Star Trek: Strange New Worlds

Well said. I never read the fanzines, except for one issue of one I bought at a con in the 70’s. It had Spock on the cover hoisting a lirpa from Amok Time, but I don’t remember the title. And slash fic never held any appeal for me.

I do think fan films offer a lot of hope. I’ve seen several excellent Star Wars films (and a few bad ones), but unfortunately the Trek fan films lag behind. With the notable exception of ST Continues, they’re almost universally unwatchable. (I find that, as a rule of thumb, long fan films shouldn’t be, and the most common problem with even short fan films is they don’t seem to know how to write good endings.) But I do still hold out hope for more good ones. We’ll see.


In my observation, a lot of the armchair critics out there are very good at pointing out and articulating what doesn’t work about a show or film, but then their own suggestions for improvement are just as bad, if not worse. For example, many of the suggested fixes for the STAR WARS prequels thrown out over the years are pure, fannish cringe, and yet the fanboys are high-fiving each other because they could obviously do it SO much better than Lucas.

I speak the following criticism after I first acknowledge my respect for the man. Chris Gore was talking the other day about how to resolve the KENOBI problem of how Obi-Wan knows that Vader is alive and in the suit by the time of the original STAR WARS. Gore threw out a number of really dumb suggestions, like Vader and Kenobi meeting during the show, yet with Vader declining to kill him, and instead telling him that if he ever left Tatooine, then he’d kill him. Which is both ridiculous and out of character. The correct answer is that Lucas intended for them to not meet between films, with the old EU explanation (that Kenobi saw holonet news footage of the suited Vader acting as the Emperor’s enforcer, and put two and two together) working perfectly fine. But, then, that doesn’t allow nostalgia to be ruthlessly and desperately exploited via the “rematch of the century”, now, does it?

In the case of STAR TREK, you tend to get a lot of unfocused fanfilms which dwell on characters’ personal lives, etc. An excellent point which GOING BOLDLY makes is that there was a marked shift in the fandom as more and more casual/non-sci-fi fans came in, during the mid-to-late-1970s. That’s when you started to see fanfic and articles about how STAR TREK was really about the relationships between the characters, rather than the voyages of the Enterprise. Shippers instead of fans of science-fiction and storytelling. Much like how nerd culture has now been taken over by cosplayers and, for lack of a better term, “fake” fans, who have seen all of the Marvel movies, wear the licensed t-shirts, and think that means they know everything about the characters and the lore.

What we’re seeing now is sort of the corporate version of all that, with non-fans who are coming in to actually produce the shows and movies, and focusing on all the wrong elements.

And, of course, the difference between a fan and a professional writer is that a fan will indulge their “what I want to see” fantasies, whereas a professional writer considers the internal logic of the stories and characters. The first story you would write as a fan should be the very last one you’d write as a professional.

All too many fanfilms are packed with wink-wink references to previous stories and characters (or, in the case of prequels, clumsily and heavy-handedly foreshadow future events), among other tropes. They can get costumes, cinematography, and music spot-on, but then employ abysmal writing and/or acting.

In terms of STAR TREK fanfilms, I personally prefer the ones like STARSHIP EXETER, which take the template set by TOS, but use a new ship and crew, thus avoiding stepping on the original characters and stories. Just create new characters and tell new stories on a new ship using the same format as the actual show. That’s how you keep it both familiar and fresh and the same time.
 
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the notable exception of ST Continues, they’re almost universally unwatchable. (I find that, as a rule of thumb, long fan films shouldn’t be, and the most common problem with even short fan films is they don’t seem to know how to write good endings.) But I do still hold out hope for more good ones. We’ll see.
You are absolutely spot-on with your assessment regarding Star Trek Fan Films.

Most
(look, I said “Most” not “All”) Star Trek fan films are really pretty bad, with all the writing sophistication of kids playing Star Trek in their backyard…90% of all fanfilm stories involve beaming into a forest (a neighborhood open space) and being immediately attacked by Klingons of questionable fitness, resulting in some very dodgy fight choreography, victory, and a beam up.

It’s really pretty bad stuff… it’s all “shooting ray guns and punching stuff”.
 
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In my observation, a lot of the armchair critics out there are very good at pointing out and articulating what doesn’t work about a show or film, but then their own suggestions for improvement are just as bad, if not worse. For example, many of the suggested fixes for the STAR WARS prequels thrown out over the years are pure, fannish cringe, and yet the fanboys are high-fiving each other because they could obviously do it SO much better than Lucas.

I speak the following criticism after I first acknowledge my respect for the man. Chris Gore was talking the other day about how to resolve the KENOBI problem of how Obi-Wan knows that Vader is alive and in the suit by the time of the original STAR WARS. Gore threw out a number of really dumb suggestions, like Vader and Kenobi meeting during the show, yet with Vader declining to kill him, and instead telling him that if he ever left Tatooine, then he’d kill him. Which is both ridiculous and out of character. The correct answer is that Lucas intended for them to not meet between films, with the old EU explanation (that Kenobi saw holonet news footage of the suited Vader acting as the Emperor’s enforcer, and put two and two together) working perfectly fine. But, then, that doesn’t allow nostalgia to be ruthlessly and desperately exploited via the “rematch of the century”, now, does it?

In the case of STAR TREK, you tend to get a lot of unfocused fanfilms which dwell on characters’ personal lives, etc. an excellent point which GOING BOLDLY makes is that there was a marked shift in the fandom as more and more casual/non-sci-fi fans came in, during the mid-to-late-1970s. That’s when you started to see fanfic and articles about how STAR TREK was really about the relationships between the characters, rather than the voyages of the Enterprise. Shippers instead of fans of science-fiction and storytelling. Much like how nerd culture has now been taken over by cosplayers and, for lack of a better term, “fake” fans, who have seen all of the Marvel movies, wear the licensed t-shirts, and think that means they know everything about the characters and the lore.

What we’re seeing now is sort of the corporate version of all that, with non-fans are coming in to actually produce the shows and movies, and focusing on all the wrong elements.

And, of course, the difference between a fan and a professional writer is that a fan will indulge their “what I want to see” fantasies, whereas a professional writer considers the internal logic of the stories and characters. The first story you would write as a fan should be the very last one you’d write as a professional.

All too many fanfilms are packed with wink-wink references to previous stories and characters (or, in the case of prequels, clumsily and heavy-handedly foreshadow future events), among other tropes. They can get costumes, cinematography, and music spot-on, but then employ abysmal writing and/or acting.

In terms of STAR TREK fanfilms, I personally prefer the ones like STARSHIP EXETER, which take the template set by TOS, but use a new ship and crew, thus avoiding stepping on the original characters and stories. Just create new characters and tell new stories on a new ship using the same format as the actual show. That’s how you keep it both familiar and fresh and the same time.
Most fanfics that I ever ran across were just attempts to place ones' self via proxy into that world, or establish a relationship between characters that was never intended more than just being "crewmates". Admittedly, I tried my hand at my own version of Star Trek, but trying to write characters, design an entire universe and create a story that doesn't come off like a bad session of d&d mixed with a "find your fate" book ended up giving me grey hairs (not to mention the whole Axanar thing). My work sucked eggs, so I set it aside and decided just to keep it to myself.

Now...if folks out there trying to write for trek and sw would do the same, I think we'd all breathe easier.
 
Most fanfics that I ever ran across were just attempts to place ones' self via proxy into that world, or establish a relationship between characters that was never intended more than just being "crewmates". Admittedly, I tried my hand at my own version of Star Trek, but trying to write characters, design an entire universe and create a story that doesn't come off like a bad session of d&d mixed with a "find your fate" book ended up giving me grey hairs (not to mention the whole Axanar thing). My work sucked eggs, so I set it aside and decided just to keep it to myself.

Now...if folks out there trying to write for trek and sw would do the same, I think we'd all breathe easier.
What you’re describing there is an essential part of the so-called Mary Sue character. The other part is that such characters tend to be paragons, hence my description of Uhura as one. It’s generally regarded as bad writing.

Also, saw this today. Needs no introduction…
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What you’re describing there is an essential part of the so-called Mary Sue character. The other part is that such characters tend to be paragons, hence my description of Uhura as one. It’s generally regarded as bad writing.

Also, saw this today. Needs no introduction…
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I predict the Rockabilly look will be abandoned in Season. 2.
 
I predict the Rockabilly look will be abandoned in Season. 2.
Agree - impressed by the hair and makeup team for this seasons look (stays perfect no matter what situation), I am also sure that some styles will change - now all we need is Colm Meany for season 2 and I’m good with a rematch (hair or otherwise)
 
The hair thing is just distracting. Nothing at all wrong with this look. It is IMHO much better.

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And hews much more closely to this man, which is the whole point.

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Overall, I don't know, I don't hate this show. I'm enjoying it more than Discovery or Picard, but not by a whole lot. It's a tough time to be a Star Trek fan.
 
It's a tough time to be a Star Trek fan.

It's not really. All of the Star Trek that you love is still there. If I want to watch Star Trek, I've got the DVDs on the shelf. I can watch any of the good movies. I can watch any of the good shows. I don't need anything new. It would be nice, but I won't keel over dead if I don't get it. Same with Star Wars. The original trilogy is right there. I don't need to consume product and look forward to next product. I've already got what I want.
 
Yes, obviously we can and we do watch the older work produced by other people. But that is exactly why it is a tough time. Any fan of any media wants anything new produced in that media to be satisfying and well made. If what was made previously is beloved, it's tough when the new movie and TV show or game, what have you, just isn't as enjoyable or satisfying.

While I don't think it tarnishes the past work done if new work is terrible, it absolutely effects the over all enjoyment of a franchise.
 
It's not really. All of the Star Trek that you love is still there. If I want to watch Star Trek, I've got the DVDs on the shelf. I can watch any of the good movies. I can watch any of the good shows. I don't need anything new. It would be nice, but I won't keel over dead if I don't get it. Same with Star Wars. The original trilogy is right there. I don't need to consume product and look forward to next product. I've already got what I want.

Absolutely. Which is why I continue to urge people to unplug from the matrix and not just keep supporting anything and everything with a brand-name stamped on it.


I already have everything I need, but it's still deeply painful to see the legacy of the franchise torn to shreds. Again, the analogy I like to use is that you've gotten a divorce, and, even though you've moved on with your life, it's still deeply painful to watch from afar as your ex spirals out of control, and ends up as a crackhead and prostitute on skid row.

Constantly wanting more, more, more is not a good thing. Think about how special and unique and wonderful STAR WARS was when it was just three movies and some spin-off materials, instead of a constant flood of mediocre "content". To say nothing of Kylo Ren lettuce, lightsaber toothbrushes, and rainbow-pride-themed Stormtrooper Funko Pops. Same with TREK. There are literally hundreds of episodes to watch and rewatch, and the franchise has arguably already said everything of value that it needed to say.
 
Yes, obviously we can and we do watch the older work produced by other people. But that is exactly why it is a tough time. Any fan of any media wants anything new produced in that media to be satisfying and well made. If what was made previously is beloved, it's tough when the new movie and TV show or game, what have you, just isn't as enjoyable or satisfying.

While I don't think it tarnishes the past work done if new work is terrible, it absolutely effects the over all enjoyment of a franchise.

It's fair if you're not enjoying something. Tt's your opinion, after all. However, the metrics kind of say you're in the minority
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While Rotten Tomatoes isn't perfect, it's still a relatively decent indicator of how a project is being received.
 
I've just read through this entire thread. I think we're watching entirely different shows. Both me and my wife are loving Strange New Worlds. But then we love Discovery too, and enjoyed Picard.

It's a *great* time to be a Star Trek fan as far as we're concerned

It's fair if you're not enjoying something. Tt's your opinion, after all. However, the metrics kind of say you're in the minority
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While Rotten Tomatoes isn't perfect, it's still a relatively decent indicator of how a project is being received.


Rotten Tomatoes is worthless, especially now. I simply do not believe any of the "numbers" coming from the access media.

THE RISE OF SKYWALKER'S audience score has been fixed at 86% for 2 1/2 years, just as it was when it suddenly became frozen at 86% right when that film came out and people hated it.

I've just read through this entire thread. I think we're watching entirely different shows. Both me and my wife are loving Strange New Worlds. But then we love Discovery too, and enjoyed Picard.

It's a *great* time to be a Star Trek fan as far as we're concerned

Fortunately, there's no accounting for taste.


Thanks for reporting to us from Bizarro World, where the shows are good and the franchise is healthy.
 
Rotten Tomatoes is worthless, especially now. I simply do not believe any of the "numbers" coming from the access media.

THE RISE OF SKYWALKER'S audience score has been fixed at 86% for 2 1/2 years, just as it was when it suddenly became frozen at 86% right when that film came out and people hated it.
Rotten Tomatoes belongs to the Hollywood elites. The professional reviewer score is fixed, they can't give an honest opinion if they want to keep getting invited to the parties and the special showings and all of that. We know that they're getting rid of bad reviews on the consumer side too. Absolutely nothing there is remotely trustworthy.
 
Rotten Tomatoes belongs to the Hollywood elites. The professional reviewer score is fixed, they can't give an honest opinion if they want to keep getting invited to the parties and the special showings and all of that. We know that they're getting rid of bad reviews on the consumer side too. Absolutely nothing there is remotely trustworthy.
I’d say that sounds like a conspiracy theory, but the numbers are pretty revealing. Here’s last year’s abysmal Black Widow on RT:

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But the box office tells rather a different story. Domestic: $183,651,655. Foreign: $196,100,000. Worldwide total: $379,751,655.

Black Widow’s production budget was in excess of $200M. That means, due to marketIng expenses, gross participant distributions, and exhibitor take, that it needed to make at least $600M before it could turn a profit for Disney. That is what in the trades they call a flop.

And yet the audience score was 91%? Seems unlikely.

Similarly, the comparison for Eternals doesn’t seem to add up:

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Domestic: $164,870,234. Foreign: $237,194,665. Worldwide total: $402,064,899. Against a budget of $200M, that’s… OMG, what’s that awful smell?

And yet, the audience score is at 78%. At best, that seems inconsistent. At worst, well, let’s just say I’m skeptical that RT honestly reports numbers unless the film is truly popular and they don’t have to fudge anything with their algorithms.

As is probably the case with Spiderman: No Way Home, which shows an audience score of 98% and a worldwide gross of $1.9B. Or TG: M, whose current worldwide box office gross of $622,608,203 just three weeks into its run similarly reflects its 99% audience score. Spiderman NWH obviously made a handsome profit, and TG: M is well on its way if it hasn’t turned the corner already.

RT is fine for entertainment purposes, but for the true picture of a film’s popularity I’ll put my trust in dollars and cents every time.

[EDIT: And there is one more thing that tugs at the back of my mind about RT’s reported audience score. Under the words “Audience Score” for Eternals, you can see it says “10,000+ Verified Ratings.” Verified how exactly? How do we know those “10,000+“ people (assuming they’re not bots) actually saw the film and loved it? Did they upload their ticket stubs with little hearts drawn on them?]
 
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