Is Darth Vader's saber blade painted (ANH) & blade flexing.

[Mouse Vader]

I can't find anything in the forum on this (doesn't mean it's not there) but while researching something else I noticed there's a short sequence in which smoke or dust comes off Darth Vader's light saber (look for cursor arrow). Check out the youtube vid at full speed & it's quite obvious (from 45.44). Is this evidence his saber is painted? What else could it be?

Secondly, in just one frame, OB1's blade is showing some real flex. Could Aluminium bounce back straight from that much bend? Has anyone tried flexing Aluminium tube that much?

 

[Halliwax]

The scotchlite paint they are using dusts off because obiwans blade is spinning, technically grinding the paint off

You can it puffs of dust here and there when they clash

As for obiwans bending, that’s a first for me, could be poor rotoscoping though? I honestly don’t know how that works..

If the blades were made of pine, I would imagine it would bend, but I can’t believe it would bend that much lol

 

[Mouse Vader]

Has anyone done a test with real blades that shows the same dust ?

Bend bendy - wow I found something new !!!! Why would a rotoscoper do that ? I can't think it would be accidental. For me that's a pretty full on whack. Carbon fiber (as in fishing rod) & fiberglass I think could do it, I'm not so sure about my favoured golf club sticks, though they do make them in differing stiffnesses, but what stiffness options were available in the 70's.
There's some noticeable flexing going on in this locked blade push & shove scene too (& I know this has been spotted before).

 

[steven giunta]

Could the motor in Vader’s stunt have gone bad and we’re seeing a puff of smoke from the inside of the saber?maybe that’s why Vader uses Luke’s stunt

 

[kurtyboy]

There is definitely reflective paint on at least one of those blades (I just assumed both) and it has been discussed before. 3M no longer make the paint but they do sell the Scotchlite glass beads which could be added to a suitable substrate.

Their paint was used to paint walls for front projection.

I always wanted to try something like it but the fabric was just so much more convenient and cheaper, not to mention more durable.

 

[Halliwax]

Has anyone done a test with real blades that shows the same dust ?

Bend bendy - wow I found something new !!!! Why would a rotoscoper do that ? I can't think it would be accidental. For me that's a pretty full on whack. Carbon fiber (as in fishing rod) & fiberglass I think could do it, I'm not so sure about my favoured golf club sticks, though they do make them in differing stiffnesses, but what stiffness options were available in the 70's.
There's some noticeable flexing going on in this locked blade push & shove scene too (& I know this has been spotted before).

View attachment 991267

My golf clubs DEFINITELY bend

 

[kurtyboy]

Could be an extra stiff flex then because the standard flex is too bendy. Even just swinging them about they are bending all over the place.

A thin rod of wood would also flex like this but aluminium would deform too easily and sound nothing like they do.

Now if I could only find an XXL stiff flex used club at a reasonable price to try.

 

[Mouse Vader]

A quick static test of my 36" golf stick, one handed, fair amount of pressure. I'm sure OB1's blade here is about that length. I don't recall seeing anything on mine re. flex strength & I've covered up the lettering now. I think I could get near that whack bend with both hands, It's pretty stiff though but to get it there with a hit would need some speed as it's so light & hitting another stick - I don't know what would happen. I've got some more on their way, a couple of which I was thinking of testing to destruction but with fabric on them not tape so I'll be waiting a while I think.

 

[thd9791]

I want to chime in and say that in ANH the blades were almost certainly flat sided wood (most likely square) that we do know. Many stories say the same thing, that they changed from wood to something else for ESB due to the dangers and unreliability.

 

[Mouse Vader]

Almost & most likely doesn't = knowledge. All the ANH on screen & BTS photographic evidence I've seen looks round to me. I've seen one quote (in the guardian online) of triangular blades being used. I've found no primary source evidence of triangular or square. I joined RPF specifically to see if these flat sided blades were real, & so far not found it. Maybe you could point me at some primary source stuff. I'm not saying that these flat blades were not tried but all I ready of them is in print as that it's well known with no quoted sources.

I have a science based education & was an historical re-enactor for several years & I learned only to deal with primary sources, which is what I'm trying to do. Kurtyboys square blade video does look very like the scene on the falcon but too wobbly for the duel. Experimental evidence is much better than plain opinion, especially mine.

Phew - I don't know where that rant came from, but I feel better for it

 

[kurtyboy]

I'm afraid the wobbliness of my blade is due to it being warped and the hole in the base for the motor shaft was hand drilled and is neither perfectly centred nor straight.

I'm leaning towards round now as well as I've been able to recreate the same square looking edges when spinning.

But I wish I knew for sure!

Here were the famous quotes about triangular and square blades.

ANH Stunt Lightsaber "Blades"--Triangular??? Gil Taylor sez so...

ANH Stunt Lightsaber "Blades"--Triangular??? Gil Taylor sez so...

 

[thd9791]

This shot of Obi Wan during the famous duel has a square tip, moving mid frame, making it slightly elongated. You can also see the corner of the blade extend all the way to the nipple of the saber.

there are numerous conversations on here, kurtyboy posted some of them, discussing this, and we're working off of those. We went through debunking the triangular ones a while back, if I remember correctly.

We don't have a lot of primary sources, unfortunately. Some folks on here have primary sources they are unable to legally share, so that means taking their advice at face value. Those bits are scattered throughout the entirety of this site's discussions.

There are at least 2 quoted sources on these blades, with their accuracy questionable. All of the photographic evidence of round blades extends as far back as ESB, and the only hard evidence is from ROTJ or post-production marketing.

It's tiresome to fight this idea that there's no real evidence for anything and this is all conjecture. We've done work on these boards that is worth paying attention to.

 

[Mouse Vader]

Thanks for the links. I've found that thread before but lost it again. I'd read the 1st link to the guardian & Gil Taylor but not seen the 2nd on John Stears.
about the square blades.

I find the 2nd very interesting as I've very recently gone through the clip of Luke on the falcon frame by frame (link:

from 4.30 min ).

I'm not absolutely certain but I am at least half convinced there are two black stripes to this blade one thicker than the other & this blade behaves very differently to all other LS scenes in the film. It's not a good quality clip though, Does anyone know a better one?

 

[Mouse Vader]

thd9791, on kurtyboys 2nd link there is also that same picture you give of OB1, it's from the special edition, he goes on to correct himself & show the same frame from the original theatrical version which doesn't show that square tip - it's a motion blurred line. & the corner of the blade you mention is the infamous black stripe.

It's also tiresome tracking down all the work you've done across this sites discussions, unfortunately for me I can 't distinguish between the 'it's well known that' & the genuine pearls of wisdom unless backed up in some way. It's also in my nature to speak out if I find out what's being/been written contradicts my own research - see my above paragraph.

I'm sure we all are after the truth here. I will take on board what you've written but please don't think I'm a dolt just because I'm new to the forum. I have skills too which I want to contribute with.

 

[thd9791]

I'm sure we all are after the truth here. I will take on board what you've written but please don't think I'm a dolt just because I'm new to the forum. I have skills too which I want to contribute with.

Things have gotten a little backwards, I apologize for giving off that impression. You were the one saying that there was no real proof and no quoted sources of flat sided blades, which is just incorrect.

Interpreting the pictures with less *movement as worse for seeing the actual props with this last one. I don't follow that logic at all.

 

[vadermania]

During my conversations with Jon Bunker (the person I got my lighsaber blank from back in 1997, he was involved in the making of the original stunt lightsabers from ANH) he said that they experimented with triangular blades for ANH, but went with square (wooden) blades for the shooting. Based on all my research, it is my personal optinion that the Obi spinning blades were made of tapered wooden sticks, wich were originally round. My gut feeling is that these round sticks were square milled towards the tip, starting about 2 inches from the blades base towards the tip. There are a handful CU pics available of Hamill and Guiness holding an ANH stunt (either the Graflex or the V2), and the stunt blade at the base looks definitely round to me based on the shape and the shadows it creates.

 

[kurtyboy]

Well that adds another interesting aspect.

I also wondered if it might have been round with just one or two flattened sides, so square-ish!!!

So far I've created a good effect with both square and round. Maybe both were even used.

 

[Mouse Vader]

Interpreting the pictures with less *movement as worse for seeing the actual props with this last one. I don't follow that logic at all.

Sorry I don't understand this sentence.

re. sources - I was trying to say a) not that there was no sources but that when ref is made to sq blade (eg) that no reference is given to that source so the likes of me can look it up & b) even if I assume they have a source & not mentioned it, that I'm having trouble finding it in the maze of the forum.

Lovely bit info vadermania - straight from one of the horses.
My current plan is to try & replicate as near as pos the pictorial evidence we do have with Sq & round & if nec's triangular blades, both still pic's & in motion & test these theories of shapes & materials. I'm keen to know, but I don't want to waste anyone's time (inc. mine) repeating stuff that's already been done.
I know I have a lot of catching up to do.

 

[kurtyboy]

The one thing that most sources keep repeating though is wood for ANH.

Snooker cues could well have been used as the basis like Brandon said, but milled down to the required shape and diameter.

 

[Halliwax]

The one thing that most sources keep repeating though is wood for ANH.

Snooker cues could well have been used as the basis like Brandon said, but milled down to the required shape and diameter.

@2:10 “the first swords were from bits of wood, with, from protection screen wrapped around them”

So these are the first swords? I feel there is more to this conversation left out... since he said “FIRST”

Would have loved to know the rest...

I wonder if there is any way to reach out to this man...