Studio Half Scale TOS Enterprise Scratch build
- Thread starter SteveNeill
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healvis
Well-Known Member
Looking good Steve. It would kill me having those pieces of wood there. Is it not possible to run some fishing line between the top of the 2 pylons or nacelles to counterbalance it sort of like a bi-plane? And adding a little weight near the bussard caps to balance it, maybe the lead they use to balance wheels on cars. You have done yourself proud Steve.
John.
John.
Chrisisall
Master Member
This is the best thread I've ever followed, with the most fun build videos I've ever seen.
SteveNeill
Sr Member
Those pieces of wood are a removable structure and not attached to the base. I only leave them there to avoid the enviable. You can counter balance sure but you'll still have the problem of the pylons trying to fold down over time. Just like the real on is now. It's slowly ripping and tweaking the engineering section.
Who is going to see it when I'm the only one here? For pictures and visitors or the occasional use on film remove them by sliding them out.
Steve
Who is going to see it when I'm the only one here? For pictures and visitors or the occasional use on film remove them by sliding them out.
Steve
SteveNeill
Sr Member
Thanks guys and thanks Lou! My hero!
Steve
Steve
Well that's an interesting question. With all the wonderful bracing and metal tubing, how long would it take for a noticable sag?
I'd imagine that we'd be dead or probably not care about such things when that day eventually comes. I hate the idea of a model that has to be prepped in order to be properly viewed.
I'd even go to the trouble of a full steel frame or even thin discreet supports that attach to the base so that it look fairly nice even when in "support mode".
Just my humble opinion of course.
Nick
I'd imagine that we'd be dead or probably not care about such things when that day eventually comes. I hate the idea of a model that has to be prepped in order to be properly viewed.
I'd even go to the trouble of a full steel frame or even thin discreet supports that attach to the base so that it look fairly nice even when in "support mode".
Just my humble opinion of course.
Nick
SteveNeill
Sr Member
Thanks Richard!
Look I'm sure they won't sag in my life time. But insurance is a good thing. If no one can see it what's the difference? Insurance is the difference. If you came over to see the model you wouldn't see the braces. It's that simple and saves me all the trouble of welding and re-inventing the wheel.
You guys have lots of time to build your personal models. I don't. It's my job. I have some more kit orders to fill and 2 customer builds coming up. A pro DP that can help me shoot this on green screen but of course within a time frame.
This model is a true studio model in that sense. You seen it without the braces. I have left it free standing for days. No problems.
Steve
robn1
Master Member
I think bracing the nacelle itself would be easy enough. The tough part is the strut, the weight of the nacelle will flex it over time; both down to the rear and outward. Counter-weighting the front end would compound this tendency.
You could probably brace the nacelle with something like Steve used for the engineering section, plywood or maybe brass or aluminum. Just a flat piece that won't flex. It wouldn't need to run the full length, about halfway should do.
You'd need to make the strut from something rigid, that won't flex. And brace it to the hull well enough to stay put. Maybe a V shaped piece of aluminum that would attach to the hull's wood form, of course this would make disassembly difficult.
You could probably brace the nacelle with something like Steve used for the engineering section, plywood or maybe brass or aluminum. Just a flat piece that won't flex. It wouldn't need to run the full length, about halfway should do.
You'd need to make the strut from something rigid, that won't flex. And brace it to the hull well enough to stay put. Maybe a V shaped piece of aluminum that would attach to the hull's wood form, of course this would make disassembly difficult.
No problem, fellas! Just wanted to give a little something back to a community that has taught me so much. I'm beyond pleased to be have been a (albeit small) part of this project
Now, if anyone who has one of Steve's kits would be able to get me the length of the secondary hull from the rear of the pylons to the exterior of the shuttlebay doors, then I can get started on the in-scale shuttlebay I've been wanting to do up.
Wouldn't do to just have an in-scale Shuttlecraft to go with it, but no shuttlebay
hehBtw, saw that last vid. Un-freakin-believable, my friend! She's quite a beaut, and so close to finished, too. Having watched all this unfold, from building the master to molding/casting to your own build-up of the kit, has been one helluva fantastic journey. Thanks for including us in this.
Now I really wish I somehow had the money to get myself one of these. I'd be willing to give up an organ or my first-born if you're interested :lol
JMChladek
Sr Member
Carbon fibre makes sense as that is what ILM ended up resorting to using for their super huge models to prevent obvious sagging. So I could see it used here as well. But it would indeed be expensive. A structural engineer could also come up with some kind of load bearing armature as well (something that the nacelle and pylon are built around to handle the weight, as opposed to the pylon itself being the load bearing structure). But hey, even with studio models, when they are stored the nacelles are braced to help prevent sagging anyway. So I see no problem with Steve's low tech solution.
Bi-plane rigging on a model sags over time, same as hard joints if things aren't balanced. Plus, one would need to drill some holes in spots to mount the thread or wires anyway. So I don't recommend that method for bracing a model. I've tried it on smaller models and even then the results were dodgy at best.
Personally, I think the primary reason why Matt Jefferies went with a swept back pylon on the Phase II E design (which evolved into the movie E) is because the straight pylons probably caused a few headaches with the building team when it came to fabrication and use in effects shots. Plus he was likely thinking ahead that even if Phase 2 was short lived as a series, the model might need to be around for awhile in case it was used in future projects as well (or hung from the ceiling in the Smithsonian).
Bi-plane rigging on a model sags over time, same as hard joints if things aren't balanced. Plus, one would need to drill some holes in spots to mount the thread or wires anyway. So I don't recommend that method for bracing a model. I've tried it on smaller models and even then the results were dodgy at best.
Personally, I think the primary reason why Matt Jefferies went with a swept back pylon on the Phase II E design (which evolved into the movie E) is because the straight pylons probably caused a few headaches with the building team when it came to fabrication and use in effects shots. Plus he was likely thinking ahead that even if Phase 2 was short lived as a series, the model might need to be around for awhile in case it was used in future projects as well (or hung from the ceiling in the Smithsonian).
Commander Max
Sr Member
I hate to say this but Steve is quite wrong on the structure. Aluminum will not sag unless the weight is greater than the aluminum's ability to resist the moment(of force).
That is if the structure is designed right, and considerations are given to what the nacelle is made of. The model will fall apart long before the nacelle will ever sag.
I'll refer to my thread post #67-
http://www.therpf.com/f10/studio-scale-tos-enterprise-11-25-feet-105319/index3.html
Just because others have had the problems, it shows they didn't give much consideration to the models' structure.
That is if the structure is designed right, and considerations are given to what the nacelle is made of. The model will fall apart long before the nacelle will ever sag.
I'll refer to my thread post #67-
http://www.therpf.com/f10/studio-scale-tos-enterprise-11-25-feet-105319/index3.html
Just because others have had the problems, it shows they didn't give much consideration to the models' structure.
SteveNeill
Sr Member
Max as I have said before I have left these sit around on the model unsupported except for the BRASS tubing inside the solid Alumilite castings. I ran a test and placed and bunch of weights on one over hanging the edge of a table. After two days nothing. so I felt safe.
The Brass tubes anchor into the plywood secondary hull and are well supported. The secondary hull has very thick all epoxy glass sockets. The nacelles themselves are a bit thick and heavy I suppose in the future I can make them lighter.
I couldn't find any aluminum locally that was the right size and hollow.
So even with softer brass you have to be right because I'm having no problems. I'm just chicken which is why I made the chicken sticks.
I'm an artist not an engineer! LOL!
Steve
The Brass tubes anchor into the plywood secondary hull and are well supported. The secondary hull has very thick all epoxy glass sockets. The nacelles themselves are a bit thick and heavy I suppose in the future I can make them lighter.
I couldn't find any aluminum locally that was the right size and hollow.
So even with softer brass you have to be right because I'm having no problems. I'm just chicken which is why I made the chicken sticks.
I'm an artist not an engineer! LOL!
Steve
SteveNeill
Sr Member
I forgot to say, "I stand corrected."
Anyway the nacelles are nearly finished. Another day tomorrow and they are done. All that leaves is to fill the gaps on the shroud. Move the anti collisions to the proper location.
Friday I will lay in the LEDs and motors for the cages. The man designing the Nacelle circuits and lights has a broken pelvis and it will be quite a long time until he's back to work and rightly so. so I'm taking matters into my own hands as the video will explain.
Saturday finish off the base and move on to the chair. That's the plan. I am close to finishing.
Video tomorrow.
Steve
Anyway the nacelles are nearly finished. Another day tomorrow and they are done. All that leaves is to fill the gaps on the shroud. Move the anti collisions to the proper location.
Friday I will lay in the LEDs and motors for the cages. The man designing the Nacelle circuits and lights has a broken pelvis and it will be quite a long time until he's back to work and rightly so. so I'm taking matters into my own hands as the video will explain.
Saturday finish off the base and move on to the chair. That's the plan. I am close to finishing.
Video tomorrow.
Steve
Shizman
Well-Known Member
I'll get you those measurements unless someone else beats me to it. It may not be until late tonight though since I have a busy night ahead of me when I get home of non-model related activities.
I'd love to have a shuttlebay in there, but it seems to me that it would block access to the back of the ship's internals unless the bay was removeable.
SteveNeill
Sr Member
No video tonight guys bare with me I'm on a mission. I nearly finished her tonight and have a few hours in the morning and she's done. Except for the electronics and motors-lighting in the Bussards. That will happen this weekend.
More tomorrow.
Steve
More tomorrow.
Steve
fraley1701
Active Member
Classic Steve! Love what you're doing and I have learned so much.
Thank you! :thumbsup
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