Star Trek: First Contact questions

Discussion in 'Entertainment and Movie Talk' started by DavidS, Jan 22, 2012.

  1. DavidS

    DavidS Sr Member

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    First off, Ill say that First Contact is , without a doubt, my favorite Next Gen movie.
    That being said, i rewatched it last night after not seeing it for sometime.
    Ive been rewatching all of the Borg related episodes of TNG and its neat to see the theme and consistencies (as well as blatant inconsistencies) of the "Borg saga" thats woven through out all of the Star Trek shows...

    that being said... there are some major WTF moments in First Contact. Lets begin:

    -"The Borg sphere is emiting a "whocares"-ian radiation/partical beam!" and Picard says "TIME TRAVEL!"
    ..........ok so.... like.... if EVERYONE in the 24th Cen. knows that a "whocares"ian Radiation/Partical beam can cause time travel, why isnt it more prevalant? why isnt EVERYONE time traveling?

    -next, the borg on the sphere obviously chose the DATE they traveled back to ON PURPOSE...."To STOP First Contact!" says picard....
    ..........Ok, so....like.... if the Borg are these masters of Time travel.... why not travel back ......like..... THOUSANDS of years ago and just assimilate humanity when we are cave men? and NO dont say "because they wanted the earth to be MORE populated thus More people=more borg..." That theory doesnt work because just as soon as they arrived Riker starts quoting his high school history book talking about "600 MILLION Dead!" after the third world war.....

    -Ok.... so then all of the drama and action of the movie itself takes place..... then at the end after the vulcans arrive, Picard says "I think its time we make a discrete exit". Then all of our heros beam back to the cleaned up Enterprise (* they cleaned it up fast! who did that considering over half the crew was assimilated?), anyway..... so then Picard says "Data recreate the "whocares"ian radiation/partical beam like the Borg did at the begining of the movie so we can get back to the EXACT moment in time that we left!"..... Data says "No prob J.L.!" and POOF! The Enterprise is gone to, what we assume is exactly where they left off even though they never mention it again in any other movies?


    The issue here is that reocurring problem in Sci Fi....That time travel always works the same! I mean there are SOOOO many things that they messed with and changed "in the past" that we are just to assume they didnt affect history? For instance: sure Zephram Cocrane piloted the firs t warp ship, but dont you think the history books also mentioned who his two co-pilots where? I mean Neil Armstrong was the first man on the moon right? but who was the second? Will Riker?

    I know they're no "answers" to any of these questions other than "its just a movie" but its fun to think about......
     
  2. cayman shen

    cayman shen Master Member

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    I'd say a lot of your issues are problems for any time travel story. If you start picking at it, it doesn't make sense. I just watched an episode of Voyager (from season 5, Timeless?) where Janeway basically told Harry "just try not to think of it."
     
  3. Kerr Avon

    Kerr Avon Master Member

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    Answer: Bad writing.
     
  4. Monster Dave

    Monster Dave Sr Member

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    It's a moooooooooooovie.

    Enjoy it - don't analyse it.
     
  5. phase pistol

    phase pistol Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    The real answer is: even the best of the TNG movies is still a piece of crap. :lol

    If you want a Trek movie where time travel DOES screw things up, there's always Abrams Trek 09. :rolleyes

    K
     
  6. PHArchivist

    PHArchivist Master Member

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    To quote a character from our beloved TV past - "Exact-a-mundo...!"
    Time travel was never a sensible science fiction device.

    It is a story-telling device, and a crutch, at that...


    And KA-RISTE does Star Trek over do it...

    ST:IV
    First Contact
    Yesterday's Enterprise
    Generations
    Trek 9

    And on and on...
     
  7. Wes R

    Wes R Legendary Member

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    Don't forget the DS9 episode where they went onto the original ship but replaced the model with that horrid CGI thing.
     
  8. SSgt Burton

    SSgt Burton Sr Member

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    Well if you'd like nearly all of them starting with TOS...

    -The Naked Time
    -Tomorrow is Yesterday
    -City on the Edge of Forever (a good one)
    -Assignment Earth
    -All Our Yesterdays

    -Yesteryear (TAS)

    -Star Trek: IV

    -We Will Always Have Paris (TNG)
    -Time Squared
    -Yesterday's Enterprise (one of the better ones)
    -A Matter of Time
    -Cause and Effect
    -Time's Arrow
    -Tapestry
    -Firstborn (Worf's adult son travels from the future to the present)
    -All Good Things (Another good one)

    -Star Trek: Generations

    -Past Tense (DS9)
    -Visionary
    -The Visitor
    -Little Green Men
    -Trials and Tribble-ations
    -Time's Orphan

    -Star Trek First Contact

    -Parallax (Voyager)
    -Time and Again
    -Eye of the Needle
    -Future's End
    -Before and After
    -Year of Hell (Timeline is deliberately altered- big "reset" of events at the end)
    -Timeless
    -Relativity
    -Shattered
    -Endgame

    -Star Trek '09

    (I'd include the episodes from Enterprise... but why bother? :lol)


    No... Time Travel as a plot device hasn't been overdone at all in Trek. [​IMG] :lol


    Kevin
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2012
  9. Wes R

    Wes R Legendary Member

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    I have to say that Assignment Earth was a good one as I loved the Gary Seven character and let's face it Terry Garr helped alot lol
     
  10. SVTStingRay

    SVTStingRay Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    the problem with including star trek 11 (abrams) is it is not fixed at the end, the timeline change is permanent (sort of).
     
  11. phase pistol

    phase pistol Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Actually, to set a few records straight:

    - time travel per se is not the problem.. it's the hackneyed clich├ęd handling of it in many Trek stories which is disappointing.

    - that said, some of Trek's finest episodes are time travel stories:

    TOS' "City on the Edge of Forever," which presents Kirk with a moral choice - save the woman he loves or let her die and preserve history;

    TNG's "Yesterday's Enterprise", which presents Picard with a moral choice: let the Enterprise C from the past stay in the present and help with the war against the Klingons, or encourage them to return to the past, face certain death, but have the chance to undo a horrific sequence of events and perhaps prevent a dystopian future from happening at all.

    TNG's series-ender "All Good Things" is a rollicking adventure that shows us an unstuck-in-time Picard (courtesy Q) coming to terms with events that he MAY cause in the future, traveling backwards in time to prevent life on Earth from ever having happened in the first place! (this is a mindbender, and in retrospect is a bit hard to swallow, but boy is it ever high concept! TNG goes out with a bang with this episode, and then follows it months later with the lame "Star Trek Generations"... :rolleyes)

    - the Enterprise seen in DS9 "Trials and Tribbleations" is not CG, but rather a half-scale (5.5 foot long) filming miniature built by Greg Jein.

    k
     
  12. Wes R

    Wes R Legendary Member

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    Wow I could have sworn that Enterprise was CG lol. It just didn't look right but it might have been how they shot it. I'm surprised they didn't just use original footage from Trouble with Tribbles instead of making a new model.
     
  13. micdavis

    micdavis Master Member

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    Time travel is only a problem if you fanboy nitpick it to death. That's where the problem lies.

    Go write a prefect time travel story then come back and lecture us about bad writing.
     
  14. phase pistol

    phase pistol Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Well they were handed the chance so why not... :lol

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Kerr Avon

    Kerr Avon Master Member

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    JMS did it right with "Babylon Squared" and "War without End" The Time Travel had already occurred, the station had already been stolen and the events unfolded as they had to, all due to a well thought out plan that was years in the making instead of a slapped together story that then left so many other problems in place that it became ridiculous and cliche.
     
  16. phase pistol

    phase pistol Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Getting back to First Contact though, that mess has lots of other problems other than time travel. :lol

    For one, why are all the characters acting OUT of character. This is a common problem with the TNG movies. It's as though the producers of these things said, "giving people the characters they know and love is NOT good enough! For these movies we have to give them things they HAVEN'T seen! Like, Picard with a rifle! Picard in a bow tie! Picard having a hissy fit and breaking all his "little ships"!" :rolleyes

    And don't get me started on how come the Borg collective suddenly has a "queen." :unsure

    k
     
  17. micdavis

    micdavis Master Member

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    You really have no idea what it takes to write a weekly TV show.

    It's all so easy, just write a better episode. So easy to type.

    I challenge anyone to write just a single Trek episode, let's all see your abilities to do what so many of you complain about.
     
  18. Kerr Avon

    Kerr Avon Master Member

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    You're right, I don't. However, JMS did and he set down some rules, followed them, and 100 or so episodes later had five seasons of a TV show and he did time travel right. So it can be done, which you challenged couldn't be. So I already proved you wrong and can move on now. :)
     
  19. micdavis

    micdavis Master Member

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    What rules did JMS set down? Where did you find these rules?
     
  20. BlobVanDam

    BlobVanDam Sr Member

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    Time travel and interdimensional travel has always seemed too easy in Trek. This isn't just a First Contact problem. They made it look every bit as easy in The Voyage Home, and they didn't even skip over it like in FC and hope you'd not think about it. And hey, at least it's not as plothole ridden as the Nexus in Generations. :lol
    And they seemed to time travel in TOS quite often too without too much trouble too.

    I tend to just accept the time travel method as a contrivance to tell a cool time travel story. And I do love time travel plots.
     
  21. judgedredd

    judgedredd Sr Member

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    All the Borg had to do was send more than one cube star fleet was pretty much wiped out with just one,so the Borg were obviously not that concerned.
     
  22. DavidS

    DavidS Sr Member

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    wasnt there a TOS episode where they started off in the past? with a voice over saying "using the breakaway speed trick around the sun...."
    as if they just travel to the past all the time
     
  23. DavidS

    DavidS Sr Member

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    good point............
    i mean that battle looked like another Wolf 359 all over again...
     
  24. micdavis

    micdavis Master Member

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    That's the opening of Assignment:Earth.
     
  25. Jet Beetle

    Jet Beetle Sr Member Gone but not forgotten.

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    Two words my friend -- Doctor Who. He messes with everything and every now and then there's an after effect.

    Thinking about it - Doctor Who only uses time travel as a story telling device, a few moments at the beginning and end to get where they're going and that's about it, proving your second point.

    Time travel has just been abused over the years. Bad writers and producers who usually are looking for something to stuff into a package that's already pre-sold. JJ Trek is a perfect example.

    About First Contact - I can't stand any Trek after TOS, but First Contact is the best they ever offered (I'll toss a few episodes of Enterprise in as well). Picard had some connection with the Borg - almost like he was still part of the hive - so he knew they were going back in time. And the Borg wouldn't dare go back and take us on as cavemen- those savages would have beat the crap out of them.
     
  26. Jeyl

    Jeyl Master Member

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    My biggest gripe about First Contact isn't so much the time travel nonsense, Picard being an obsessed revenge driven maniac or that Zephram Cocrane was some mumbling idiot. My biggest gripe that First Contact introduced that ruined one of the most unique elements that the TNG era introduced was...

    THE BORG QUEEN

    I LOATH the concept of the Borg Queen. It gives the Borg this tangible, single entity villain that our heroes can confront, deceive and defeat to save the day. The writers tried to keep the "collective" idea in there, but it's never portrayed as such since she still needs to give orders to her borg drones both vocally and physically. And seducing Data? :sick

    Imagine if in "John Carpenter's The Thing" that the creature actually talked to the characters, or if there was one individual Thing that if killed, every other Thing dies. That would ruin a lot of what made the Thing so frightening that the Borg used to have during it's TNG era. They were a pure collective working to achieve a goal of total assimilation of all species. Not because they wanted power or knowledge, but because they believed they were doing everyone a favor. The capture and assimilation of Picard was one of those instances where they showed the Federation that if they could get Picard, Captain of the flagship of the Federation, they were going to get you. Resistance really was futile.

    Now, I will admit that Alice Kridge did an amazing job portraying the Borg Queen and the make up work was second to none. So hats off to her and the make up department.
     
  27. PHArchivist

    PHArchivist Master Member

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    Ouch - that is a boatload...!

     
  28. Apollo

    Apollo Legendary Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Actually Bab-5 did not pan out like Uncle Joe wanted as they did not think they were going to get a 5th year.

    He did manage to salvage it in the end but not the way he intended it to be.


     
  29. Kerr Avon

    Kerr Avon Master Member

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    For the most part, it did. Everything that happened in Season 4 was a mix of what was planned for the original Season 4 and 5, just compressed into one season. I personally think the heaviness of the arc served Season 4 very well ultimately with any fluff removed.

    What do you expect from TNT though, they screwed the pooch so many ways when it came to B5 and Crusade. They're the same people who wanted a Easter special to have Jesus Christ flying through the air throwing fireballs and lightning to liven it up before a producer took his script elsewhere in disgust.
     
  30. Solo4114

    Solo4114 Master Member

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    One thing worth noting in terms of the particularly well-structured B5 is that the show had the same main writer (JMS himself) who also was the show creator for one of the longest runs in TV history, as I recall.

    My point here is that for such a long-form narrative, it's my understanding that it is EXTREMELY unusual to have a single person as the visionary for that show for the vast majority of the series. Apparently he wrote 92 of the 110 episodes, plus all five of the movies and the pilot. That's an unheard-of amount of control, and I suspect it allowed him to really keep the show pretty well structured. Apparently he also built in "trap doors" for characters so that if, at any time, a character needed to bow out (such as Andrea Thompson's abrupt departure), he could write them out quickly and painlessly. That said, he also had a remarkably stable cast who didn't have any accidents, pregnancies, "I'm sick of this crap" moments, etc.

    In essence, B5 was one of the most stable, centrally controlled and created shows in the sci-fi genre, at least based on my understanding of how a lot of shows operate. So, while it stands as an example of what can be achieved in terms of a clearly structured, followed-through story, I think the approach to production behind it and the freedom given to JMS to actually create his show is pretty unusual.


    Now, as we've seen elsewhere, being able to make "your" story without interference isn't always everyone's cup of tea, but certainly in TV world, it's extremely unusual and therefore admittedly a bit unfair to compare other shows to B5.
     
  31. Vermithrax 4

    Vermithrax 4 Well-Known Member

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    My burning question is, if the Borg have assimilated thousands of races across the galaxy then why were the only Borg we ever saw...human??? I mean, where were the Gorn Borg or the Tholian Borg or the Horta Borg?
     
  32. SmilingOtter

    SmilingOtter Master Member

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  33. Jet Beetle

    Jet Beetle Sr Member Gone but not forgotten.

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  34. darthgordon

    darthgordon Sr Member

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    As seen even TOS, time travel is possible and was even done to study the past. However, the dangers of time travel are pretty well known. The Federation actually has a Department of Temporal Investigations in case time travel does happen. There is a Temporal Prime Directive about changing the past or giving people in the past information about the future.

    Why choose any particular date? Earth was still an easy target... whether it was 1 million B.C. or 2063. I think part of the idea is that the Borg assimilate cultures taking qualities, technology and memories of an entire species. I think they want a little more substance and acheivements than making fire.

    I'm not sure what the question is here... but we have no idea how long they were above Earth in the past either. They probably studied the sensor information they gathered from the Borg vortex and worked out away to recreate it off screen. I'm sure they go to the bathroom too... we just don't see it.


    This is during the second dark ages of humanity. Earth is a mess, communication is not what is today... the world has just become a much bigger place again. This was not a government operation where everything was recorded and documented. Zephram Cocrane and Lily were both in on the fact that the timeline had been altered. History probably records that Lily was in the cockpit with him. Simply put- they lied.

    Look again. You'll see various species of Borg. Including Cardassian, Klingon, Bajoran, Bolian and some unnknown races. They just aren't easy to recognize with all that junk on them and gray skin color. I would wonder about non humanoids though. Never saw a Ferengi Borg either...
     
  35. MooCriket

    MooCriket Master Member

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    In TNG, this was absolutely true, but on Voyager and the First Contact film you can spot some alien Borg, including Klingons.

    My guess is that originally this had everything to do with budget constraints.

    Oops, just read DG's post. Beat me to it.
     
  36. Jannix Quinn

    Jannix Quinn Sr Member

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    [​IMG]

    Tribble of Borg is in Star Trek Online.
     
  37. SmilingOtter

    SmilingOtter Master Member

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    It could be that most of the Borg are humanoid because most sentient species tend to be humanoid. (Which is because the actors portraying them are humanoid.) Since drones seem to be more or less interchangeable within a ship, it would probably be easier to build ships with controls and alcoves designed for one species in particular.

    So maybe there are all Gorn Borg ships, all Tholian Borg ships... that we just haven't seen.
     
  38. JBReplicas

    JBReplicas Sr Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    Ah yes the Borg Queen, I loved Picards line 'yes I remember you, you were there the whole time' err no she wasn't lol, and they never did explain away the whole Descent 'issue' whereby the borg were all left as individuals and then brainwashed by Lore, where was the queen then? huh? Great movie though, lots of things blowing up
     
  39. darthgordon

    darthgordon Sr Member

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    Funny... there was only one thing about First Contact that bugged me- The Defiant.

    I understand why it would be at the battle. It was designed to fight the Borg in the first place... and was a convenient way for the writers to get Worf back on the Enterprise. However, why was it commanded by Worf and why was it manned with a bunch of people we've never seen before? In such a critical battle, shouldn't it be manned by the people that were most familiar with it? Wouldn't Sisko, a man that not only fought at Wolf 359 but lost his wife in that battle want to be there?
     
  40. Treadwell

    Treadwell Master Member RPF PREMIUM MEMBER

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    That was just that one group of Borg that Lore had isolated.
     
  41. Jeyl

    Jeyl Master Member

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    Well, I can tell you why the Borg keep going after Earth and not anyone else. Earth... sound familiar? It's the world we live on.

    As I've mentioned in various Trek09 threads, I'm tired of Earth being the center of the universe in Star Trek. Of all the 11 movies that have even released, Earth is the planet that is the target of a destructive force that must be saved no matter the circumstances in FIVE movies. If Earth goes, the whole entire galaxy will cease to be.

    Now, I can understand how that would be an awesome thing to jump on if you wanted to raise the stakes in Star Trek, but after doing it so many times, one has to wonder why nobody in Star Trek ever thought of creating a back up plan incase Earth was suddenly destroyed. This is after all the "United Federation of PLANETS". Earth doesn't need to be the center of it, nor should it be considering we weren't the first ones to venture into space with warp technology. Cripes, one of our mandates is to never share warp technology with any race no matter how intelligent, well meaning or responsible they are. After all, humans got warp technology thanks to a crazy old drunk working in a tent in Montana just for fame, money and sex. Surely we represent the best species worthy of traveling the stars and thus have the right to judge other species no matter the circumstances!

    But another reason why I hate Earth centered Star Trek stories so much is this.

    "To seek our new life and new civilizations. To boldly go where no one has gone before."

    And nothing says boldly going like always coming back and saving the place that has nothing to do with that statement.

    And if I may take a jab at Trek09. How many science fiction stories have an Earth? I can imagine a lot of them. How many have a planet Vulcan that has an alien race with pointed ears, green blood, a long life span and view things in a completely logical sense? One. So of all the things we should destroy, let's destroy the one that actually has significance to the universe it inhabits. I'm sure a lot of future Star Trek writers are sending love letters to Bob and Alex for not destroying Earth so that they can write another "Earth is in danger!" story line again if they run out of ideas.

    Johner: Earth man, what a @$%& hole.

    Best "thing" in that whole dang movie.
     
  42. SSgt Burton

    SSgt Burton Sr Member

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    How many stories have a planet called Alderaan?


    Oh...



    Kevin
     
  43. Jeyl

    Jeyl Master Member

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    I'll give Star Wars one thing. It doesn't have Earth.
     
  44. micdavis

    micdavis Master Member

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    Please demonstrate where in any of those five movies they indicate that at all.

    And if you remove the pollitcal correctness of the 80's it's:

    "Where no MAN had gone before."

    If you really want to hang onto "continuity" at all.
     
  45. Jeyl

    Jeyl Master Member

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    Because it's Earth and just Earth. Time and time again, If Earth is in trouble, the crew will go through great lengths to save it, including time travel. If Vulcan gets DESTROYED, the crew simply shrug it off because hey, they saved Earth. That's what's important, right?
     
  46. micdavis

    micdavis Master Member

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    So in fact, it isn't true at all, what you're going on about.

    Star Trek 1 - V'ger, yes threatens Earth, but really everything else was just in the way.

    Star Trek 2 - Nothng to do with Earth

    Star Trek 3 - More nothing about Earth

    Star Trek 4 - The probe yes headed for Earth, also no real mention that, if the Earth goes it's the End of the Galaxy. In FACT, the President sends a message saying to stay away.

    Star Trek 5 - Yep, still no Earth.

    Star Trek 6 - Where is the pesky Earth.

    Star Trek 7 - (Generations), Nexus, still no Earth.

    Star Trek 8 - First Contact. We'll there is it, but in the past. SO that couldn't effect the rest of the Fedration too much.

    Star Trek 9 - Inssurection Bye Bye Earth, not in this one.

    Star Trek 10 - Nemesis , Sorry they never get there.

    Star Trek 11 - Abrams- Starts on Earth but they leave. And they sent everything they had, to Vulcan to save it. Did you watch the movie at all?

    So the FACTS are only three involve Earth at all and those make ZERO indication that somehow the galaxy is doomed.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2012
  47. 0neiros

    0neiros Master Member

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    Thus endeth the lesson.
     
  48. Jeyl

    Jeyl Master Member

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    Did I watch the movie? Yeah. Vulcan gets destroyed, but Earth is saved. And despite the fact that they leave Earth, they do come back to it in order to save it from Nero. By the movie's end, nobody seems to give a crap about Vulcan being gone at the end. Everyone is so full of glee even Prime Spock can barely contain himself.

    And I don't doubt that you watched Nemesis, but did you miss these lines?

    Picard: He's going after Earth.
    Riker: Destroy Earth, cripple the federation.
    Shinzon: Kill everything on that ship, than set a course for Earth.

    Sounds like an "Earth is in Danger!" plot to me. And of all the movies, it's the one that makes the least amount of sense. Why would Shinzon, a human created by Romulans, enslaved by Romulans, left to die by Romulans, want to destroy Earth... for the Romulans?

    If you ever watched the Enterprise episode Twilight, they practically spell it out for you how the galaxy would be crippled without it.

    All I'm saying is, I don't care about Earth in Star Trek. I have plenty of other scifi stories that involve saving the planet from some alien force and I feel Star Trek shouldn't be one of them. And here's the fun part. TOS never had an episode where they had to save their present day Earth from any alien threat. In fact, the only time that TOS Earth was ever shown was in an illusion. TOS Present Day Earth had little to do with Star Trek.

    And while you stand by your stance that it was never mentioned that the end of Earth will be the end of the galaxy, I still stand by it because apparently, no one involved in making Star Trek wants a Star Trek without it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2012
  49. DuneMuadDib

    DuneMuadDib Sr Member

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    Earth was a founding member of the Federation about 100 years after the past stuff in FC. No Earth means no Federation, which would have galactic consequences.

    Not that it's right, but since the viewers of the film are all from Earth, and the majority of the on-screen Enterprise crews are from Earth it makes sense that Earth being in danger will mean more to the viewing audience than some random bumpy forehead planet.

    Also, Earth is the capital planet of the Federation. Where are you going to attack if you want to cripple an interplanetary government? A member world that has limited military value at best, or the capital where you can take out a significant portion of the command structure, academy, and nearby ship manufacturing?
     
  50. Jeyl

    Jeyl Master Member

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    Like I said, both sides are incredibly stupid when it comes to situations like this. Since a lot of efforts in destroying Earth always seem to fail, trying to take control of the other worlds isn't too much of a bad idea. You gain that world's resources and have a base in the heart of the Federation.... Now that I think about it, there was one group that did that very strategy and it proved to be very effective. The Dominion!

    The Federation? Sure it's nice to have Earth be the center seat, but to have Earth be threatened on numerous occasions and no one thinks about preparing for it's possible destruction is just plain silly. Take a look at Generations. The ONLY SHIP that was even in Earth's solar system was the Enterprise B. A ship that was incomplete, understaffed and not even capable of using it's own weapons. Two alien menaces that go after Earth directly, and they're just fine having no capable ships there at all from time to time.

    And Trek09 has another example on both sides being incredibly dumb. You have Nero drilling into the Earth through the water (Because water will never go into the hole, right?), and Earth doing nothing about it. It's one thing to say that Nero had the codes to Earth's defenses, but is the system that absolute where if you have the codes than you're free to do whatever the heck you want? No on-screen identity confirmation, no follow-up procedure and absolutely no countermeasure to the possibility that the enemy might be using the codes? Last I saw, the Federation knows what the Narada looks like, and it took it's sweet time in getting the drill into position so comms would have been working.
     

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