top dollar (possibly in the high millions, if not in the billions range), the odds of them getting those distribution rights are extremely slim to none at this point. And Fox will attempt to do everything they can to keep those rights because of the fact the OT was one of their biggest influxes of cash over the years whenever the time runs out on them (which would be a funny similarity to Disney, but that's on a different topic)..
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2015
  37. Solo4114

    Solo4114 Master Member

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    Right, but what I'm saying is that you're making an apples/oranges comparison here. Distribution rights are far less valuable than the kind of creative control rights that Fox has over the X-Men and FF franchises. They can make WAY more money off of those products than they can off of the rights to distribute the original three (or one, after 2020) Star Wars films.

    At this point, the OT isn't a big influx of cash for Fox. They probably see a steady trickle from home media sales and...that's it. That's all they get. Disney controls when and whether a subsequent release is issued. Fox doesn't decide that. So, Fox actually doesn't gain that much from the distro rights. Their main value, at this point, is actually their value to Disney for their overall plans re: the brand. This is especially true after 2020.

    Compare that, for example, to Fox's rights to do whatever they want with the X-Men film franchise. Fox can make new movies, license the production of all kinds of tie-in products with the movies (action figures, drinking cups at Burger King, clothing, kids' school supplies, whatever), etc. And Fox pockets all of that money. Fox controls when and whether another film entry is made, the entire direction of that film, and everything relating to it. They may also have the rights to television, so if Fox wants to do a new X-Men cartoon or start some live-action TV show featuring mutants a la X-men, then they can. Disney can't even mention "mutants" on Agents of SHIELD because of this; they have to call them "gifted" or whatever. And they can't use any of the X-men characters, either (except for Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch). The degree of control and the amount of money that Fox can make off of the X-Men franchise alone is staggeringly greater than the distribution rights to a film that's pushin' 40.

    Generally speaking, large, publicly traded companies like Fox are not vindictive, nor do they really care about historical considerations like what a particular brand or product accomplished for them in the past. That's why I highly doubt Fox is gonna really care about what Star Wars did for it decades ago, and why Fox isn't going to be "hardheaded" about selling the rights back to Disney. After a certain point, Disney is the only entity that actually would value those rights, except perhaps another party who wanted to sell those rights back to Disney themselves. But if someone believes that to be the case, then Fox will probably believe it too, and will simply...sell directly to Disney. Basically, after 2020, the distro rights to Star Wars have no value except as a commodity to be sold to Disney itself. They're functionally worthless otherwise, and Disney is basically the only "market" for them.
     
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  38. CB2001

    CB2001 Master Member

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    So, you're saying that an example of unwillingness to sell one doesn't count as an unwillingness to sell another? I'm sorry, but that's like saying the store will sell the apples but not the oranges, while I'm saying that they clearly won't give up their rights tosell the apples and the odds of them giving up their rights to sell the oranges seems rather slim at this point, because both brought in money to the store, and the oranges were the long time best selling item in their store.

    But like I said, unless Disney's willing to pay a high price, it doesn't seam likely that Fox will sell, and even when the time runs out on those rights, Fox is going to do everything they can to hold onto those rights, such as trying to find a loophole in the contracts they signed with Lucas back in the 1970s (like I said, Disney did something similar, but like I said, that's for another topic because it was more about them retaining their copyright right when it was about to expire altogether).
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2015
  39. Bryancd

    Bryancd Master Member

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    After 2020, Fox retains only one films distribution rights. Dan is correct, the relative value of that is exceedingly limited. Disney would ideally like to have those rights but they can revenue share with Fox for any future release of ANH ONLY. And it raises the questions if digital distribution is included in that prohibition. I bet Disneys lawyers are taking a hard look at that. Disney is on the verge of creating its own proprietary content that will dwarf all that has come before. They will have 100% control of 5 of the 6 GL produced films. They have bigger fish to fry then pony up an exorbitant amount for ANH distribution, and Fox knows it.
     
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  40. Solo4114

    Solo4114 Master Member

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    No, I'm saying that it's a question of the value of apples and the value of the oranges not being remotely comparable. Let me put it this way. With the X-Men franchise, Fox has an apple farm. It's not going to sell the farm when it can keep growing apples and selling them, and cross-breeding apple types, and selling all kinds of other stuff like apple-scented soap, and apple butter, and apple bread, and apple this and apple that.

    By comparison, the Star Wars deal is more like having a deal with a local orange farm that requires the orange farm to use your trucks and your boxes to sell one half of its orange crop. And after 2020, that drops to 1/6 of its orange crop. And then, you only get to ship and box the oranges if the farm even wants to sell its oranges from its original grove in the first place. Also, the orange farm is poised to buy up something like 400 acres of additional property, and will soon be selling more and more oranges from these new groves. And it's got its own fleet of trucks, its own guys who make boxes, and it's very, VERY interested in making sure that its oranges all have individual stickers on them that show the company's logo.

    Bingo.

    To put this back into the whole orange grove analogy, really, what Fox has is the right, after 2020, to box and ship 1/6 of the original orange crop, again, if the orange grower even decides to sell stuff from the original portion of the orange grove at all.

    What Fox has -- that right to box and ship oranges -- is only valuable to...the original orange grower, and to Fox. For the orange grower, those rights are only valuable if it wants to be able to ship the entire line of oranges that have always been made by the orange grower. For Fox, those rights are only valuable as either (a) an additional source of revenue by working a deal with the orange grower to continue producing and selling oranges from the old grove, or (b) an asset that it can sell back to the orange grower for a decent chunk of change. But the thing is, the orange grower may not even really care, since it's got that huge crop coming from the new 400 acre purchase, and while it might like to still sell the Old Time taste of the oranges from the western grove, if it can't work out a deal to either split the money or buy the shipping-and-boxing rights back...meh, it's got other oranges it can sell.

    So, Fox is probably a lot more likely to want to work a deal with the orange grower to make some kind of money off those oranges (rather than just let 'em rot and nobody makes money), than it is going to be to, say, sell its apple farm, which is still quite popular. See the difference?
     
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  41. Bryancd

    Bryancd Master Member

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    And to circle back to the stop the insanity comment, every time this comes up there for is breathless hyperbole about the $ to be made by releasing the OOT. It's niche. Even ANH has historical value but limited current commercial value. Everyone has seen it and owns copies if it.
     
  42. Bryancd

    Bryancd Master Member

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    95% of the $ ANH is going to make has already been made.
     
  43. jeff001

    jeff001 New Member

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    I saw the original as a 7 year old kid in 1977 - like all things back then - e.g. 1978 Doctor who - the special effects awed me but looking at it now - there is only cringe. When you get that shiny edition of the original movie you wont know what the fuss was all about...
     
  44. OldKen

    OldKen Master Member

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    I really think the OOT needs to be preserved. Period.

    I DO want to own 4k versions of the unaltered OT.

    But I think they should also take the original in full resolution... after being restored... Actually make a new definitive "special edition".

    Meaning color tweak, cleaned up land speeder, tie fighter etc. effects. Sound mastering etc etc. all with the best Disney has. (NO original SE footage)

    You can hate my opinion. But I think it's a possible future for the OT. And I would personally love to see what they could do.
     
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  45. Jeyl

    Jeyl Master Member

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    Don't need to wait for Disney to do that. We've got Adywan working on it right now.
     
  46. JD

    JD Master Member

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    I do think that people should be able to do with their property as they please (within legal reasoning).

    Is it just a matter of time before Disney opts to protect their property and go after folks that think they can do it better? Perhaps.
     
  47. Bryancd

    Bryancd Master Member

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    only if they try and sell it.
     
  48. JD

    JD Master Member

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    Only if they distribute it?
     
  49. Bryancd

    Bryancd Master Member

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    Monetize it directly or indirectly.
     
  50. CB2001

    CB2001 Master Member

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    And to come back to my original response, only George Lucas could have stopped that insanity by saying "no more Star Wars." He created it, he could have ended it. That was the whole point if my initial post. Not an argument about business, not an argument about rights, just a plan and simple fact that he was the one who could have stopped it. Now, as far as I'm concerned, that was the only point I was trying to make, and that was the only response I wanted to make in regards to your response. And as far as I'm concerned, I've said my piece and that's all. No subtext, no "he must mean more than that," just a simple statement with no more to give than that.
     

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