Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Pre-release)

[Egon Spengler]

One of the things I really loved about the Thrawn trilogy was that Luke's arc was him trying to reconcile his need to rebuild the Jedi order and yet not having the confidence in himself to accomplish such an important task. Saving his father was one thing, but rebuilding the Jedi literally all by himself was too monumental of a task when he felt like he was merely still a padawan. Much of that uncertainty was a nice way to show how his rushed training had been detrimental to him in the long term, even if it served him in saving his father. I always felt it was a nuanced continuation of his natural character progression. While he sought to use what he had learned he also found that he had to discover things on his own and eventually he does find some solace and confidence in training Leia and even helping Mara Jade.

Not that I mean to derail the thread but Inquisitor Peregrinus your statements about Luke's apotheosis not being fully addressed in Return of the Jedi made me think of this. It's one of the reasons I want to re-explore that trilogy again to see if that element holds up as well as I remember.

To me that still feels more optimistic than what the films gave us. Not that I needed these movies to be a film adaptation of Heir to the Empire or anything but I just got more hope from those books than I did the movies.

I met Timothy Zahn and told him they should have used his books for the new films.

 

[cboath]

Ep VIII definitely missed the mark in not making the plight of the main characters dark enough imo. Although storywise the Resistance maybe on the backfoot, our main trio is anything but.

Finn - beat Phasma and still alive with the Resistance still alive and active
Poe - has a minor setback in 8 but going to be a commander and still a top pilot
Rey - has beaten Kylo (again), killed Snoke, strongest and only Jedi left

This in comparison to where the OT characters were left after empire

Han - frozen in carbonite and taken to Jabba
Leia - lost her love, empire is closing in and stronger than ever
Luke - lost his hand, was played with by Vader (showing his initial win was a fluke), Emperor still exists

It’s because it seems hopeless that their eventual victory (and the fact that they work hard towards it) also is so rewarding.

Although I’m bashing on VIII, I do think it would have been a good movie if it wasn’t Star Wars or if it was a standalone not related to the main trilogy (the Holdo maneuver was still bad to introduce)

Yeah and those differences are a lot of why 8 fails.

Using your OT references...they were open plot lines to be resolved in Jedi.
In the ST, Finn vs Phasma is complete. Poe, never had an big in depth story. If you never saw him again, you wouldn't be very disappointed you dind't know what happened to him. Rey, for one DID NOT kill Snoke, Kylo did. She's also bested him again - seeing as she woke first she could easily have killed him. Is there any need/desire for round 3? Not really

The ST has taken great pains to kill off the stars of the OT. I worry for Lando's health frankly.

But, one of the main points of the the middle of a trilogy is to set up the final. There's nothing left after 8 that HAS to be resolved. The only thing out there is defeat of the FO, but the PT ended with everyone losing, so why not the ST? Aside from the fact they're dumbly making it the end of the skywalker saga without focusing on the skywalker saga in the ST. In that case, it has to end happy, so the only thing left is defeating the FO. There is nothing else which harms the desire for a 9 because there's nothing you just have to know remaining.

 

[Richard Baker]

The ST has taken great pains to kill off the stars of the OT. I worry for Lando's health frankly.

My worry is that they decide to blow up the Falcon.
Yes, I am more hardware oriented, but it is as much a character as any organic and while it changes crew from time to time, it transcends the characters it enables along their journey...

 

[cboath]

I don't disagree. But, with it being the focal point of their ST themed SW parks, i would think it's on the safe side. Just keep RJ away from it.

I'm thinking the only way you can use this to unite all 3 trilogies is to do a version of GL's original ending where Rey can't do it alone so Luke and Obi-Wan step back across (just temporarily) to take part in the final take down.

When i first read the original idea i thought we missed out on something really cool. Doing it here just seems like a ruse to try and win people back.

 

[Bigdaddy]

I think they need to cut a massive check to Ford and bring back Han, maybe with a mechanical spider body. If you think about it we never actually see him die, just get shanked and fall down a hole. If there's one thing I've learned about the retconned SW it's that falling into something and dying isn't really "death".
It would fit in well with my idea of Mace returning with a mechanical arm (Grievous style hand for cool saber spinning!)
I can't be the only one that wants to see spider-centaur Han have a saber battle with the new and improved Maul, while Mace Windu puts the beat down on Palpatine and tells ghost Anakin he's a whiny punk that should have stayed out of it 60 years ago!
It would be EPIC baby!

 

[Psab keel]

No one's ever REALLY gone...RLM

 

[Halliwax]

So if Disney is "white slavers" then what does that make George who sold his "kids"?

Let me tell ya.. I got a friend in Disney.. and I’m not talking about working in the park

I don’t mention this because most people wouldn’t believe me.. and second when ever I’m with this friend he always brings up never mention my name

But he works for ILM and is now pretty high up there in the animation department..

Trust me when I say.. Disney sucks, and does not care about their workers...

I can’t share stories... but I’m not a fan of Disney and haven’t been for years

Lucas sold the company with the thought his stories would be passed on, then they spat in his face

I’d be a little negative about the company too

Btw I love the white slavers comment he made, I will always support someone who stands up to bullies

 

[Joek3rr]

Let me tell ya.. I got a friend in Disney.. and I’m not talking about working in the park

I don’t mention this because most people wouldn’t believe me.. and second when ever I’m with this friend he always brings up never mention my name

But he works for ILM and is now pretty high up there in the animation department..

Trust me when I say.. Disney sucks, and does not care about their workers...

I can’t share stories... but I’m not a fan of Disney and haven’t been for years

Lucas sold the company with the thought his stories would be passed on, then they spat in his face

I’d be a little negative about the company too

Btw I love the white slavers comment he made, I will always support someone who stands up to bullies

I wonder why George felt he had to sell. I don't know really the ins and outs of the film industry. But couldn't Lucasfilm have gone on by itself? Without being owned by Disney?

 

[Halliwax]

I wonder why George felt he had to sell. I don't know really the ins and outs of the film industry. But couldn't Lucasfilm have gone on by itself? Without being owned by Disney?

Honestly I think he was sick and tired of making movies he wanted to make and getting ridiculed for it (pretty sure he even mentions that, and that the films he makes now are personal and will never be seen by anyone but himself)

I think he was just done with it all

Which I now find hilarious that since he’s gone everyone wants him back

My buddy said Lucas was a huge family man, and treated every worker like they were family.

Disney came in, let a lot of people go, cut major benefits, and you are now just a replaceable number...

There are many animators still in lucasfilm at this time who have zero computer skills.. they mostly do artwork.. Disney comes in and let them go...

One of these old school animators is a teacher I had of mine’s brother (my teacher lives down the road from me) and when I talk to him about his brother he says the same thing Disney let him go after 30 years.. (his brother also worked at ILM and knew my friend because they are both from the same town)

Fun fact, when I was in middle school my teacher new I liked animation, he brought in a vhs of his brothers latest project he was working on, basic raw computer animation.. it was the first ice age.. really cool, pretty sure his brother was physically sculpting the models

Not a friendly family company like everyone thinks.. it’s all about the money.. I think I’ve said too much lol

He was involved pretty heavily in ep7, his name is even in the credits for 7 and 8. I would always ask him for spoilers and he would tell me

“Danny it doesn’t work like that.. these characters and ships don’t have names.. they all are numbered.. I couldn’t tell ya who’s who or what’s what”

And plus he was never a Star Wars fan lol

Cool kid though.. he has done a lot of the transformers films, ninja turtles.. pacific rim... the rest escapes me now..

 

[Psab keel]

Well that is illuminating. Sad, but illuminating.

 

[sztriki]

that the films he makes now are personal and will never be seen by anyone but himself

Porn.

Which I now find hilarious that since he’s gone everyone wants him back

Not me. Goes to show how sheepish most people are. At least not on the artistic side. I’m also not sure why he couldn’t keep the company without making new SW films, it’s not like there was huge pressure that he does. They could have run til the end of the world on licences.

 

[NeoRutty]

Lucas is like Stephen King for me... I think they’re both brilliant and I’ve read/watched most of what they’ve done... but there is a loooooooooot if terrible stuff in their portfolios.

 

[CT1138]

Lucas is like Stephen King for me... I think they’re both brilliant and I’ve read/watched most of what they’ve done... but there is a loooooooooot if terrible stuff in their portfolios.

Arguably, this could be said of any artist. I imagine that most artists rarely if ever reveal or discuss often the projects they consider personal failures.

 

[NeoRutty]

Arguably, this could be said of any artist. I imagine that most artists rarely if ever reveal or discuss often the projects they consider personal failures.

Well of course, I guess I should say like brilliant on both ends... like headscratching good to bad.

Write stand by me (the body) and shawshank... then write books with such poor dialogue and premise I claw my eyes out reading

Star Wars which made me obsessed with wanting to make movies... then other end you have TPM - which made me wish I became a Barista.

 

[Psab keel]

If anything it proves that no matter how great an artist is, everyone is imperfect.

 

[sztriki]

Arguably, this could be said of any artist. I imagine that most artists rarely if ever reveal or discuss often the projects they consider personal failures.

I’d be really intrigued by that in general. I guess every piece of work is a baby to the artist although there are pieces I made and grown to hate or even abandon. I might be wrong but Stephen King in particular has been talking quite negatively about some of his work, but can’t remember the exact details.

 

[Bigdaddy]

Emperor Porgatine:

 

[Joek3rr]

So I've been thinking about this. Have they dropped any hints about the Emperor's return in this trilogy? At first, I thought, no. But then I remembered this.

Why the heck is the Emperor's leitmotif being played for Snoke? John just get lazy or, is he hinting at something else?

 

[sztriki]

John just get lazy or, is he hinting at something else?

I literally thought “jeez, John Williams is getting lazy” when I heard it. People were basing their Snoke = Plageuis theory on the male choir theme in TFA being similar to the music that plays in ROTS when Palps is telling the story so dunno, would take it with a pinch of salt.
However funny enough, I was thinking of this the other day, the only kinda sensible way of shoehorning Palps into the ST I can see is that Snoke is some botched variation of Palpatine, clone, reincarnation, whatever. Contrived but at least would tie in a bit.

 

[ConvergencePro]

I literally thought “jeez, John Williams is getting lazy” when I heard it. People were basing their Snoke = Plageuis theory on the male choir theme in TFA being similar to the music that plays in ROTS when Palps is telling the story so dunno, would take it with a pinch of salt.
However funny enough, I was thinking of this the other day, the only kinda sensible way of shoehorning Palps into the ST I can see is that Snoke is some botched variation of Palpatine, clone, reincarnation, whatever. Contrived but at least would tie in a bit.

Thats my thoughts as well. Its really about the only somewhat natural way for them to tie him into the universe without it being any more of a disaster, and it can be written in a way that it's not even a focal point of the scene. Like Rey could be finding out she's a clone of Luke/Anakin and the Snoke part just be weaved in as extra information while shes learning this. Hell it could be a 5 min scene and do all the work two entire films couldn't if done well enough..

And I love John Williams, seen him a couple times in concert, listen to his OST's at work all the time. I've really begun to think that he's probably a little burnt out, at least on starwars (has he really worked on much else lately?) I found TFA's soundtrack to be completely forgettable and the same can be said for TLJ as well (although the rest of the issues in that film certainly don't create an atmosphere of anything to be memorable about) And lord knows how much Disney sticks their nose into the creative process with their soulless hyper-engineered film making techniques.