judgedredd
Sr Member
All the Borg had to do was send more than one cube star fleet was pretty much wiped out with just one,so the Borg were obviously not that concerned.
Star Trek: First Contact questions
- Thread starter DavidS
- Start date
good point............
i mean that battle looked like another Wolf 359 all over again...
That's the opening of Assignment:Earth.
Two words my friend -- Doctor Who. He messes with everything and every now and then there's an after effect.
Thinking about it - Doctor Who only uses time travel as a story telling device, a few moments at the beginning and end to get where they're going and that's about it, proving your second point.
Time travel has just been abused over the years. Bad writers and producers who usually are looking for something to stuff into a package that's already pre-sold. JJ Trek is a perfect example.
About First Contact - I can't stand any Trek after TOS, but First Contact is the best they ever offered (I'll toss a few episodes of Enterprise in as well). Picard had some connection with the Borg - almost like he was still part of the hive - so he knew they were going back in time. And the Borg wouldn't dare go back and take us on as cavemen- those savages would have beat the crap out of them.
My biggest gripe about First Contact isn't so much the time travel nonsense, Picard being an obsessed revenge driven maniac or that Zephram Cocrane was some mumbling idiot. My biggest gripe that First Contact introduced that ruined one of the most unique elements that the TNG era introduced was...
THE BORG QUEEN
I LOATH the concept of the Borg Queen. It gives the Borg this tangible, single entity villain that our heroes can confront, deceive and defeat to save the day. The writers tried to keep the "collective" idea in there, but it's never portrayed as such since she still needs to give orders to her borg drones both vocally and physically. And seducing Data? :sick
Imagine if in "John Carpenter's The Thing" that the creature actually talked to the characters, or if there was one individual Thing that if killed, every other Thing dies. That would ruin a lot of what made the Thing so frightening that the Borg used to have during it's TNG era. They were a pure collective working to achieve a goal of total assimilation of all species. Not because they wanted power or knowledge, but because they believed they were doing everyone a favor. The capture and assimilation of Picard was one of those instances where they showed the Federation that if they could get Picard, Captain of the flagship of the Federation, they were going to get you. Resistance really was futile.
Now, I will admit that Alice Kridge did an amazing job portraying the Borg Queen and the make up work was second to none. So hats off to her and the make up department.
THE BORG QUEEN
I LOATH the concept of the Borg Queen. It gives the Borg this tangible, single entity villain that our heroes can confront, deceive and defeat to save the day. The writers tried to keep the "collective" idea in there, but it's never portrayed as such since she still needs to give orders to her borg drones both vocally and physically. And seducing Data? :sick
Imagine if in "John Carpenter's The Thing" that the creature actually talked to the characters, or if there was one individual Thing that if killed, every other Thing dies. That would ruin a lot of what made the Thing so frightening that the Borg used to have during it's TNG era. They were a pure collective working to achieve a goal of total assimilation of all species. Not because they wanted power or knowledge, but because they believed they were doing everyone a favor. The capture and assimilation of Picard was one of those instances where they showed the Federation that if they could get Picard, Captain of the flagship of the Federation, they were going to get you. Resistance really was futile.
Now, I will admit that Alice Kridge did an amazing job portraying the Borg Queen and the make up work was second to none. So hats off to her and the make up department.
PHArchivist
Master Member
Ouch - that is a boatload...!
Well if you'd like nearly all of them starting with TOS...
-The Naked Time
-Tomorrow is Yesterday
-City on the Edge of Forever (a good one)
-Assignment Earth
-All Our Yesterdays
-Yesteryear (TAS)
-Star Trek: IV
-We Will Always Have Paris (TNG)
-Time Squared
-Yesterday's Enterprise (one of the better ones)
-A Matter of Time
-Cause and Effect
-Time's Arrow
-Tapestry
-Firstborn (Worf's adult son travels from the future to the present)
-All Good Things (Another good one)
-Star Trek: Generations
-Past Tense (DS9)
-Visionary
-The Visitor
-Little Green Men
-Trials and Tribble-ations
-Time's Orphan
-Star Trek First Contact
-Parallax (Voyager)
-Time and Again
-Eye of the Needle
-Future's End
-Before and After
-Year of Hell (Timeline is deliberately altered- big "reset" of events at the end)
-Timeless
-Relativity
-Shattered
-Endgame
-Star Trek '09
(I'd include the episodes from Enterprise... but why bother? :lol)
No... Time Travel as a plot device hasn't been overdone at all in Trek.:lol
Kevin
Actually Bab-5 did not pan out like Uncle Joe wanted as they did not think they were going to get a 5th year.
He did manage to salvage it in the end but not the way he intended it to be.
He did manage to salvage it in the end but not the way he intended it to be.
You're right, I don't. However, JMS did and he set down some rules, followed them, and 100 or so episodes later had five seasons of a TV show and he did time travel right. So it can be done, which you challenged couldn't be. So I already proved you wrong and can move on now.
Kerr Avon
Master Member
For the most part, it did. Everything that happened in Season 4 was a mix of what was planned for the original Season 4 and 5, just compressed into one season. I personally think the heaviness of the arc served Season 4 very well ultimately with any fluff removed.
What do you expect from TNT though, they screwed the pooch so many ways when it came to B5 and Crusade. They're the same people who wanted a Easter special to have ***** ****** flying through the air throwing fireballs and lightning to liven it up before a producer took his script elsewhere in disgust.
Solo4114
Master Member
One thing worth noting in terms of the particularly well-structured B5 is that the show had the same main writer (JMS himself) who also was the show creator for one of the longest runs in TV history, as I recall.
My point here is that for such a long-form narrative, it's my understanding that it is EXTREMELY unusual to have a single person as the visionary for that show for the vast majority of the series. Apparently he wrote 92 of the 110 episodes, plus all five of the movies and the pilot. That's an unheard-of amount of control, and I suspect it allowed him to really keep the show pretty well structured. Apparently he also built in "trap doors" for characters so that if, at any time, a character needed to bow out (such as Andrea Thompson's abrupt departure), he could write them out quickly and painlessly. That said, he also had a remarkably stable cast who didn't have any accidents, pregnancies, "I'm sick of this crap" moments, etc.
In essence, B5 was one of the most stable, centrally controlled and created shows in the sci-fi genre, at least based on my understanding of how a lot of shows operate. So, while it stands as an example of what can be achieved in terms of a clearly structured, followed-through story, I think the approach to production behind it and the freedom given to JMS to actually create his show is pretty unusual.
Now, as we've seen elsewhere, being able to make "your" story without interference isn't always everyone's cup of tea, but certainly in TV world, it's extremely unusual and therefore admittedly a bit unfair to compare other shows to B5.
My point here is that for such a long-form narrative, it's my understanding that it is EXTREMELY unusual to have a single person as the visionary for that show for the vast majority of the series. Apparently he wrote 92 of the 110 episodes, plus all five of the movies and the pilot. That's an unheard-of amount of control, and I suspect it allowed him to really keep the show pretty well structured. Apparently he also built in "trap doors" for characters so that if, at any time, a character needed to bow out (such as Andrea Thompson's abrupt departure), he could write them out quickly and painlessly. That said, he also had a remarkably stable cast who didn't have any accidents, pregnancies, "I'm sick of this crap" moments, etc.
In essence, B5 was one of the most stable, centrally controlled and created shows in the sci-fi genre, at least based on my understanding of how a lot of shows operate. So, while it stands as an example of what can be achieved in terms of a clearly structured, followed-through story, I think the approach to production behind it and the freedom given to JMS to actually create his show is pretty unusual.
Now, as we've seen elsewhere, being able to make "your" story without interference isn't always everyone's cup of tea, but certainly in TV world, it's extremely unusual and therefore admittedly a bit unfair to compare other shows to B5.
Vermithrax 4
Well-Known Member
My burning question is, if the Borg have assimilated thousands of races across the galaxy then why were the only Borg we ever saw...human??? I mean, where were the Gorn Borg or the Tholian Borg or the Horta Borg?
SmilingOtter
Master Member
darthgordon
Sr Member
As seen even TOS, time travel is possible and was even done to study the past. However, the dangers of time travel are pretty well known. The Federation actually has a Department of Temporal Investigations in case time travel does happen. There is a Temporal Prime Directive about changing the past or giving people in the past information about the future.
Why choose any particular date? Earth was still an easy target... whether it was 1 million B.C. or 2063. I think part of the idea is that the Borg assimilate cultures taking qualities, technology and memories of an entire species. I think they want a little more substance and acheivements than making fire.
I'm not sure what the question is here... but we have no idea how long they were above Earth in the past either. They probably studied the sensor information they gathered from the Borg vortex and worked out away to recreate it off screen. I'm sure they go to the bathroom too... we just don't see it.
This is during the second dark ages of humanity. Earth is a mess, communication is not what is today... the world has just become a much bigger place again. This was not a government operation where everything was recorded and documented. Zephram Cocrane and Lily were both in on the fact that the timeline had been altered. History probably records that Lily was in the cockpit with him. Simply put- they lied.
Look again. You'll see various species of Borg. Including Cardassian, Klingon, Bajoran, Bolian and some unnknown races. They just aren't easy to recognize with all that junk on them and gray skin color. I would wonder about non humanoids though. Never saw a Ferengi Borg either...
MooCriket
Master Member
In TNG, this was absolutely true, but on Voyager and the First Contact film you can spot some alien Borg, including Klingons.
My guess is that originally this had everything to do with budget constraints.
Oops, just read DG's post. Beat me to it.
Jannix Quinn
Sr Member
Tribble of Borg is in Star Trek Online.
SmilingOtter
Master Member
It could be that most of the Borg are humanoid because most sentient species tend to be humanoid. (Which is because the actors portraying them are humanoid.) Since drones seem to be more or less interchangeable within a ship, it would probably be easier to build ships with controls and alcoves designed for one species in particular.
So maybe there are all Gorn Borg ships, all Tholian Borg ships... that we just haven't seen.
So maybe there are all Gorn Borg ships, all Tholian Borg ships... that we just haven't seen.
JBReplicas
Sr Member
Ah yes the Borg Queen, I loved Picards line 'yes I remember you, you were there the whole time' err no she wasn't lol, and they never did explain away the whole Descent 'issue' whereby the borg were all left as individuals and then brainwashed by Lore, where was the queen then? huh? Great movie though, lots of things blowing up
darthgordon
Sr Member
Funny... there was only one thing about First Contact that bugged me- The Defiant.
I understand why it would be at the battle. It was designed to fight the Borg in the first place... and was a convenient way for the writers to get Worf back on the Enterprise. However, why was it commanded by Worf and why was it manned with a bunch of people we've never seen before? In such a critical battle, shouldn't it be manned by the people that were most familiar with it? Wouldn't Sisko, a man that not only fought at Wolf 359 but lost his wife in that battle want to be there?
I understand why it would be at the battle. It was designed to fight the Borg in the first place... and was a convenient way for the writers to get Worf back on the Enterprise. However, why was it commanded by Worf and why was it manned with a bunch of people we've never seen before? In such a critical battle, shouldn't it be manned by the people that were most familiar with it? Wouldn't Sisko, a man that not only fought at Wolf 359 but lost his wife in that battle want to be there?
That was just that one group of Borg that Lore had isolated.
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