Picard S2
- Thread starter Mottrex
- Start date
answer: Q did it!
As an occasional small-time filmmaker, I get that, though. How much of LA are we going to get permits for and block off at great expense when it's all a blur going by the window anyway? Plus it's fun to spot such cheats when it isn't that much of a blur.
Better than what they did in this ad, in which they went in circles around the same block of backlot facades several times!
I thought this too while watching the whole episode. Then I read online that the new actress said the same thing and was told that because Picard was coming from a timeline where he was a genocidal general, that Picard never went back to 19th c San Fran and so Times Arrow didn't happen. I still think Guinan should feel something. Maybe she does when he tells her his name. I dunno...
We got Floyd's here too! Well, actually, not anymore after covid, but there used to be a floyd's downtown.
Bloop
Sr Member
Okay, so I guess it sort of makes sense that the events of Time's Arrow didn't take place in this time line, so Guinan wouldn't know Picard. But couldn't the writer's help us out a bit so that we, the viewers aren't confused? They could've had Picard, after beaming in and realizing he was going to talk to Guinan, call back to the ship and excitedly say, "I'm going to speak to an old friend, but I don't think she will remember me - we met in a past that we need to restore" or something. It wouldn't have to be a lengthy recap of Time's Arror, just a little something to acknowledge the convoluted time travel scenario set up in TNG.
But to go further down this time-travel rabbit hole, I thought the reason they went back to this point in time is that this was the moment where "one event" changed all of future history. So wouldn't that mean that everything prior to that event would be unaltered? How could Guinan's past on earth be different if the event that changes the future hasn't happened yet? Ugh. To quote Talledega Nights, "My head's all tied up like a pretzel. I got a pretzel in my head!“
Edit: just remembered another thing that bugged me - the "15" clue that Picard and Agnes figure out (possibly another Easter egg from the TNG episode "Clues"). They jump to the conclusion that it must be referring to the time the "event" happens - already a big assumption, but whatever - Agnes says "15 hours?" to which Picard says "not specific enough," and decides it must be referring to the 15th day of the month (three days from then). So that's another big assumption, but my question is, how is it that the date of 15th is more specific than 15 hours??? 15 hours is a smaller amount of time, therefore by definition, more specific than a date three days away! If the time altering event happens on the 15th, what time does it happen? Right at the stroke of midnight? Or is it at 11:59 pm, right before the date changes over to the 16th? Or 10 am? 4:20 in the afternoon? 7:36 and 32 seconds pm, precisely?
But to go further down this time-travel rabbit hole, I thought the reason they went back to this point in time is that this was the moment where "one event" changed all of future history. So wouldn't that mean that everything prior to that event would be unaltered? How could Guinan's past on earth be different if the event that changes the future hasn't happened yet? Ugh. To quote Talledega Nights, "My head's all tied up like a pretzel. I got a pretzel in my head!“
Edit: just remembered another thing that bugged me - the "15" clue that Picard and Agnes figure out (possibly another Easter egg from the TNG episode "Clues"). They jump to the conclusion that it must be referring to the time the "event" happens - already a big assumption, but whatever - Agnes says "15 hours?" to which Picard says "not specific enough," and decides it must be referring to the 15th day of the month (three days from then). So that's another big assumption, but my question is, how is it that the date of 15th is more specific than 15 hours??? 15 hours is a smaller amount of time, therefore by definition, more specific than a date three days away! If the time altering event happens on the 15th, what time does it happen? Right at the stroke of midnight? Or is it at 11:59 pm, right before the date changes over to the 16th? Or 10 am? 4:20 in the afternoon? 7:36 and 32 seconds pm, precisely?
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Lightning
Master Member
This timeline has already had one run through. Q makes a change on the 15th and time unfolds. Then in the 2360s Confederation Picard doesn't go back in time. 35 years after that our Picard wakes up in his counterparts body and goes back to a past where no Federation time travel has ever taken place.
15 hours from when? it doesn't have a start point. It can't be from when they arrived because the queen sussed out the change details before they time traveled.
Bloop
Sr Member
Yeah, I was thinking of all the "butterfly effect" moments they obviously chose to ignore. The idea of the butterfly effect (as I understand it) is that the tiniest, most innocuous events could start a chain reaction and end up having meaningful repercussions. Yet despite Agnes's warning, everyone seems to ignore it. Bringing the phaser out and using it in public, the cop car theft, dangerous car chase, even Rios's attempt to stop ICE officers from taking other undocumented people, those all seem like they could pretty big disruptions to the original timeline. All the people's lives that were altered that day - cops that were affected by the theft, other drivers on the road, the potential undocumented people who's original lives might have been changed if Rios had stopped ICE from taking them - they could all have had meaningful changes to their lives due to the chaos caused.
And isn't Rios's communicator badge still at the clinic? I don't remember for sure, but I thought it got left behind. Doesn't seem like they care about future technology being left laying about in the past. If it's still at the clinic, Seven and Raffi should've found it, or at least be looking for it. They've only expressed concern for finding Rios. That have to at least assume that ICE took it from him and that it wouldn't be with him on that bus, but they're not looking for it at all (unless I missed something).
And isn't Rios's communicator badge still at the clinic? I don't remember for sure, but I thought it got left behind. Doesn't seem like they care about future technology being left laying about in the past. If it's still at the clinic, Seven and Raffi should've found it, or at least be looking for it. They've only expressed concern for finding Rios. That have to at least assume that ICE took it from him and that it wouldn't be with him on that bus, but they're not looking for it at all (unless I missed something).
Lightning
Master Member
It could, yes, but as we have observed over many time travel adventures, most of the changes turn out not to matter, and our heros always get lucky with what they change.
That was extremely stupid on Seven and Raffi's part. The tricorder says this was the last location, you should signal the communicator before you leave to see if it's still there.
Bloop
Sr Member
I understand that Star Trek hasn't generally had "butterfly effect" incidents, but if the theory has been proven untrue, Agnes shouldn't need to mention it. So either the writers added it just to try to add some extra tension, humor, or irony, or this is foreshadowing possible changes that may actually happen as a result of their careless interference in the time line.
I also had a thought about the communicator being left behind as a future plot device - we already saw the clinic doctor's son playing with it, maybe he'll end up using it, or his mom, which will help out Team Picard at some point.
And that's a low bar, one is for kids and one is pretty much a parody. I don't think Star Trek will ascend to the heights of the Berman era again, certainly not with the current regime in-charge.
To each their own.
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Well surely if they changed the past it would already reflect in the present...
I guess that's why Time Travel doesn't or can't work..
I thought they were supposed to be in LA in the past ?
A 20 minute speed chase does not a great episode make... Filler episodes really not needed in what is it an 8 ep run ?
I guess that's why Time Travel doesn't or can't work..
I thought they were supposed to be in LA in the past ?
A 20 minute speed chase does not a great episode make... Filler episodes really not needed in what is it an 8 ep run ?
NakedMoleRat
Legendary Member
No one’s talking about the current episode. I’m halfway through it, will finish it at lunch.
Not much new going on at this point.
Not much new going on at this point.
NakedMoleRat
Legendary Member
The Queen calls a distress in French, the officer responding is speaking Spanish and she responds in English.
Where are they exactly?
Where are they exactly?
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