Lightsaber Screws

[James Kenobi 1138]

It was only confirmed that the red button was missing. I have photos and screencaps from Hoth and Bespin that show the silver fasteners looking dark or black- the lighting has a lot to do with what color they appear.

The going theory is that the saber seen during Dagobah is the same Hero used in the film, and what we know as the SRS is the Hero rebuilt. If memory serves the Dagobah scenes were filmed last for Mark as the Yoda puppet took so long and the saber was rebuilt as it was in pretty bad shape.

But it was not a 'different' saber. There was only one Hero saber.

 

[Clutch]

Thus it is the Dagobah saber because hero or not, it is noticeably different. How about we call it a different version of the hero? Here's another cap. Not once do I see a glint of shiny rivets.

 

[Clutch]

Here's another cap that agrees with the 'rivets' not showing up, but now my question is where in the movie do we see the 'hero' with the two red buttons? I couldn't make out any clear shot of this. The only thing I can make out is the reversed linhof clamp.

Nevermind. I see the two buttons when he is on Bespin.

 

[James Kenobi 1138]

As much as I love the SRS, the theory that there was a separate, different saber used only for Dagobah is at this point a myth.

In the end, screws or rivets, whatever makes the owner happy.

 

[lonepigeon]

As much as I love the SRS, the theory that there was a separate, different saber used only for Dagobah is at this point a myth.

While it may not be a different prop the saber is different in those scenes so it has another nickname. Maybe "Dagobah style" would be more accurate and not imply a new prop. I agree though that "Dagobah" and "Ranch" should be separate styles.

It's like the E-11 variations, I'm sure Hengstlers fell off during shooting so some are true different props while others are different states of the same prop.

I would still hazard to guess there was more than one Luke ESB Hero. The prop is just too simple to make to not have a backup.
Vader had two Hero sabers in ANH.

 

[James Kenobi 1138]

I agree with you on both points.

If you're wanting a Saber that looks like the Dagobah style there are some characteristics that are exclusive to that version.

There was probably more then one Hero, I mean they did throw one on the Carbon Freeze floor multiple times to get that shot. I meant that the Saber we see on his belt and in promo pics is probably the same saber, the same Hero saber.

 

[Lightsaberman]

Wow, thank you chaps, this really is a fascinating thread!

In my experience it is extremely rare for there only to be one Hero prop. If the SBS really is the Hero, then as you said it went through quite a hefty repair, with all those additional screws added to hold things in place.

I found this photo which interested me and would value your opinion.

Clearly, the ESB lightsaber, and a picture from the same photo session that you posted earlier James Kenobi. I see the additional red button and those lovely rivets. What I find interesting is the apparent damage and missing end to one of the T track grips, which has broken off at the silver rivet.

So, stunt prop? Publicity shot prop? I think either way I would like to make this one.

I see that you already have made the lightsaber I want to James Kenobi. So I have to ask; how did you round the edges of the T Track grips? It's a feature I really like, but don't see that often. Except of cause on the PIH saber from Kurtz that proved to be new grips!

 

[Clutch]

I brought the broken grip up before. No one seemed interested.

 

[GINO]

I think those are screws, not rivets.
As far as I know, we don't have clear enough reference to know definitively.
And since we see screws on the other saber, I'm more inclined to believe they are screws on this one as well.

 

[Clutch]

I'm putting screws in mine. Should we find out later that they were indeed rivets, I can always unscrew them and pop some rivets in.

 

[Lightsaberman]

Interesting Clutch, so you spotted that too. :eek Nice one. In my opinion, that's a sign this saber had seen some action!

If I zoom in closely in Photoshop they really look like rivets, Gino. As Kenobi said and it's my opinion too, why use those small rivets on the D ring and not on the grips as well?

Mmmmmmmmmm

 

[Clutch]

Don't see a broken grip on the ranch saber do ya?

 

[DS Operative]

With any luck, we'll be able to get some better screen caps from the blu-ray due out in September. I'd love to see new higher-rez caps of the ones posted above

 

[GINO]

I have a feeling they replaced the grips all the time. maybe that's why they used screws vs rivets.
Still holding out for the day we see definitive pics.

 

[Gregatron]

The silver screws/rivets only seem to appear in the pre-production/publicity photos. In the movie itself, they appear to be either black or painted black, so as to appear less obvious.

And, of course, the textured tape on the Ranch saber does not appear to be in the movie at all. Every shot of the prop(s) features the 1/2" smooth tape.

 

[Clutch]

And since the d-ring saw a lot of action, why not just rivet it so that it stays put.

 

[Clutch]

The silver screws/rivets only seem to appear in the pre-production/publicity photos. In the movie itself, they appear to be either black or painted black, so as to appear less obvious.

And, of course, the textured tape on the Ranch saber does not appear to be in the movie at all. Every shot of the prop(s) features the 1/2" smooth tape.

The only time I saw a hint of what could be a brightly colored rivet is when he fell off the Tauntaun. But then again, it could be the graflex tube showing through the notches in the grips.

 

[GINO]

The silver screws/rivets only seem to appear in the pre-production/publicity photos. In the movie itself, they appear to be either black or painted black, so as to appear less obvious.

I think you might be right about that.


.

 

[lonepigeon]

What I find interesting is the apparent damage and missing end to one of the T track grips, which has broken off at the silver rivet.

I think it's just a lighting trick or something's wrong with the print that was scanned from. Other photos in the exact same session taken minutes or even seconds apart from this one clearly show the grips are all intact.

I like the look of rivets, but I really think they're screws. Compare them to the rivets on his belt which are about the same size. Rivet heads are flat with a slight beveled edge. The saber fastener heads look rounded. The center holes are always clearly visible in the rivets as black dots. The saber fasteners often shown no obvious center hole - probably because it's not a hole but an indentation for a screwdriver.

 

[James Kenobi 1138]

I think that if, for example, there were 2-3 Hero sabers and 2-3 stunt sabers and all of them had screws is the grips, there was one 'main Hero' that had rivets. I think the one with rivets was used for close-ups (wampa cave, bespin belt with R2, promo pics).

Here's my reasoning:
1. We know that rivets were used on the d-ring. It might have been made 'first' for Lucas approval having rivets in the grips, screws used in subsequent copies.

2. There are pop rivets that do not have a 'center hole'. They are water/air tight rivets, the center pulling stem is designed to break and plug the center hole. This might cause the effect of not seeing a dark, well defined hole.

3. We have enough reference to know that there were no screws in the ANH saber grips. We also have enough current reference that no small 2mm screws are visible in the ESB sabers, especially the Vader looking at the Carbon Chamber on-set photos. There does not seem to be and small 2mm screws in the grips on the Luke ESB.

4. Now we do know that the Vader ESB was re-used as a ROTJ Hero and 2mm screws were added to the grips, we assume post-production. We also know that there was never a Luke in ESB with the thick textured tape seen on-screen. So the SRS was either the Hero rebuilt, or production built but never used. I could easily see a hero being striped, cleaned and rebuilt with screws instead of rivets.

5. I think for close-up shots phillips head screws are very 'earthly' looking and it makes total sense to me that it they used rivets for the d-ring they used rivets in the grips, even if on just one Hero just for beauty shots. Even the PT sabers used aircraft caps and tire valves, not common hardware store fasteners. I think having a close-up of Lukes saber with Phillips head screws would totally break the illusion of a galaxy far away.

But I'd love some better pictures to know for sure.