Rebels Freddie Prinze Jr. Star Wars rant

[Captain Dunsel]

I will say this....I probably had my best grasp on “Star Wars” when I was kid. The motivations and characters were simple. Luke, Han, etc were “good”. Darth Vader, the Emperor, Stormtroopers, etc. were “bad”. That told me all I needed to know about them and it was perfect. My friends and I were in 100% agreement on who these characters were and their places in the fantasy.

Where things have gone sideways is, now we are all adults and are applying “advanced rules and motivations” to these characters and that does not always work in the galaxy that they occupy.

So I do think a lot of—but certainly not all of—the toxicity in fandom, that was never there before, has grown-out of a fan base that has grown-up.

That’s my opinion, anyway.

 

[Cephus]

Now the truely pathetic that I rank Prinze in is well pathetic. There is no need to be to mean, rude, sexist and send death threats even just for trolling over what a fictional movie? There is nothing that warrants that kind of behavior. What is it about Star Wars that provokes this? I would have sold the franchise and washed my hands of it if I were George Lucas. I can't blame him for it. Star Wars is where it's at because that portion of the fan base and it's toxicity. I know I hate Ep 1 and 2 but after TLJ I would rather have George back making his visions come to life. At least the PT is politically free of BS and has a clear start and end with the story even if the execution is poor.

Every franchise these days does. Star Trek. Doctor Who. James Bond. Every damn one of them. You can't find a successful franchise without someone stuffing their political bias into it. It's just sad.

 

[Psab keel]

I think it has to do with what seems to be the total embrace of moral ambiguity in the culture of entertainment. While there is nothing inherently wrong with that, I find it bucks against everything Star Wars was originally rebelling against when it was first released in 1977.

 

[Joek3rr]

There was what? 18 months or so between ESB and ROTJ. There's been maybe 10 days total between the start of TFA and the end of TLJ....

It's not been established. I've heard 6 months+ The only concrete thing we know is, EBS takes place in 3 ABY, and ROTJ, 4 ABY

 

[Joek3rr]

While I agree with you and yes it is just a movie, it's hard to sit back idly when you are accused of being sexist for not liking a fictional character. Which is exactly what he's doing. This is the level of absurdity we are dealing with. Is this the end of the world? Not by a long shot.

If his attitude is the general consensus of those up top though, eventually Star Wars will die off because people will stop watching. Though not much more can really be said and this isn't anything new sadly. This thread should really be combined with Joek3rrs Let's talk all things Star Wars.

Can you not see the problem? Let's say, for the sake of argument. That Rey is a really well-written protagonist. But that's not going to change what many are complaining about. Many fans complaint about her is they say she's a "Mary Sue". Even though time and again, it is shown that Rey hasn't done anything, that some other character hasn't already done. And she isn't breaking any lore. But they complain incessantly about her Force powers and lightsaber skills, flying the Falcon, etc, etc, etc yet all the other characters get a pass. So what's happening? "Jar Jar effect"? Fans don't really know their lore? Or there's a bit of sexism going on. Even if she was/is a poorly written character, she still ain't breaking lore.

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

Well look at it this way. Most EU fans love Mara Jade, but they don't like Rey. Why is that? Mara Jade was well written and had a believable story.

 

[Psab keel]

There are sexists out there, just like there are racists and homophobes. Sadly that's life. Thats not what this is about.

I'm critical of the writing. Always have been. Rey is a poorly written character. She may have accomplished the same things as Luke but she didn't earn them the way he did by virtue of the script. It's not my fault if people can't see the difference between a sexist and someone with critical thinking skills who objects to the way a story is written and the fact that this is even an "issue" is pathetic.

Freddy just wants to silence all criticism by labeling people because it's easier than having an actual discourse.

This is why Star Wars is dying. This "Epic Rant" nonsense mentality is turning fans away left and right because it just dismisses any reasonable thought or question and treats it as heresy. It's elitism because he works for Lucasfilm and thinks he knows better than everyone else. He doesn't. He's just a guy with an opinion.

Star Wars is a buffet. No one has to like every dish on the menu to be a fan and if that's how you view this, that everyone has to be all or nothing no matter how stupid, then YOU are part of the problem.

No one has the right to dictate to me or anyone else how to be a fan of something. No one. Just like I would never tell someone to stop being a fan because they don't like Star Wars the way I do. That's insanity.

 

[jhazard]

Ben is 23 when he begins his training. He was born in 5 ABY, goes to the temple in 28 ABY, events of TFA take place in 34 ABY. That means, max, he's had 6 years of lightsaber experience. Assuming that he built his saber immediately. And that he continued to train after he went to Snoke.

Rey is born in 15 ABY. Which makes her 19 during TFA. She's left on Jakku around 5 or 6. She moves into her AT-AT home when she's 10. So I'd say at minimum your looking at 5 to 6 years that's she's had to hone her self defense skills, in order to stay alive. So Rey's got what's needed to use a lightsaber. Remember we've seen other characters like Pre Vizsla and Finn adapt their melee fighting style to use a lightsaber. And they aren't even Force sensitive. And against a physically and emotionally wounded Ben, with the Force as her ally, it's not unbelievable.

Side note, Ben and Rey still have more melee fighting experience then Luke ever did. I'm curious to see if the new comics will show how Luke suddenly become an expert swordsman between ESB and ROTJ.

Simply, we do not know what the Force has planned. The Force moves in mysterious ways. Plus even though the Force has control. Individuals still have a free will.

Rey occasionally defending herself from desert thugs is not the same as practical training using the force, and being trained in whatever martial form of lightsaber combat Kylo underwent for years. Being trained in a weapon specific system martial art is a tremendous advantage.

Not really seeing any similarity between her use of the staff and her uncoordinated use of the saber against Kylo either, other than the sort of awkward thrusting she engages in. Her actual handling of the saber does seem pretty accurate - it's just the outcome of the engagement that's weird.

As person who engages regularly in sparring (with lightsabers!) and trains, practices and studies to improve - I can tell you staff techniques don't necessarily directly transfer to sword (okay - some do - but that's a bigger technical discussion) yes, there are similar techniques, but we're talking about martial systems handed down for hundreds of years, taught from treatises; not street smart weapon scrapping. It's not something you'd pick up "on the fly". (But then, that's Rey's odd strength I suppose?)

Finn, trained as he may be, (I think the novelization even lauded his ability in combat?) at least was more realistically portrayed: he got his arse handed to him nearly every time in TFA, he displayed zero proficiency with the saber.

After recently hearing about just how well trained the knights of Ren actually are, it further reinforces how lopsided the odds really were, given that Kylo was their leader. He must be an excellent swordsman.

Pre Visla was a Mandalorian, a warrior culture. It's much less a reach, who knows what martial training they engage in, but they do engage in it. Rey did not.

 

[Psab keel]

Rey sucks. This trilogy sucks and I can't wait for it to be over already. Moreover I can't wait for people like Freddy to shut their mouths and stop with this labeling nonsense.

 

[Joek3rr]

Rey occasionally defending herself from desert thugs is not the same as practical training using the force, and being trained in whatever martial form of lightsaber combat Kylo underwent for years. Being trained in a weapon specific system martial art is a tremendous advantage.

Not really seeing any similarity between her use of the staff and her uncoordinated use of the saber against Kylo either, other than the sort of awkward thrusting she engages in. Her actual handling of the saber does seem pretty accurate - it's just the outcome of the engagement that's weird.

As person who engages regularly in sparring (with lightsabers!) and trains, practices and studies to improve - I can tell you staff techniques don't necessarily directly transfer to sword (okay - some do - but that's a bigger technical discussion) yes, there are similar techniques, but we're talking about martial systems handed down for hundreds of years, taught from treatises; not street smart weapon scrapping. It's not something you'd pick up "on the fly". (But then, that's Rey's odd strength I suppose?)

Finn, trained as he may be, (I think the novelization even lauded his ability in combat?) at least was more realistically portrayed: he got his arse handed to him nearly every time in TFA, he displayed zero proficiency with the saber.

After recently hearing about just how well trained the knights of Ren actually are, it further reinforces how lopsided the odds really were, given that Kylo was their leader. He must be an excellent swordsman.

Pre Visla was a Mandalorian, a warrior culture. It's much less a reach, who knows what martial training they engage in, but they do engage in it. Rey did not.

I could be wrong. But I don't think she was just defending herself occasionally. Seeing how she practices with her staff on Ach-to. Not to mention she's literally described as a warrior in the Starwars.com databank. "Rey grew up on Jakku, eking out a life as a scavenger and hoping that one day whoever had left her on the barren desert world would return. She learned how to survive, becoming a gifted mechanic, pilot and warrior." I'd say she's meant to be pretty skilled with that thing.

 

[jhazard]

I could be wrong. But I don't think she was just defending herself occasionally. Seeing how she practices with her staff on Ach-to. Not to mention she's literally described as a warrior in the Starwars.com databank. "Rey grew up on Jakku, eking out a life as a scavenger and hoping that one day whoever had left her on the barren desert world would return. She learned how to survive, becoming a gifted mechanic, pilot and warrior." I'd say she's meant to be pretty skilled with that thing.

Still, self taught. Whereas Kylo received martial training, and is leader of knights of Ren, who according to wookiepedia, had fighting skills and martial prowess without equal.

I can appreciate street smarts and adapting to scrapping with common thugs, but it's no match for someone who is trained in weapons combat.

Lol, fwiw I actually like Rey's presence, her character... But things like that make it difficult to get on board.

 

[Joek3rr]

Rey sucks. This trilogy sucks and I can't wait for it to be over already. Moreover I can't wait for people like Freddy to shut their mouths and stop with this labeling nonsense.

Don't let the labeling get to you. Are you sexist? Heck no! I wouldn't call anyone here that, especially you! But sadly there are some out there in the fandom that I wonder about. Freddie's comments are directed towards them, not me, not you. Could he have been more tactful, you bet. Could he have skipped some colorful words. Yep. But he's not pointing fingers at you. Don't let it get you down.

 

[Bigdaddy]

FPJ is no better than the trolls that post insulting bs on celebrities social media. Defending his public rant because you share a particular view of SW would be like me defending the jackhats that harassed KMT because I dislike TLJ. He should just go back to voicing characters on his kiddie show.

 

[cboath]

I could be wrong. But I don't think she was just defending herself occasionally. Seeing how she practices with her staff on Ach-to. Not to mention she's literally described as a warrior in the Starwars.com databank. "Rey grew up on Jakku, eking out a life as a scavenger and hoping that one day whoever had left her on the barren desert world would return. She learned how to survive, becoming a gifted mechanic, pilot and warrior." I'd say she's meant to be pretty skilled with that thing.

Say the databank thing is true. It's an epic failure of the film itself that she was a gifted mechanic, pilot, and warrior, and it's never mentioned or referenced. If you have to have outside knowledge to know it, you've failed in telling your story. We see her do some mechanical stuff on the falcon, but have no explanation as to how she really knew it, at least that I can recall. I do believe she says something about know a little about piloting, but it was not being modest. The gifted pilot aspect is almost assuredly based on the film and not that she knew it prior. But if they established it in prior ancillary material, great - but it's still a fail of the movie. Then the warrior aspect. Never heard that before, and there was nothing to believe that was the case in the movie at all.

It doesn't mean they aren't true, but 99% of the viewing public doesn't read or know anything outside the movies. So, if those things are true and you don't point them out in the film before they become relevant, you've failed in telling your story. It's like telling a story to friends saying "i know this guy and we were out and this guy taps him on the shoulder and he beats the guy to a pulp!" and then having to go "oh, i problem should have told you that he has a mental condition set off by being touched, and he's a 9th degree black belt".

I don't think any of those things were actually established ahead of time and were likely retroactively written. Kind of like how next to none of the characters in star wars had names in 1977, or even 1983, but now even people on screen a half second have names and back stories.

 

[Solo4114]

People...

IT HAS BEEN ALMOST THREE GODDAMN YEARS AND THIS IS STILL THE SAME ARGUMENT.

It's time to move on.

 

[Inquisitor Peregrinus]

I don't think any of those things were actually established ahead of time and were likely retroactively written. Kind of like how next to none of the characters in star wars had names in 1977, or even 1983, but now even people on screen a half second have names and back stories.

And about one-third/two-thirds was West End Games and Decipher, respectively, as they had to fill in around the edges for playability in their games. Almost everyone whose name you know in the OT beyond the second tier (Wedge, Biggs, Porkins, Motti, Veers, etc.), everyone who was just "Rebel Tech #2" or one of the multitude of extras and stunt players who got lumped together under a single credit... Commander Praji? Decipher. Garven Dreis? Decipher. Wullf Yularen? Decipher. Ponda Baba? Decipher. Lak Sivrak? WEG. And so on like that. This was happening in the late '80s and early '90s and was only relevant to the subgroup who played those games.

But then the Star Wars Renaissance perpetuated and propagated those names along and by the time George did the PT, every character needed a name, no matter how minor or irrelevent their role. I'm not really sure where that decision came from. For over a decade, Ponda Baba was just "Walrus Man", Ree-Yees was just "Three-Eyed Yak-Face", and we were fine with that. More isn't always better. Or needed.

 

[DARTH ANIBAL]

People...

IT HAS BEEN ALMOST THREE GODDAMN YEARS AND THIS IS STILL THE SAME ARGUMENT.

It's time to move on.

 

[DARTH ANIBAL]

But then the Star Wars Renaissance perpetuated and propagated those names along and by the time George did the PT, every character needed a name, no matter how minor or irrelevent their role. I'm not really sure where that decision came from. For over a decade, Ponda Baba was just "Walrus Man", Ree-Yees was just "Three-Eyed Yak-Face", and we were fine with that. More isn't always better. Or needed.

Lookin' at you, Constable Zuvio.

 

[Joek3rr]

Lookin' at you, Constable Zuvio.

Being a fan of Embo, I was bummed about Zuvio.

 

[Joek3rr]

Say the databank thing is true. It's an epic failure of the film itself that she was a gifted mechanic, pilot, and warrior, and it's never mentioned or referenced. If you have to have outside knowledge to know it, you've failed in telling your story. We see her do some mechanical stuff on the falcon, but have no explanation as to how she really knew it, at least that I can recall. I do believe she says something about know a little about piloting, but it was not being modest. The gifted pilot aspect is almost assuredly based on the film and not that she knew it prior. But if they established it in prior ancillary material, great - but it's still a fail of the movie. Then the warrior aspect. Never heard that before, and there was nothing to believe that was the case in the movie at all.

It doesn't mean they aren't true, but 99% of the viewing public doesn't read or know anything outside the movies. So, if those things are true and you don't point them out in the film before they become relevant, you've failed in telling your story. It's like telling a story to friends saying "i know this guy and we were out and this guy taps him on the shoulder and he beats the guy to a pulp!" and then having to go "oh, i problem should have told you that he has a mental condition set off by being touched, and he's a 9th degree black belt".

I don't think any of those things were actually established ahead of time and were likely retroactively written. Kind of like how next to none of the characters in star wars had names in 1977, or even 1983, but now even people on screen a half second have names and back stories.

I'm just going to say this since I just watched TFA, everything is there. Her being pilot, mechanic etc.....it's all there, well except maybe for the gifted warrior part, it's hinted at. But that we see in TLJ when she's showing off her mad skills with her staff.