Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post-release)

Don't want to see this ad? Sign up for anRPF Premium Membershiptoday. Support the community. Stop the ads.

What did you think of Star Wars: The Last Jedi?

  • It was great. Loved it. Don't miss it at the theaters.

    Votes: 154 26.7%
  • It was good. Liked it very much. Worth the theater visit.

    Votes: 135 23.4%
  • It was okay. Not too pleased with it. Could watch it at the cinema once or wait for home video.

    Votes: 116 20.1%
  • It was disappointing. Watch it on home video instead.

    Votes: 70 12.1%
  • It was bad. Don't waste your time with it.

    Votes: 102 17.7%

  • Total voters
    577

Potroclo

Active Member
In the past two years, I discovered the old Star Wars RPG from West End Games that I've mentioned here, and that is a TON of fun to read, even if you aren't actually playing, but even moreso (I expect) if you get to play.
You couldn't believe how much if you play it with the right people.
I personally got into SW through the WEG RPG first, more than 20 years ago now. It's not that WEG's work captures perfectly the SW universe, the fact is it created most of its early basis. I was hurling thermal detonators at stormtroopers before I even got to see the movies, believe me when I say I've lived in the SW universe, and the friends I played these adventures with we're still like brothers today. (I have to say we live in different countries and make huge efforts to get together and revive our SW at least once a year, that's how dedicated we are and how much WEG and SW marked our youths). That gave us a very buffet-like aproach to everything SW from the very beginning and we recently came back to playing (after an almost 10 year hiatus) thanks to TFA in particular. Yet the buffet aproach might not save you from the disilusion of seeing the universe you've dedicated so much, take a turn you do not like...

I've developped a personal "canon" over the years, which includes the OT, Zhan's material and a couple old videogames, books and comics (all EU, "Legends" now). But not much else really. Yet I have to say I loved TLJ. True, the feeling I got through the whole film is, very much as Inquisitor Peregrinus just said, that it would have heavily benefited from, say, an early private screening with industry professionals (if not selected fans) who could have recomended better editing, just as ANH did and thanks to what it became the historic masterpiece it is. (Lose the cringey Poe-Hux conversation at the beginning, downsize the canto-bight thing, check out the unnecessary Maz Kanata call, use Ackbar with/instead of Holdo... I don't know, make some cuts here and there for better pacing and most consistent story and for *s sake leave the Luke milking seacows scene for the DVD extras: you know a secluded Luke is going to be controversial, there's no need to overdo it!) With some tweaks TLJ would have had way better of a reception. Yet I personally enjoyed it very much, just as I enjoyed the PT when I was a kid or I enjoy now a fanfic short film for example: to me it's just other fans and creators, like me, keeping the SW flame alive, like me and my friends. There's just more money (even whole corporations) behind some of the material.

Still, this:
It seems like so many Star Wars fans these days see one movie that they don't like. Throw up their hands and say "Star Wars is dead I hate all the new stuff".
I believe is still going to happen no matter what. My friends share my view on SW, we've always taken what we liked and ignored the rest, but it didn't prevent a couple of them to be so utterly revolted by the "new" SW that they've baned it from their lives altogether. To this day they still refuse to see TLJ (they got out of the cinema halfway through it) or anything that may come next from the franchise. If it wasn't for the rest of us, with whom they can still share the SW they like, they would have checked completelly out of the fanbase (in their own words).

And I think that's because it's not even the content that matters, it's the meaning behind it. The one thing that upset my friends the most wasn't at all that Luke had became a sullen loner, or the Canto Bight "nonsense" or the bad pacing or anything. It was the use of hyperspace as a weapon. And I think it represents very well the issue. The fact is that, even if they visually, and even plot-wise, recognize it was astounding and very well done, the idea of kamikaze-ing a ship in hyperspace breaks the logic of the Star Wars universe, because, why not simply use the same tactic with the death stars? Why not use that tactic as a solution to every conflict throughout all the movies? And so what's the point in them, then?

Whether this is important or not, what they mean is you can't ignore the new stuff, because it has a ripple effect in all the rest, the lore and the stories told, especially when you, as a storyteller, are backed by the fact you own the franchise in the most real connotation of the term. When you see a fanmade film, there's respect and admiration for the universe it's set in, and if there's not, at least you can just ignore it because it's a fanmade thing. When seeing the new film, they felt Diseny was using and abusing SW just for profit. They can't ignore the afront made, not to them, but to the franchise, and from their point of view, as you can't unsee what has been seen, it tarniches it all, the old and the new.
And as much as I appreciated the effort made by Johnson, trying to introduce new things and all, I do feel he was just given so much freedom because the people on top of the hierarchy didn't really understood what it's all about, they just figured if they put a fan in charge, the fans would like the result. Which comes to say, the people really in charge have no idea what they're doing, and they're doing it wrong. And that's the grudge right there. They've been given something valuable and they are abusing and breaking it for lack of understanding and love for it. The thing in their favor is they've taken a step back since TLJ and seem now to be advancing way more cautiouslly, yet their primal motivation hasn't changed.

This might be overdramatizing, and in the end there's allways the despecialized edition and the fact you cannot change the good material that's already out there even if it is no longer "canon", but it does close the door a bit to new, better material. Don't get me wrong, I still think considering SW dead is overreacting, and though I now consider my buffet aproach a lie to myself, I'll keep it so I always be able to enjoy both the good ol' stuff and the new thing for what it is. I even maintain the hope that future material, like the Cassian and Mando series will be good and enjoyable. But I've come to respect and even support the angry fanbase because you can argue all you like about details, but overall, they are right. So even though some of us are able to pick what we like and shield ourselves from the rest, it is not for everybody, and the ones that can't do it should be respected and supported. Let not this break the fanbase. You'll see, it will get better in the end.

tl,dr; SW WEG RPG is top notch.
 

Don't want to see this ad? Sign up for anRPF Premium Membershiptoday. Support the community. Stop the ads.

Joek3rr

Sr Member
You couldn't believe how much if you play it with the right people.
I personally got into SW through the WEG RPG first, more than 20 years ago now. It's not that WEG's work captures perfectly the SW universe, the fact is it created most of its early basis. I was hurling thermal detonators at stormtroopers before I even got to see the movies, believe me when I say I've lived in the SW universe, and the friends I played these adventures with we're still like brothers today. (I have to say we live in different countries and make huge efforts to get together and revive our SW at least once a year, that's how dedicated we are and how much WEG and SW marked our youths). That gave us a very buffet-like aproach to everything SW from the very beginning and we recently came back to playing (after an almost 10 year hiatus) thanks to TFA in particular. Yet the buffet aproach might not save you from the disilusion of seeing the universe you've dedicated so much, take a turn you do not like...

I've developped a personal "canon" over the years, which includes the OT, Zhan's material and a couple old videogames, books and comics (all EU, "Legends" now). But not much else really. Yet I have to say I loved TLJ. True, the feeling I got through the whole film is, very much as Inquisitor Peregrinus just said, that it would have heavily benefited from, say, an early private screening with industry professionals (if not selected fans) who could have recomended better editing, just as ANH did and thanks to what it became the historic masterpiece it is. (Lose the cringey Poe-Hux conversation at the beginning, downsize the canto-bight thing, check out the unnecessary Maz Kanata call, use Ackbar with/instead of Holdo... I don't know, make some cuts here and there for better pacing and most consistent story and for *s sake leave the Luke milking seacows scene for the DVD extras: you know a secluded Luke is going to be controversial, there's no need to overdo it!) With some tweaks TLJ would have had way better of a reception. Yet I personally enjoyed it very much, just as I enjoyed the PT when I was a kid or I enjoy now a fanfic short film for example: to me it's just other fans and creators, like me, keeping the SW flame alive, like me and my friends. There's just more money (even whole corporations) behind some of the material.

Still, this:
I believe is still going to happen no matter what. My friends share my view on SW, we've always taken what we liked and ignored the rest, but it didn't prevent a couple of them to be so utterly revolted by the "new" SW that they've baned it from their lives altogether. To this day they still refuse to see TLJ (they got out of the cinema halfway through it) or anything that may come next from the franchise. If it wasn't for the rest of us, with whom they can still share the SW they like, they would have checked completelly out of the fanbase (in their own words).

And I think that's because it's not even the content that matters, it's the meaning behind it. The one thing that upset my friends the most wasn't at all that Luke had became a sullen loner, or the Canto Bight "nonsense" or the bad pacing or anything. It was the use of hyperspace as a weapon. And I think it represents very well the issue. The fact is that, even if they visually, and even plot-wise, recognize it was astounding and very well done, the idea of kamikaze-ing a ship in hyperspace breaks the logic of the Star Wars universe, because, why not simply use the same tactic with the death stars? Why not use that tactic as a solution to every conflict throughout all the movies? And so what's the point in them, then?

Whether this is important or not, what they mean is you can't ignore the new stuff, because it has a ripple effect in all the rest, the lore and the stories told, especially when you, as a storyteller, are backed by the fact you own the franchise in the most real connotation of the term. When you see a fanmade film, there's respect and admiration for the universe it's set in, and if there's not, at least you can just ignore it because it's a fanmade thing. When seeing the new film, they felt Diseny was using and abusing SW just for profit. They can't ignore the afront made, not to them, but to the franchise, and from their point of view, as you can't unsee what has been seen, it tarniches it all, the old and the new.
And as much as I appreciated the effort made by Johnson, trying to introduce new things and all, I do feel he was just given so much freedom because the people on top of the hierarchy didn't really understood what it's all about, they just figured if they put a fan in charge, the fans would like the result. Which comes to say, the people really in charge have no idea what they're doing, and they're doing it wrong. And that's the grudge right there. They've been given something valuable and they are abusing and breaking it for lack of understanding and love for it. The thing in their favor is they've taken a step back since TLJ and seem now to be advancing way more cautiouslly, yet their primal motivation hasn't changed.

This might be overdramatizing, and in the end there's allways the despecialized edition and the fact you cannot change the good material that's already out there even if it is no longer "canon", but it does close the door a bit to new, better material. Don't get me wrong, I still think considering SW dead is overreacting, and though I now consider my buffet aproach a lie to myself, I'll keep it so I always be able to enjoy both the good ol' stuff and the new thing for what it is. I even maintain the hope that future material, like the Cassian and Mando series will be good and enjoyable. But I've come to respect and even support the angry fanbase because you can argue all you like about details, but overall, they are right. So even though some of us are able to pick what we like and shield ourselves from the rest, it is not for everybody, and the ones that can't do it should be respected and supported. Let not this break the fanbase. You'll see, it will get better in the end.

tl,dr; SW WEG RPG is top notch.
I'm always surprised how much the hyperspace ramming scene bothered people. Remind your friends that hyperspace ramming as first mentioned in the ROTS visual guide. So it's not a new concept. And I like telling people just because we seen it happen once, doesn't it's easy or can happen all the time. And the canon is new so they can slip in the first use of it anywhere they want.

I know a lot of people think there's a disrespect for the old Star Wars. And these news guys are stomping on it big time. But when you read "The Art of" books. You read how much they love the old movies and characters. Rian even draws a comparison to God, saying his inability to see the first Star Wars a much as he'd like. (before the days that everyone had VHS) Had an weird affect. "And so it was a very strange and very mythological experience of Star Wars. It mythologized the films in a very powerful way because, like God's absence, the actual object of your worship was not there!"

You really get the notion that they struggled with being reverent and respectful of old. And yet creating a impactful story that wasn't just a love letter of a movie with the old characters being preserved in time capsule, so to speak.

Fans always bring up Han Solo as evidenced that they hate the old. Saying that they have reverting back to what he was, ruining is arc. But then I tell them how it's opposite. In ANH he didn't believe the Force, calling it a "hokey religion" and mocked the Jedi ways and weapons. But in TFA he's the guy to give our new heroes their first history lesson of the Force and Jedi. And how it was all true. The beautiful irony.

Sorry I went on longer then I wanted :)
 

Don't want to see this ad? Sign up for anRPF Premium Membershiptoday. Support the community. Stop the ads.

Halliwax

Legendary Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
And I thought people on the RPF wouldn't be so rude.
I certainly didn’t single you out and call you a troll... but I will tell ya I’m overly exhausted with this damn thread and if I were a mod would have locked it months ago...

I seriously wish I had the time all of you guys have to be able to still b6:ch (or support) about this movie.. writing paragraph after paragraph..

Good god, both sides positive and negative, get the hell over this already it’s a freak’n movie... who gives a dang anymore...
 

Joek3rr

Sr Member
I certainly didn’t single you out and call you a troll... but I will tell ya I’m overly exhausted with this damn thread and if I were a mod would have locked it months ago...

I seriously wish I had the time all of you guys have to be able to still b6:ch (or support) about this movie.. writing paragraph after paragraph..

Good god, both sides positive and negative, get the hell over this already it’s a freak’n movie... who gives a dang anymore...
But....but.....but halliwax, it's Star Wars!

;);)
 

Don't want to see this ad? Sign up for anRPF Premium Membershiptoday. Support the community. Stop the ads.

Collectorchris

Well-Known Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Can we call the TOD on this thread?

Time of death 12/04/2018 9:03 AM. Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Post Release) May it Rest in Piece!

We anticipated your arrival, flocked to your opening, argued our opinions for almost a year, alas nothing changed....We can only hope we are re-united in December of next year, when we get to do it all again!
 

Don't want to see this ad? Sign up for anRPF Premium Membershiptoday. Support the community. Stop the ads.

CT1138

Sr Member
Dredging this back up, because I have a new detail I noticed when watching RotJ today. I've mentioned before how much I love the flashback sequences in TLJ, and how well they connect with the rest of the movies, such as Yoda's "fear leads to anger" mantra, Obi-Wan's "certain point of view" speech, and how the last thing Luke ever saw were the eyes of a frightened boy whose master had failed him mirroring Obi-Wan leaving Vader to die on Mustafar. But I found a new on in Obi-Wan's line about feelings. This is more retroactive in Palpatine's appearance as puppet master in ROS, but I think it works.

Obi-Wan: "Bury your feelings deep down, Luke. They do you credit, but they could be made to serve the Emperor."
mz4hNHK.png


Luke saw the Dark Side within Ben Solo because that's what Palpatine wanted him to see. Ben's destiny was already chosen for him. Palpatine knew that Luke would fear the resurgence of the Empire and the Sith, and all Luke had to do was show up with suspicion, and seal the fate of the Galaxy.
 

Joek3rr

Sr Member
Dredging this back up, because I have a new detail I noticed when watching RotJ today. I've mentioned before how much I love the flashback sequences in TLJ, and how well they connect with the rest of the movies, such as Yoda's "fear leads to anger" mantra, Obi-Wan's "certain point of view" speech, and how the last thing Luke ever saw were the eyes of a frightened boy whose master had failed him mirroring Obi-Wan leaving Vader to die on Mustafar. But I found a new on in Obi-Wan's line about feelings. This is more retroactive in Palpatine's appearance as puppet master in ROS, but I think it works.

Obi-Wan: "Bury your feelings deep down, Luke. They do you credit, but they could be made to serve the Emperor."
View attachment 1329902

Luke saw the Dark Side within Ben Solo because that's what Palpatine wanted him to see. Ben's destiny was already chosen for him. Palpatine knew that Luke would fear the resurgence of the Empire and the Sith, and all Luke had to do was show up with suspicion, and seal the fate of the Galaxy.
You are brave soul for bringing this back up! Lol But I love it!!!
 

Jm419

Sr Member
I'd say that's fair if you ignore the fact that the trilogy wasn't written by a single writer. It's glaringly obvious that it wasn't planned at all, which resulted in the clusterf*** that was ROS. TLJ undid too much of TFA for ROS to have a chance of being good; rather than being new and interesting, it reminded me of two kids playing with action figures in the sandbox.

"No, wait, it actually happens this way!"
"No, that's dumb, this is the way it should go!"
"Well, you're dumb!"
"Am not!"

This scene in particular is one of the worst in the film and shows that Johnson plain didn't understand the character. I have a hard time reconciling this Luke with the Luke of the OT, and I think that's a pretty common opinion. Would Luke have had some PTSD from surviving the worst galactic war in recent memory? Of course. Would the guy who redeemed Space Hitler have decided to kill a child? Probably not, IMO.
 

dascoyne

Master Member
For the record I started off as a defender of this movie throughout this thread when I only watched the movie and was giving the benefit of the doubt to a film for going in an unexpected direction. Only after being stabbed through the eyeballs with Rise of Skywalker and learning it was the ill-conceived reworking of the franchise in The Last Jedi that you can count me in with the folks who hate this movie. I hate this movie.
 

Don't want to see this ad? Sign up for anRPF Premium Membershiptoday. Support the community. Stop the ads.

Don't want to see this ad? Sign up for anRPF Premium Membershiptoday. Support the community. Stop the ads.

Top