Is Darth Vader's saber blade painted (ANH) & blade flexing.

[Mouse Vader]

Humm, that's making more sense - at last. Thank you both for taking the time over this.

So to a certain extent the current configuration is dependent on blade form/attachment method? or could be?

So I think the confusion might be that there's a level of attention to word usage that might be having too much weight put on to it and semantics are being argued where maybe they shouldn't be in what might otherwise be perceived as light discussion. It's easy for details to get lost the longer an explanation gets.

So you think I've been too literal & or specific in my wording that others haven't picked up on?

 

[kpax]

not sure if this image has been posted but found what looks like a big black line blade...

 

[BAlinger15]

Hi guys,

I've read through this and tried to digest as much as I can.

The diagram a few posts back showing how the emitter is held on via the rod is generally accurate. It's been some time since I disassembled the prop, but I'm pretty certain the nipple and the emitter are one single piece - this is evidenced by looking at the shaft that runs through it -- there are no breaks in that shaft.

I have never known exactly how the motor and blade set up for ANH worked. I don't know how it was set up. I don't think anyone does - though we can speculate. Certainly the emitter spins freely now and based on that I assumed it did at the time of ANH - could be wrong, as evidenced above. It's possible that a shaft originally connected to the motor in the hilt and extended out through the emitter - the emitter could have been free floating on it, and thus not spinning in some shots. Nobody knows.

I don't think the emitter was ever cut or anything like that. The emitter neck fits cleanly into the neck of the hilt itself -- they are made to fit together. This feels very intentional. Also, I don't see any evidence on the "V2" (I've never understood the name...) of it starting as a cast piece. They may have tried the cast piece ("V3"), found it didn't work very well, and gone to a straight machined piece instead.

I have always believed this was the prop used by Guinness in ANH. See the strange long clamp lever, that has not been seen on any other prop, and the missing Graflex sidebar. The jawa stun-prop is interesting -- could well be the exact same clamp. I note that prop is in Tunisia, whereas the saber prop would have been filmed later, at the studio.

Some unknown / undocumented additional hilt being the actual one used by Guinness? I'll leave the door open that anything is possible, but I doubt it. They didn't have many multiples on props for ANH. Look at the other key hand props...

Why are there two sets of set screws on the emitter - one below the widest "Emitter plate" and another on the nipple? I can't answer exactly. The ones in the nipple position, as it sits today, in to a groove cut in the run, and that's what locks the emitter on. I don't know what the lower set is doing, or did, if anything. It would seem reasonable that the lower set might have locked the emitter to the hilt, while the upper set somehow locked the blade in.

When I first saw the saber collars on the real blades, my immediate thought was -- the nipple on the hilt is one of those. But when I looked, they are different. The nipple on the Luke saber is a two-step thing. The collars on the existing saber blades don't have that step in them. It's also quite likely IMO that the existing blades are from ROJ only, possibly ESB, and most likely not from ANH.

If the footage truly shows the nipple moving and not the emitter face, it must be a different emitter, at least, to this one. Perhaps the "V3" was used for some shots.

I always welcome research and information. Unfortunately, we may never know exactly how the ANH blade-to-motor connection was made.

BTW, slightly related, check out the footage at around 8:03 here:

Is Hamill spinning the blade freely on the hilt, as it does today? I always thought it looked that way.

Best
Brandon

 

[Dann]

Looks almost like he's tightening the emitter? Or just rotating it with his hand. Not sure.

Thanks for coming in and giving us all that info, and for all that typing, Brandon!


Also, I can say, (and they do this on Dan's replica, at least) that the set screws below the emitter lip could very well lock the nipple in place. And if they're loosened, the nipple could theoretically spin free of the emitter body.

 

[Mouse Vader]

Whole bunch of clarification there, a bIG thank you , Brandon.

 

[Mouse Vader]

I'm just in the middle of going over that video, but have found at 7.46 - Mark H is holding it by the blade, His grip does not appear to change but if you watch the the pommel knobs they clearly show the hilt body rotating as he lowers it. No idea of the implications yet.


At 8.02 where he's holding it only in his right hand the pommel rotation matches his hand movement but his hand is close enough to the emitter face to be touching it. I'm more certain of the 7.46 just before he lets it slid down through his fist.

 

[Mouse Vader]

Right I'm going try & sqeeze this in here before everyone gets occupied with Brandon's post.

I have been going over my posts & responses to them.

I've clearly upset certain people far more than I realIsed.

So to those people in particular I offer my sincere apologies.

If I have offended anyone else with my comments I apologise, no offense was intended.

For informational purposes only, I have been offended myself. I am not soliciting apologies for this.

 

[kurtyboy]

Now, if someone could please reference a shot in ANH where a spinning emitter is clearly discernible, I'd greatly appreciate it.

 

[Trooper_trent]

Thanks BAlinger15 for jumping in and clarifying so much. It’s always a treat to get to learn more about what is many of our favorite prop ever. I really appreciate it.

 

[kpax]

Thanks Brandon. Great info and observations.

Not sure about Hamill is spinning the emitter. He is turning each hand in opposite directions as if to tighten a threaded pipe but could just be “screwing” with it.

My observation and question is that in ESB at least, the rehearsal duals are striking the blades together with fairly hard impact and swinging the sword fast and hard... and the blade is held on only by set screws mounted on just the tip? And the blades didn’t fly off?

I’m amazed if it was. I would have made the blade and emoter together with a shaft that went into the body of the saber and used a thumbscrew with a notch in the blade shaft to secure it Non motorized of course.

We have the film so i guess It worked! Assuming of course the rehearsal sabers are built the same or are the same sabers used on film. Amazing.

Did Brandon ever take any images of the inside of the saber? Motor mounting points as he graciously described? Curious.

 

[Mouse Vader]

And the blades didn’t fly off?

There's that BTS scene footage, admittedly it's ROTJ, of Luke vs Vader (just before Luke unhands Vader) where Luke's blade does fly off.

with a notch in the blade shaft to secure it

If the set up was as in the above pictures any flat spot on the stud emerging from the nipple would be lost when the stud was removed.
There are blades of this type on the table in this vid (you may know this others following us may not);

, the rehearsal duals are striking the blades together with fairly hard impact and swinging the sword fast and hard...

My research so far is showing there is likely a big difference between ANH & ESB blades, the latter being much more robust. (more here; The OT stunt lightsaber blades research thread )

Not sure about Hamill is spinning the emitter. He is turning each hand in opposite directions as if to tighten a threaded pipe but could just be “screwing” with it.

What's your take of what's happening at 7.46 (my above post).

If this is the V2 in this BTS ESB vid then it's clearly sporting an ESB type blade & almost certainly without it's motor which gives us data on when it underwent modification. I can see there are likely links from this bladed set up to ROTJ & it's current form.

The question is what - if anything - survived the conversion from ANH set up to ESB rehearsal bladed stunt.

 

[Mouse Vader]

[deleted duplicate of below]

 

[Mouse Vader]

not sure if this image has been posted but found what looks like a big black line blade...

That pic is not hard to find so crops up quite a bit. I'm still trying to find out if the consensus is if it's the V2 or V3 (or if the V3 ever had a motor).
To me it looks like it's lacking a graflex clamp & the booster section is covered in gaffe tape.

 

[steven giunta]

I personally think the v3 did have a motor. It was originally cast aluminum saber (original wooden saber and a casted aluminum version in the photo)and it has the holes drilled were the wires would go. If they never put a motor in it why would all this holes be drilled out.
Is this the first time bandon has mentioned the set screws under the bigest part of the enitter?i know they were discovered in the pop culture video but I don’t remember Brandon ever confirming they are there.
In the behind the scenes video it does look like Mark Hamill is tightening the blade. Although I do not think he is,I think it just looks that way because he’s spinning the blade and the

saber in opposite directions.

 

[kpax]

Question about this idea of cast aluminum saber bodies.

Brandon mentions that his prop is machined and not cast.

My experience with aluminum casting is that it creates rough castings that then need secondary operations to clean them up enough so they don’t look like castings and has considerable shrinkage

The saber bodies may have indeed been cast aluminum but it seems like that would have been a great deal of effort having to create an oversized saber model to begin with and then molding it and casting only a few parts. Seems like overkill when those shapes are easily turned on a lathe.

Just wondering since I am no expert on this prop but enjoy learning

 

[kpax]

Based on the video cover above, it seems there were several different blade attachment solutions.

One of the ob1 hilts does look like it has a casting seam.

Interesting stuff

 

[vadermania]

Vadermania - any chance of running the GRP coating info past Jon?

I just wrote a very long email to Jon summing up what we have researched so far. Hopefully he will be able to answer some open questions.

 

[Mouse Vader]

Thanks Vadermania - fingers crossed.

It was originally cast aluminum saber (original wooden saber and a casted aluminum version in the photo)

I came across those pic's looking for V3 motor info, but couldn't find anything of their provenance, other than they were on fleabay. I take it they're regarded as legit?

 

[vadermania]

Thanks Vadermania - fingers crossed.


I came across those pic's looking for V3 motor info, but couldn't find anything of their provenance, other than they were on fleabay. I take it they're regarded as legit?

Both the wooden master and the metal blank are legit and are now part of Propstore‘s collection. Jon told me about the wooden master long ago, I first shared the story with Parts of Star Wars.

 

[Mouse Vader]

Both the wooden master and the metal blank are legit and are now part of Propstore‘s collection. Jon told me about the wooden master long ago, I first shared the story with Parts of Star Wars.

Ta very much.

I've 'borrowed' this pic from Kurtyboy on this thread
The OT stunt lightsaber blades research thread
Brandon describes them in this thread post#86;
ANH Vader Stunt Lightsaber
The type believed to be ESB are circled on the right.