Jedi death question

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HAL9000

Sr Member
Sure this must have been handled before, but rewatching TPM last week, made me think about it again...

When Ben dies, he disappears, as does Yoda.

Anakin (Vader) and Qui-Gon do not.

What is the story with them? Is there a system?
 

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Probe Droid

Master Member
I believe it was after Qui-Gon died that he came back and tought the others how to do it. He was always talking about "the living Force." It has something to do with that. Yoda mentions it to OWK at the end of Ep. III that he's been talking to QGJ. Anakin, obviously, didn't learn it.
 

Timmythekid

Sr Member
Yup, that's it right there. Yoda has more training for Obi-Wan, and in that pointless scene at the end of RotS where Yoda is catching a nap Qui-Gon was supposed to be telling him about merging with the force. Only Neeson apparently was still not too keen to work with Lucas in any capacity at all so he declined to show up for an afternoon in a recording studio, or phone work. Think about that a minute. Anyways, so no one knows how to do the trick until Qui-Gon returns from the netherworld and teaches Yoda, and Yoda teaches Obi-Wan. Now, does Luke vanish when he dies? He never learned that stuff, did he?
 

cboath

Master Member
Well, Luke had time after ROTJ to learn it from Ben. If the only thing george is beholden to is the movies - Luke has had limitless time with ghost obi to learn it.

According to the end of the movie, Anakin or Darth learned it as well. Seeing as how the method didn't become known til after he turned uber-bad-guy, they've yet to explain how he figured out the trick unless Qui-gon ran into him in the afterlife cantina and said 'Ani!! How's it going? Look at this trick I figured out'. And he'd have to do it like the minute he died as well since it appeared to be a matter of hours between death/fire/ghostly appearance.
 

Vermithrax 4

Well-Known Member
Then how did Anakin manage it?

Long before the PT I had always assumed that all Jedi fade away upon their deaths and can return in spirit if they wish, although most don't, they simply go on to become part of the Force. I also assumed that the Sith could not do this because of their darkness, that Anakin/Vader had not been aware of this before he turned to the Dark Side. Then when the PT happend that sort of threw a big monkey wrench into those magical ideas of mine. :lol
 

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Columbo

Active Member
Qui-Gon figured it out without any instruction and Anakin is the most in touch with the Force person ever - seeing as its his father :) - so doesn't seem odd to me that he could do it much more easily than Qui-Gon could.
 

CessnaDriver

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Disappearing or not, the results are clear and it's kinda messed up, a select few privy to the methods (a taught method apparantly if your at least half azz with the force) get to keep their identity after death effectively becoming immortal rather then getting poured back into the big force Borg pool like the rest of us schmucks! LOL

And if you do one good thing right before you die despite even murdering children and all sorts of atrocities... immortal! LOL
 

cboath

Master Member
Qui-Gon figured it out without any instruction and Anakin is the most in touch with the Force person ever - seeing as its his father :) - so doesn't seem odd to me that he could do it much more easily than Qui-Gon could.

In order to figure it out, you have to know it's possible - there's no way he can know it's possible. Nothing short of Qui-gon thinking he's good enough that in death he can talk him back to the good side and we find out he's been doing the ghost thing to vader the last 15 years or so.

Sorry, it took Qui-gon 20 years to figure it out. I'm not buying darth, not even knowing it's an option, figures it out inside of 24 hours.
 

Ronan87

Sr Member
Jedi's have done it before FYI. The movies only cover a VERY short timeline. In the past, the Jedi's were much more aware of the Force and the teachings were better.
 

micdavis

Master Member
Excuse me.

Palpatine TELLS Anakin he knows how to stop people from dying.

If he knows THAT, turning into a glowing ghost seems easy. May even be WHAT he was talking about. We don't really know in the movie.

Anakin learns it from Palpatine/Sidious during the "Darth" years.

Coming back from the Dead has to be a Darkside trick, yes?
 

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Timmythekid

Sr Member
Mmmm....nope, can argue with that. That, by definition Mic, is not "stopping people from dying" - it's how to come back after death, so you've got two different things going on. The "stopping people from dying" definetly is a darkside trick; it's selfish and immature. The merging with the force and retaining your conciousness less so.

How about going back to the virgin birth as an explanation? The Force created him; the Force reclaimed him at the end. Good and evil have no part in it, so no argument about Anakin's attrocities or when he learned it. Or maybe even his titanic evil and douchebaggery was neccessary to balance out the light-side presence of Yoda and Kenobi. Any takers?
 

CessnaDriver

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
The darkside downside is there can be no afterlife at all. Your just nothing. If I recall whatever it was I read correctly. So stealing another body makes sense.
 

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CessnaDriver

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Maybe someone who listed themselves as Jedi as religion in the UK can give us the answers. Don't they have a temple there yet??? LOL
 

micdavis

Master Member
I only acknowledge what happens IN the movies.

So a lot of it is still just a mystery. Unless it's in the Clone Wars, which I quit watching.
 

micdavis

Master Member
How about going back to the virgin birth as an explanation?
The bad guys are evil.

Just because Shmei Skywalker doesn't remember getting knocked up doesn't mean some unsavior Tatooine level doctor didn't knock her out and make her pregnant.

Born of the Force sounds really good and it is great cover story for the gullible.
 

Vermithrax 4

Well-Known Member
No, Palpatine did NOT know how to stop people from dying, that was what he told Anakin that Darth Plagueis could do. Recall what Palp said after Anakin turned to the Dark Side: "To cheat death is something only one has achieved but together I'm certain we can discover the secret." Honestly, I never thought there was any legitimacy in Palpatine's story about Plagueis, that he was just making this up to lure Anakin to the Dark Side, playing on his fear for Padme's life. Sidious is a liar, he lied to Anakin/Vader about Padme's death and he did it for his own devious purposes.

There are so many ideas thrown out in the PT that are so ludicrously silly. The midichlorian virgin birth is one of them and that goes hand in hand with the "prophecy" that Anakin is the "chosen one". Who made the prophecy? Anakin is now Space Jesus? What was so wrong with Anakin simply having been an execeptionally powerful Jedi who turned to the Dark Side? That would have made the whole saga an alegory for what can happen when one allows anger, fear & aggression to rule one's life and the negative consequences that can result.

I think I'll just stick to my own original belief that all Jedi fade away and join the Force, that it was a normal thing for them, but not all can manifest themselves, perhaps that's only something that exceptionally powerful Jedi masters could do. Once Anakin had turned back to the good side then that's why he appears at the end of ROTJ, he was simply that powerful...or perhaps he had help from Obi-Wan and Yoda so he could appear just that once so Luke could know that he had, in fact, succeeded in saving his father.
 

SSgt Burton

Sr Member
Wait wasn't it alluded to in the film that Darth (Plagus?) had the ability to "create" life?

The inferrence being that Anakin was actually born from some Sith "spell"?

And that Palpatine was the one who cast the spell?


EDIT- I'm too slow on the draw again. How did you manage to type all that before I could bang off three sentences? :lol

Kevin
 

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