The Mandalorian (TV series)

[squirk]

He did fly rather casually close to the cruiser without being challenged, didn't he?

I noticed that, and thought it odd as well at the time. But you'd think that if there was some double-crossing going on, and they were trying to maintain the charade, the SD would have made a show of "trying" to shoot Boba down?

Also, Gideon has what he wants. Boba has what he wants. Why would Fett and Fennec continue the charade with Djarin at this point? Why not just either kill him or leave?

Finally, the fury on Boba's face when fighting the stormtroopers just seemed too genuine, all the more so since nobody else was around and there was no need for Boba to act enraged for Djarin's benefit.

I love the idea of this being a Whedon-esque sucker-punch double-cross, but I don't feel like the show shoots to be that layered and complex.

 

[BlandoCalrssian]

He did fly rather casually close to the cruiser without being challenged, didn't he?

I didn’t find that too unusual, I’m sure Slave 1 is outfitted with all manner of anti-detection systems. Unless he opened fire they probably could never tell he was there.

 

[Spyhunter2k]

 

[HMSwolfe]

I didn’t find that too unusual, I’m sure Slave 1 is outfitted with all manner of anti-detection systems. Unless he opened fire they probably could never tell he was there.

The Falcon flew closer in ESB, as did the Slave I to the Falcon in the same scene.

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

So here's my view on things: First off, Boba is full of crap. He's a BAD GUY, and we will see it soon.
- He's worked for the Empire before.
- He probably STILL hates the Jedi. Why would he possibly help Grogu?
- Jango's line about being a "simple man making his way in the universe" was a lie to Obi-Wan. It's repeated here.
- They took out the Razor Crest from orbit, but they didn't blow up Slave I.
- He had little compunction about burgling the Razor Crest. Admittedly he was getting his own stuff, but still.
- Boba made it sound like Jango was his real father, and didn't bring up that he's a clone. (That's a stretch, but it goes to Boba's dishonesty.)
- Either he could follow the Imperial tracking signal, or he was tipped off to where they were going.
- Jango wasn't a Mandalorian, according to the PM of Mandalore. Okay, maybe he was a foundling who took the Oath like Din did. But it's likely he's just a bounty hunter.
- Boba's new chompers were like the guy from There's Something About Mary, and those were done to be dishonest. ( I kid, I kid.)

I agree with you on most of that but I do think Boba was telling the truth that Jango was a Mandalorian. I remember back when they had that scene in TCW, that my nephew asked me about it and I told him the PM might have been just saying that because they want to be pacifists. The PM wouldn't want people knowing one of the most famous bounty hunters was Mandalorian because they were starting their new hippy we love everyone rebrand of their society. Otherwise we have to believe that Mandalorian armor is just laying around for everyone to use.

 

[RedheadKevin]

He did fly rather casually close to the cruiser without being challenged, didn't he?

I think Slave I might have sensor cloaking technology. I'm also curious why Boba seemed so surprised that the Empire was still around. Was Tatooine really so remote that he didn't even suspect that they were still kicking around? He had a ship that could have gone off-world. Didn't he ever leave Tatooine to see what the rest of the Galaxy was up to? Who did he think all those Stormtroopers he just killed worked for? Did he just think he was tripping balls in a "spice dream" during that whole battle? Did he think those drop ships didn't drop from somewhere? It just doesn't add up why he'd be so oblivious.
I guess we'll find out Friday morning.

 

[RedheadKevin]

EDIT: Accidentally quoted myself instead of editing. Ignore this post.

 

[squirk]

I think

I think Slave I might have sensor cloaking technology. I'm also curious why Boba seemed so surprised that the Empire was still around. Was Tatooine really so remote that he didn't even suspect that they were still kicking around? He had a ship that could have gone off-world. Didn't he ever leave Tatooine to see what the rest of the Galaxy was up to? Who did he think all those Stormtroopers he just killed worked for? Did he just think he was tripping balls in a "spice dream" during that whole battle? Did he think those drop ships didn't drop from somewhere? It just doesn't add up why he'd be so oblivious.
I guess we'll find out Friday morning.

I have a feeling that the thread will wind up being that something cathartic happened to Boba while on Tatooine these past five years or so. Near-death experience with the Sarlaac. Maybe an act of kindness from a stranger who helped nurse him back to health. Maybe some brutality on the part of the Empire toward innocent ppl on Tat once DSII was destroyed and the **** hit the fan.

Again, it's possible Favs is playing us all (and if that turns out to be the case, I will be the first to tip my hat and give him a golf clap), but again, this series really plays it straight down the middle. I really don't think they'd bring back such a lasting fan favorite (justified or not) just to make him an even more villainous character than what we've seen before.

 

[PantheraGem]

I think


I have a feeling that the thread will wind up being that something cathartic happened to Boba while on Tatooine these past five years or so. Near-death experience with the Sarlaac. Maybe an act of kindness from a stranger who helped nurse him back to health. Maybe some brutality on the part of the Empire toward innocent ppl on Tat once DSII was destroyed and the **** hit the fan.

Again, it's possible Favs is playing us all, but I really don't think they'd bring back such a lasting fan favorite (justified or not) just to make him an even more villainous character than what we've seen before.

I'm hoping this is the case. I like stories that have a morally ambiguous or "bad" character experience some sort of epiphany. Boba's arc could almost be similar to Ben Wade's in "3:10 To Yuma". I'm hoping that's what we get.

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

Maul's survival is handwaved. His hate kept him alive, and bunk like that. When Savage finds him, he's a crazed, gibbering, gaunt, shell of himself, with a robotic spider lower body and little explanation of how that happened and how he ended up there so far from Naboo.

Honestly, with the exception of the Mortis Arc, most of what I can't stand in Clone Wars comes from George and/or Katie. Ventress? Originally a Sith aspirant from Ratatak. The Nightsisters of Dathomir? Rancor-riding barbarian amazons. Maul? A Zabrak orphan raised by Palpatine to be as his name implies -- a blunt instrument, and his red-and-black coloring was head-to-toe tattooing he did as part of his being raised Sith, and an homage to the red skin of the original Sith species.

But now? All female Dark-side-users are either Dathomiri Nightsisters or exiled Dathomiri Nightsisters (the Witch of Endor). Ventress and Maul both came from there. The Nightsisters are unconvincing Bela Lugosi knockoffs and no rancors are in sight. Maul's markings are just something all of the Nightsisters and Nightbrothers do, has nothing to do with the Sith, and come in a variety of base colors for the 'Brothers. Also, Ventress' tattoos changed (for the worse) and she acquired human-style eyes, rather than her all-white sclera that was neither mistake nor artistic license.

That's not even getting into how George as revised, rerevised, and rererevised Boba, Jango, and Mandalorians in general. It just baffles me what he sees and likes... and what he doesn't... from the old EU. Loved Tim Zahn's name for the old Republic capitol before it became Imperial Center, so in TPM we got Coruscant. IMO, that beats the heck out of "Had Abaddon". Why not just call it Evil McEvil-Land? He loved the "what-if" story of a Maul who had somehow survived, showing up on Tatooine with digitigrade robot legs and having a final showdown with Obi-Wan, and insisted it get put into Clone Wars. But all of his own material about Boba and Jango? Rewritten and ultimately jettisoned. All of the lore-building and world-building of Mandalorians spanning ten thousand years in the EU? We only have what Filoni was able to sneak in around the edges, where it didn't directly contradict the Will of George. The EU Mandalore suuuuuuure looks a lot like Mandalore's "moon" Concordia. Concord Dawn is still in, Jango coming from there is now back in. Mandalorians who weren't Death Watch still wearing the armor is still in, thanks to Fenn Rau (who is really supposed to be Fenn Shysa, but his surname is... problematic... outside of the US), who was also on/from Concord Dawn.

I have wished for many years that George would have recognized he was great at ideas, but hated writing, and hired an actual writer or writers he trusted to take his ideas and turn them into good stories. Most of the implausibility, most of the fishbowl effect, most of the sheer stupid levels of coincidence is traceable -- with neon arrows -- to George. Maul is just one that has had a lingering impact, with Dave trying to take something that should never have been in the actual canon and make it even slightly not-stupid.

 

[HMSwolfe]

I have wished for many years that George would have recognized he was great at ideas, but hated writing, and hired an actual writer or writers he trusted to take his ideas and turn them into good stories.

He’s an awful writer, but more than capable of great ideas, both Star Wars and Indiana Jones being testaments to that. It’s one of the main reasons I love ESB so much—it’s George’s ideas, filtered by Kurtz, written by Kasdan, and directed by Kershner. People good at their jobs doing their jobs, unlike the prequels where the King was in charge and his word, however stupid, was law.

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

He’s an awful writer, but more than capable of great ideas, both Star Wars and Indiana Jones being testaments to that. It’s one of the main reasons I love ESB so much—it’s George’s ideas, filtered by Kurtz, written by Kasdan, and directed by Kershner. People good at their jobs doing their jobs, unlike the prequels where the King was in charge and his word, however stupid, was law.

Exactly. And the whole reason he got Brackett (and then Kasdan) was because... well, he got into movies to be an editor. That's what he loves. He's uncomfortable with people and hates directing. He hates the discipline needed to write and sort through all the sticky plot points and come up with enough interesting material to fill the run time. Producing is okay because, for an involved producer, that's very much an idea-spitballer, which he loves. So he brought in people to shore up his weak points -- Leigh and Larry and Irv... and I think it says something rather unflattering about him that, after all that and everything else, he considers consistent fan-favorite The Empire Strikes Back to be the "weakest" of the six films he was directly involved in.

 

[firesprite]

The problem is George got so precious about "his" story that he forgot that writing isn't nearly the solitary pursuit that it's been romanticized to be. Writers are always at their best when they actively work with people they trust, who will tell them the truth about when things aren't working, and when the writer is willing to take the advice of these trusted confederates. That's how we got Empire.

Writers who exist in echo chambers of how amazing they are produce dreck. That's how we got the prequels.

 

[Riceball]

Exactly. And the whole reason he got Brackett (and then Kasdan) was because... well, he got into movies to be an editor. That's what he loves. He's uncomfortable with people and hates directing. He hates the discipline needed to write and sort through all the sticky plot points and come up with enough interesting material to fill the run time. Producing is okay because, for an involved producer, that's very much an idea-spitballer, which he loves. So he brought in people to shore up his weak points -- Leigh and Larry and Irv... and I think it says something rather unflattering about him that, after all that and everything else, he considers consistent fan-favorite The Empire Strikes Back to be the "weakest" of the six films he was directly involved in.

Don't forget his ex-wife, whose editing of ANH made it the classic that it is.

 

[HMSwolfe]

Exactly. And the whole reason he got Brackett (and then Kasdan) was because... well, he got into movies to be an editor. That's what he loves. He's uncomfortable with people and hates directing. He hates the discipline needed to write and sort through all the sticky plot points and come up with enough interesting material to fill the run time. Producing is okay because, for an involved producer, that's very much an idea-spitballer, which he loves. So he brought in people to shore up his weak points -- Leigh and Larry and Irv... and I think it says something rather unflattering about him that, after all that and everything else, he considers consistent fan-favorite The Empire Strikes Back to be the "weakest" of the six films he was directly involved in.

And yet, that film has the least Special Edition changes of the three…

 

[squirk]

He’s an awful writer, but more than capable of great ideas, both Star Wars and Indiana Jones being testaments to that. It’s one of the main reasons I love ESB so much—it’s George’s ideas, filtered by Kurtz, written by Kasdan, and directed by Kershner. People good at their jobs doing their jobs, unlike the prequels where the King was in charge and his word, however stupid, was law.

I think you and Inquisitor Peregrinus are quite right. He has “vision,” and is gifted in constructing the framework of the story - the plot, the arcs, the beats, the archetypes, the emotions - but he’s not the one that should be doing the actual telling.

That said, I think one thing the PT has going for it is cohesiveness. Say what you will (and I will) about GL’s execution, but boy-howdy, he knew exactly where he wanted to go, how he was going to get there, and what the end looked like.

I bitch about the ST a lot, but I really do actually enjoy the films. I think they could have been a lot better if there had been a singular guiding artistic vision across all three films - someone like a GL - instead of “filmmaking by committee” with KK and Bob Iger trying to shovel product out the door as fast as possible.

I maintain that there is a brilliant trilogy of films buried somewhere in the PT that would have come out if GL had let someone else do the actual telling. A Bill Belichick to someone else’s Tom Brady, or a Sean Payton to someone else’s Drew Brees.

 

[Riceball]

I noticed that, and thought it odd as well at the time. But you'd think that if there was some double-crossing going on, and they were trying to maintain the charade, the SD would have made a show of "trying" to shoot Boba down?

Not that it's relevant to the post and your point, but I feel it necessary to point out that Moff Gideon's ship wasn't an ISD, it was a light cruiser. A particular class of ship that was seen a lot in Rebels and it, along with the Gozanti, are (to me) a welcome departure from the ISD we always saw used in the movies.

 

[squirk]

Not that it's relevant to the post and your point, but I feel it necessary to point out that Moff Gideon's ship wasn't an ISD, it was a light cruiser. A particular class of ship that was seen a lot in Rebels and it, along with the Gozanti, are (to me) a welcome departure from the ISD we always saw used in the movies.

Yes, you got me. Mea culpa.

 

[HMSwolfe]

I think you and Inquisitor Peregrinus are quite right. He has “vision,” and is gifted in constructing the framework of the story - the plot, the arcs, the beats, the archetypes, the emotions - but he’s not the one that should be doing the actual telling.

That said, I think one thing the PT has going for it is cohesiveness. Say what you will (and I will) about GL’s execution, but boy-howdy, he knew exactly where he wanted to go, how he was going to get there, and what the end looked like.

I bitch about the ST a lot, but I really do actually enjoy the films. I think they could have been a lot better if there had been a singular guiding artistic vision across all three films instead of “filmmaking by committee” with KK and Bob Iger trying to shovel product out the door as fast as possible.

I maintain that there is a brilliant trilogy of films buried somewhere in the PT that would have come out if GL had let someone else do the actual telling. A Bill Belichick to someone else’s Tom Brady, or a Sean Payton to someone else’s Drew Brees.

I really appreciate some things from the PT on a purely conceptual level. The idea of pitting two disposable, dehumanized forces against each other as a sinister power play behind the scenes? The dynamic of Obi-Wan and Anakin as sort of beat-cops on Coruscant? Hell, I really think AOTC has the most going for it on a conceptual level. It’s all in the shoddy execution and the army of yes-men George surrounded himself with that made the PT so bad. And I give the trilogy props for actually being someone’s vision, as opposed to the focus-tested, safe, and sterile ST.

 

[squirk]

And I give the trilogy props for actually being someone’s vision, as opposed to the focus-tested, safe, and sterile ST.

A million times, this. ^