Picard102
Sr Member
No they got it right.
139 posts (15% of the thread) whining about a show they've never watched is well within "running down a hallway screaming your head off".
Star Trek: Strange New Worlds
- Thread starter Noeland
- Start date
No they got it right.
139 posts (15% of the thread) whining about a show they've never watched is well within "running down a hallway screaming your head off".
The one thing that I noticed lately, is a very subtle shift in how I view all of this, and how everyone reacts to the existence of SNW, now that Season One is in the can.
- I am not a fan of the franchise, just a viewer that likes the content.
- I enjoy this series as much as the first one when it aired years ago. To the point I watch each episode of SNW a couple of times, in between reading all the posts on this site (and others). I may eventually find my viewing count matches between TOS and SNW, that is a possibility.
- Picard I didnt 'get', but thats ok, you watch a show, mull it over, move on.
I know the second season of SNW is in the works, and I wish all of the people working on the project, all the best and much success.
After all, we all have a choice in what we want to read, watch, listen to, create, etc - for Strange New Worlds, its getting attention, which in itself, is something I expected just as much as when Gene shook things up in a previous generation.
And yes, its just a TV show, and one I enjoy watching
View attachment 1586870
This is a perfectly polite and rational post. Congratulations on being civilized, and keep on liking what you like.
See, people? It's not so hard.
That being said, the NuChapel screenshot is deeply stupid, and symptomatic of the sort of lowbrow, snarky, millennial-speak that the franchise now employs. Ostensibly to "try and appeal to a younger audience", but I suspect it's really because they're just that dumb, and can only write on a CW level. This style of writing arguably all started with Joss Whedon and BUFFY, which was great in its time, but the difference is that everyone else who has come after and tried to rip off that style just appears derivative and dumb.
Remember, Alex Kurtzman co-wrote the script which revealed that McCoy's nickname is the result of his ex-wife taking everything but his "bones" in the divorce, rather than the correct answer (which TOS never explained, because it respected the intelligence of the audience), which is that it's a riff on "sawbones" (the old slang term for a surgeon).
I'm issuing a creative-writing challenge to the participants of this thread: Take a classic scene from TOS, TNG, etc. and rewrite it in the style of NuTREK. How would the characters act and speak, if written in that style?
On the flipside, take a scene from SNW, and rewrite it in the style of TOS, TNG, etc. How would the characters act and speak, if written in that style?
I would do things a little differently. Try a few different writing styles from different decades.
Take a TOS episode and write it in the style of David Milch. Think ‘Spectre of the Gun’, meets Deadwood.
I am reasonably confident it will disturb some folks, maybe make some fearful of what they are watching, but I also imagine there would be an audience on this great planet of ours that will watch it.
ArtistTheGeek
Sr Member
It's almost like he can't hear himself
asalaw
Master Member
“Specter of the Gun” meets “Deadwood”:
Original:
KIRK
We’re trapped. They got their way. We’ve got to stand and fight.
SCOTT
Good. If they want a fight, let’s gie’em a fight.
KIRK
They’re experts at gun fighting. We don’t have a chance.
MCCOY
Well then, we’d better become experts, and fast.
SPOCK
That may not be necessary.
KIRK
Spock, you’ve got something?
SPOCK
A fact, Captain. Physical laws simply cannot be ignored. Existence cannot be without them.
MCCOY
What do you mean, Spock?
SPOCK
I mean, Doctor, that we are faced with a staggering contradiction. The tranquilizer you created should have been effective.
KIRK
It would have been effective, anywhere else.
SPOCK
Exactly. Doctor, in your opinion, what killed Mr. Chekov?
MCCOY
A piece of lead in his body.
SPOCK
Wrong. His mind killed him.
___________________________________
Deadwood version:
KIRK
We’re ***king trapped. The c***suckers got their way. We’ve got to plant our c***sucking feet square in the breach and meet their woeful ****ing intent with our own.
CALAMITY SCOTT
I can reconcile with that state of ****ing affairs, and no lie. I’ll meet them straight and introduce my leaden resolve right betwixt their ****ing eyes.
KIRK
They’re a mite better skilled in the lethal ****ing arts than we. I don’t reckon but we’re for Wu’s pig pen.
MCCOY
Then we’ll have to match those c***suckers with our own artful calculations, and with ****ing dispatch!
SPOCK
That may not be ****ing necessary.
KIRK
Spock, what dawns in that ****ing brainpan o’ yourn?
SPOCK
A ****ing fact, Captain. Physical laws of nature and Him what created ‘em cannot be ****ing ignored. What we is, we is, but without ‘em, we ****ing ain’t.
MCCOY
What’re you ****in’ fixin’ to lay before us, you Vulcan c***sucker?
SPOCK
I’m holding up to your incredulous ****ing vision that what which is, just cain’t be, and no ****ing lie. Your knockout smoke should’ve kicked him in the haid like a mule on Sunday and ended his steely fixation on ****ing wakefulness.
KIRK
And it woulda, but for being in this ****ing side of Hell itself.
SPOCK
Agreed. Doc McCoy, what do you ****ing reckon put Chekov over yonder in Wu’s ****ing pig pen?
MCCOY
He were ****ing ventilated, good and proper.
SPOCK
**** no. T’was the jellied mass twixt his ears done made him porcine ****ing fodder.
Original:
KIRK
We’re trapped. They got their way. We’ve got to stand and fight.
SCOTT
Good. If they want a fight, let’s gie’em a fight.
KIRK
They’re experts at gun fighting. We don’t have a chance.
MCCOY
Well then, we’d better become experts, and fast.
SPOCK
That may not be necessary.
KIRK
Spock, you’ve got something?
SPOCK
A fact, Captain. Physical laws simply cannot be ignored. Existence cannot be without them.
MCCOY
What do you mean, Spock?
SPOCK
I mean, Doctor, that we are faced with a staggering contradiction. The tranquilizer you created should have been effective.
KIRK
It would have been effective, anywhere else.
SPOCK
Exactly. Doctor, in your opinion, what killed Mr. Chekov?
MCCOY
A piece of lead in his body.
SPOCK
Wrong. His mind killed him.
___________________________________
Deadwood version:
KIRK
We’re ***king trapped. The c***suckers got their way. We’ve got to plant our c***sucking feet square in the breach and meet their woeful ****ing intent with our own.
CALAMITY SCOTT
I can reconcile with that state of ****ing affairs, and no lie. I’ll meet them straight and introduce my leaden resolve right betwixt their ****ing eyes.
KIRK
They’re a mite better skilled in the lethal ****ing arts than we. I don’t reckon but we’re for Wu’s pig pen.
MCCOY
Then we’ll have to match those c***suckers with our own artful calculations, and with ****ing dispatch!
SPOCK
That may not be ****ing necessary.
KIRK
Spock, what dawns in that ****ing brainpan o’ yourn?
SPOCK
A ****ing fact, Captain. Physical laws of nature and Him what created ‘em cannot be ****ing ignored. What we is, we is, but without ‘em, we ****ing ain’t.
MCCOY
What’re you ****in’ fixin’ to lay before us, you Vulcan c***sucker?
SPOCK
I’m holding up to your incredulous ****ing vision that what which is, just cain’t be, and no ****ing lie. Your knockout smoke should’ve kicked him in the haid like a mule on Sunday and ended his steely fixation on ****ing wakefulness.
KIRK
And it woulda, but for being in this ****ing side of Hell itself.
SPOCK
Agreed. Doc McCoy, what do you ****ing reckon put Chekov over yonder in Wu’s ****ing pig pen?
MCCOY
He were ****ing ventilated, good and proper.
SPOCK
**** no. T’was the jellied mass twixt his ears done made him porcine ****ing fodder.
i like the 2nd idea; not so much the 1st (due to not wanting brain cells to die)
jts1031
Sr Member
That is art, right there. Just needs a reference to hoopleheads.
asalaw
Master Member
since watching TOS since it was originally broadcast (and then syndication), i knew something was missing. hoopleheads. nailed it.
any story can be improved, and each generation will make their mark on a franchise.
asalaw
Master Member
Fixed. Let it never be said of me that I don’t listen to the hoopleheads what pays my ****ing freight, and no mistake.
__________________
Specter of the Deadwood, Revised:
KIRK
We’re ***king trapped. The c***suckers got their way, and the hoopleheads gave them cheer and ****ing comfort. We’ve got to plant our c***sucking feet square in the breach and meet their woeful ****ing intent with our own.
CALAMITY SCOTT
I can reconcile with that state of ****ing affairs, and no lie. I’ll meet them straight and introduce my leaden resolve right betwixt their ****ing eyes.
KIRK
They’re a mite better skilled in the lethal ****ing arts than we. I don’t reckon but we’re for Wu’s pig pen.
MCCOY
Then we’ll have to match those c***suckers with our own artful calculations, and with ****ing dispatch!
SPOCK
That may not be ****ing necessary.
KIRK
Spock, what dawns in that ****ing brainpan o’ yourn?
SPOCK
A ****ing fact, Captain. Physical laws of nature and Him what created ‘em cannot be ****ing ignored. What we is, we is, but without ‘em, we ****ing ain’t.
MCCOY
What’re you ****in’ fixin’ to lay before us, you Vulcan c***sucker?
SPOCK
I’m holding up to your incredulous ****ing vision that what which is, just cain’t be, and no ****ing lie. Your knockout smoke should’ve kicked him in the haid like a mule on Sunday and ended his steely fixation on ****ing wakefulness.
KIRK
And it woulda, but for being in this ****ing side of Hell itself.
SPOCK
Agreed. Doc McCoy, what do you ****ing reckon put Chekov over yonder in Wu’s ****ing pig pen?
MCCOY
He were ****ing ventilated, good and proper.
SPOCK
**** no. T’was the jellied mass twixt his ears done rendered him porcine ****ing fodder.
Cephus
Master Member
No, but a lot of us are asking WHY?!?! and that question goes entirely unanswered. "Because!" isn't an answer. How can you have a discussion if it remains at such an absurdly shallow, simplistic level?
Cephus
Master Member
And yes, we all noticed where you completely FAILED to produce a single post to support your contention.
Shuck and jive, shuck and jive, it seems that's all you people can do.
ArtistTheGeek
Sr Member
Why should we have to? When we as people enjoy a thing, and want to communally enjoy it with others... but there are people going "THIS IS TERRIBLE THAT'S A FACT AND YOU HAVE TO PROVE TO US WHY IT ISN'T" ...it's just incredibly tiring. Sometimes all you want to do is talk about a thing you enjoy. Not need to prove it's worth to people who think their opinion is actual fact.
Had there been a little bit more of "well in my opinion I find this show lacking but I understand you may like it" then there'd be more of the discussion you seem to think should be happening. But there hasn't been one bit of that. Simply "it's terrible and you can't argue against that!"
Cephus
Master Member
Because this is how intelligent discussions work. We detail exactly WHY we have problems with these shows and everyone on your side is running around like a 4-year old going "we like it!" This is where one side is so ridiculously shallow, because they don't have any REASONS for anything. It's just a bald emotional reaction based on nothing but fee-fees. There's never been any kind of rational, intellectual, critical evaluation of the subject matter, it's all just... Mikey will eat it, he'll eat anything!
But that's just stupid!
This is quite a fine summation of the cultural war in general, and an ironic summation of what STAR TREK was vs. what it has become: logic vs. emotion.
I keep finding myself coming back to this moment, where NuChapel slaps NuSpock:
This scene is pure cringe, with no subtext, no subtlety, no maturity. And NuSpock comes across even worse than those bad moments in the third season of TOS where the real Spock suddenly seemed unable to grasp basic human emotions or nuances of conversation, and takes everything literally (despite many instances of him being smarter than that in the first two seasons). Like that bit in “That Which Survives”, where, after a shake-up, Uhura asks him “What happened?”, and he replies, “The occipital area of my head seems to have impacted with the arm of the chair.”. That’s pretty much what we’re getting, now.
Anyway, the scene is all kinds of wrong for these characters. Set aside, for a moment, the fact that they’re not on duty. Set aside, for a moment, the fact that they’re having a personal conversation. Set aside, for a moment, that all of this is wildly out of character for the people we knew from TOS, where Chapel loved Spock, and he could not reciprocate, much less have dinner with her and talk about his love life.
Smacking a superior officer—or a fellow person—in this way, even during an off-duty conversation, is so outside the bounds of the characters Roddenberry and company created that it’s practically anathema. The whole ethos of STAR TREK is about respecting each other and all life wherever it is found. The crew of the Enterprise in TOS were civilized.
Flash-forward to now, and you have snarky (and, let us not forget, bisexual and slutty, because that’s supposedly “empowering”, these days) NuChapel smacking emo-Spock while they’re talking about fee-fees, like they’re teenagers on a CW show, not professional, adult Starfleet officers of the 23rd century.
Maturity, dignity, honesty, intelligence, and so many other key elements have just been drained right out of this franchise. Instead, we have bratty children talking about their feelings and their sex lives while spouting pretentious gibber-jabber. This is in no way STAR TREK.
asalaw
Master Member
As usual, the Celtic Kegger has chimed in on this topic with deadly accuracy. The reason modern “adult” characters are so often seen behaving like children is because they’re written by children, to appeal to children.
Cephus
Master Member
That's very much the case. Society seems to be devolving. In a time when you'd think that people were getting smarter, that's clearly not the case. People can't spell. They can't use language properly. They can't do basic mathematical operations without a calculator. Worse yet, people have lost the capacity for rational thought. They can't reason anything out and come to a logical, evidence-based conclusion. It's all based on childish fee-fees. They don't care what's demonstrably true. They don't care about what's defensibly via evidence. They only care what makes them happy and the second that you back them into a corner and asking how they came to any conclusion, they have no means whatsoever of expressing themselves, they can't do it. They just get mad. They can't see that any of this is a problem which, in and of itself, is a problem.
I weep for the future of humanity.
It's not just out of this franchise, it's out of everything. You can't dare say anything that might challenge anyone's preconceptions or possibly make them sad. If you do, the pitchforks and torches come out and they're trying to hunt you down. This is the level of rational discourse today. It's not something that anyone ought to be proud of. In fact, it ought to embarrass people. When someone asks how you justify a particular position and the best they can come up with is "I don't have to tell you!", it's time to pack it in. Go back to pre-school where you were supposed to learn some of these basic life lessons. You're not ready to sit at the adult table with the rest of us.
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OF COURSE everything we write in a discussion is our opinion. It's a given. It doesn't have to be said, by them or by you."...bad writing/attacks on fans/forced politics/forced diversity and “representation” - in your opinion
"entertainment is now garbage" - in your opinion
"beloved franchises are vandalized left, right, and center" - in your opinion
"STAR TREK and the rest have become dumbed-down, state-sponsored propaganda machines" - oh my god, what?
Not one of the lines you quoted insulted another member. Unless you think someone stating an opinion contrary to yours is an insult, in which case that's on you.
