Re-inventing Lukes ANH Lightsaber- And Vaders too??!?!

[PHArchivist]

Suppose any of those old boys from Bapty are plugged into this and getting a god laugh?

(Don't get me wrong--I'm eating this stuff up!)

 

[THX1138]

Did "Bapty" put the saber props together, too?

- Jim

 

[BAlinger15]

I suspect it may have been John Stears...(mechanical effects supervisor), who's archive now resides in private collector hands....I'm sure some of you would kill to see it.

Anyone who's seen that little "teaser pic" from the eBay auctions knows what I'm talking about...

Brandon

 

[gavidoc]

Kind of late to the latest developments.

I measured the picture as well.

Didn't use Photoshop. I used.........Illustrator! Yeah! Take that! Bam baby!

I use Illustrator for all my measurements as it's easier to scale and to draw in for accurate measurements.

What did I come up with?

Bracket: .764" +/- .015" (same as 20.013mm +/- .381mm)

D-Ring: 1.074" +/ .025" (same as 27.28 +/- .635mm)

No I didn't rotate the photo any. Measured from that.

What do I think though? This entire time, I've been saying it was a 3/4" ID D-ring used. Same as Vader's and Kenobi's.

Well, I finally acutally measured the D-rings that I used for those sabres, lol and behold, they aren't 3/4" D-rings. They are .84" ID (21.35mm) stainless d-rings. What is the OD of the d-rings I use? 1.0735" or 27.27mm.

Now, considering that I measured that photo before I measured my d-rings pretty much tells me that I wasn't trying to get it to match my d-rings.

I was trying to get it to be closer to a 3/4" d-ring. Not a .84" d-ring. So, what do I think?

I think that the d-rings I use are a pretty damn good match for the ones used on the real props.

 

[gavidoc]

also I still say that the Kenobi ANH has Mylar Tape on it. Pictures proove that to me. SFProps pointed it out to me and I was against it, but he changed my views and after seeing the high res versions, I agree.

Bedtime for good ole Gav.

 

[DARTH SABER]

Gav, the pics which show the mylar tape, are they the B&W ones from the Chronicles and Mechanismo, or are they different pics?
Cuz, I just looked at my B&W pics of the OBI WAN and I can clearly make out "LEX" on the clamp...Of course the pic of the opposite side of the saber is has a black shadow over the part of the clamp which has the "GRAF" and is really hard to make out...

 

[lonepigeon]

I'm not convinced there's tape on the Kenobi ANH. There are some weird things on the clamp but they're like hairline cracks in the plating.
Maybe it's something othar than tape, but it sure doesn't look like mylar.

Anyway, that's another matter not concerning this saber.

 

[DARTH SABER]

Just getting off topic for a sec....please excuse my hosting service...Due to unknown circumstances my pics have a "post" life of about 4 or 5 hours now....

 

[THX1138]

I'd like to make a comment about Ben's "ANH" saber.

I, too, can see a few of the letter's from the word GRAFLEX on the clamp in the Chronicles picture.

An observation I have regarding the clamp:

At first glance, it could appear to have wrinkled chrome tape on it... especially on the "grenade" side of the clamp.

However, I feel it is not tape at all! I think the clamp was actually "fitted" to meet up better with the O.D. of the grenade.

The No.3 - Mk.1 Brit grenade has a slightly smaller O.D. than the I.D. of the Graflex clamp, and they may have beat on the clamp edge with a hammer so it would fit a little closer/tighter to the edge of the grenade.

- Jim

 

[E.D.C. Studios]

you know, I originally thought that the D-ring bracker was mounted slighty off center, but after a practical test, i.e. actually putting one on a flash, it would seem it may actually be on center.

Ill try and get this flash all together and post a couple of comparison pics ASAP

 

[tlrgsxr]

</SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
gavidoc wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
What did I come up with?
Bracket: .764" +/- .015" (same as 20.013mm +/- .381mm)
D-Ring: 1.074" +/ .025" (same as 27.28 +/- .635mm)
</TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>

Geez, finally! I had similar numbers 7 pages ago. But now you'll have to tolerate everyone else saying 1". Welcome to the club.

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
gavidoc wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
I think that the d-rings I use are a pretty damn good match for the ones used on the real props.
</TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>

Where did you get your d-rings?

 

[gavidoc]

Last comment on the Kenobi ANH for me.

YEah, I was right there with you guys on the no tape thing.

But SFProps pointed out to me that you can clearly see the graflex lines on the clamp in the center, but not near the transistors. They look more like indentions then defined lines. He made a comment about ripped tape. So I did a test with my tape. Heated it up ever so slightly and it deformed.

Adhered closer to the lettering and the lines. When I ripped some off (after it staying for a bit) it left a sticky residue. Picked it up after working with dirt and saw dust all day and it left some nice dark blotchy marks on the clamp. Is that what it was? really don't know. But until I see proof otherwise, I'll go with it.

I honestly don't remember where I got my d-rings at.

 

[SFPROPS]

</SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
E.D.C. Studios wrote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>
you know, I originally thought that the D-ring bracker was mounted slighty off center, but after a practical test, i.e. actually putting one on a flash, it would seem it may actually be on center.
</TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><SPAN CLASS=$row_color>

I did the same thing. If you line up one of the hardware clip and dees with the rounded edge at the inner lip of the bottom of the flash, the strap portion is fairly well on center. When you do comparison angle viewing, everything seems to match up with the photos even with the strap being one center.

As for the Kenobi saber, I believe that there's a higher resolution picture out there. I'd done a graphic overlay showing how parts of the engraving on the band all of a sudden disapeared right where there was some sort of line of demarcation, and where there was "damage" consistent with peeling mylar tape. It's as if there was mylar tape over the entire band, then it came off on the rear portion. Bad plating won't make engraving disapear, but covering it with mylar tape will. I'll try to find my photos.

While I believe that the photo above (when seen in better resolution) shows mylar tape, there's no evidence that this was on the screen used saber. It could have had all the tape removed by then, looked like the one in the photo, or have been completely covered.

I also went back through this thread and concede and appologize for my insistence that you could definitely see 7 grips on the Luke ANH in one of the photos. The dark areas I'd assumed where grips could easily be part of Luke's boot. I'm still convinced there were 7 though.

 

[DARTH SABER]

</SPAN><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>Quote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS=$row_color>you know, I originally thought that the D-ring bracker was mounted slighty off center, but after a practical test, i.e. actually putting one on a flash, it would seem it may actually be on center.
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I already converted my Graflex and I positioned the bracket in the center....Ive always thought it was in the center.
Of course I attached it with the hex head screw, so that if there are any discoveries later on the type of fastener used it will be easier to remove and alter....


Gav, I see what you mean about the tape though....What your saying is that a small section didnt come off with the rest of the tape when it was removed...Possibly leaving sticky residue and part of the tape over the letters...

 

[SFPROPS]

Gav, I see what you mean about the tape though....What your saying is that a small section didnt come off with the rest of the tape when it was removed...Possibly leaving sticky residue and part of the tape over the letters...

Yes. If you were to tape the entire clamp, then put the transisters on over that, you're going to have a harder time removing tape at that point then anywhere else as the tape is adhered beneath the bottom of the transistors themselves and is being clamped down.

I've found one of the pictures I was refering to (though this really does belong in it's own thread):

[attachmentid=1946]

The lines I drew are kind of rough and screwy, but it illustrates the point. Above the line you can see the engraving on the clamp. Below the line you can't, EXCEPT near the right transistor right above it. Even there, it looks more like you're seeing the engraved lines indented under mylar tape instead of what's actually on the surface of the clamp. Also, you're getting a different type of reflection from the area below the line I drew then above it which would seem to indicate different materials.

The edges is where I believe there's tell-tale signs of some kind of tape. I don't know how you'd be able to get those raised and indented areas by abusing a clamp, but it would be very easy (as Gavidoc has pointed out) to do by just having the tape wrinkle and bubble on the sides.

 

[DARTH SABER]

Is this worth having another thread for?? Or do you think it'll run outta gas whin a couple of posts??

 

[James Kenobi 1138]

"Kenobi ANH Saber refernces comming in...3 Marks at 2-10"

"...Stay on Topic..."

"They're comming in too fast....."

"...Stay on Topic..."

"Loosen up!...."

(X-wing blows-up while major discussion of Lukes new 7 grip Saber disapears into a discussion of Kenobi Clamp...)

 

[lonepigeon]

"Lost Tiree...Lost Hutch...lost control of this thread!"

I understand where the tape idea comes from. I just wouldn't call the high res version of that pic absolute proof.
The clamp lines on the left do go all the way under the transitor/washer. The right ones do seem to stop abruptly and yet continue like they're covered to the transistor. The "X" is all wierd and illegible, looks covered. My problem is that there a sorts of crack lines coming from under the washer. I can't see mylar doing that. The quarter circle scrap near the right washer is odd too, but I think whatever material is there could get a deep scratch in it like that.

Tape or not the top view of the saber does show the clamp itself crimped and mangled.

I think it's inconclusive and just looks bad, so I'm not doing anything about it on mine.

Luke saber, Luke saber, Luke saber....

 

[lonepigeon]

Alright semi off topic at first but read on...

I had another idea, and I hope I'm not right, but I want to throw it out there. Are we sure the ANH Vader doesn't have 7 grips? I happened to look at the Chronicles pic sitting on my desk (blown up to full size while I was converting my HK MPP). I noticed the grips don't line up quite right. I had attributed it to the grips not perfectly spaced on the original as evidenced by the large gap on the lever side photo. Then it hit me...the gap!

What if the 7 grips on Luke's are ALMOST evenly spaced? I use a paper guide I made to align my grips, not the regular clock position markings. I took the circumference of the Graflex and divided it into 6 grips, 6 spaces printed out the flat template and made a tube to go around the flash. What if the prop dept did something similar? (or another technique with similar results).
Seven grips doesn't come out too even when you try to figure the spaces right? 5.5mm according to DARTHSABER. What if they rounded off (down)? Put down one grip, then the next 5mm over. Doing that they would end up with a larger gap (8.5mm) after the last grip. A big ass gap perhaps? Exaggerate that gap with a large glare of Tunisian sunlight and Viola! the unexplained B.A.G.
So why did the Vader ANH lead me to this? See the lever side in Chronicles- the middle gap on that side is about 7mm (other side is 5mm). If you knew you'd end up with a large gap (perhaps did it before on a previous saber?) maybe when you're placing the last grip you'd center it in the available space, leaving the last two gaps an average of 6.75mm each.

So why did we only notice the gap in the movie? (and only one scene for that matter)
What if the midband was turned 180 degrees? In promo pics the gap would be in the back, turning it around to movie orientation the gap is now in the forefront. It's located just to the right of the control box (when hanging from belt) this would put it behind Luke in any front view, but in a side view (like in front of the sandcrawler) it faces the grip right at the camera (and bright sun in this case).

Now this is all theory, but I can't poke any holes in it with any photos we have so far. I am starting to think the Vader ANH had seven grips as well (both Vader ANH sabers for that matter- there are two, see previous Darth Saber thread). I do think we're OK on the Vader ESB saber, looks like they changed it to six grips when they made the grips longer.

When will it end???

 

[DARTH SABER]

Well Cris, I think we can breathe easy with the DV ANH saber...I just took my MPP out of its case and did some comparing to the chonicles pic and the postioning seemed to check out perfectly....I also scaled pics I had of my MPP and scaled the pics from the Chronicles and overlaid them they also check out perfectly...the spacing is approxomately 7.5mm to 8mm ...