LOM's Saber Projects: V3, V2, Buck, ANH-Barbican (new!), & Dooku(s)!

LOM

Well-Known Member
Last Major-ish update: June 29th, 2021


I'm going to try and maintain this first post as a catalog of various references to various saber projects I find myself working on.

For those who are building, designing, or finishing a saber that I've worked on - there will be a link to all the images of those sabers that I could find publicly available in a Google Drive! If you have any images you'd like to add, feel free to PM me or post them here. Or, if you would like to be credited for your images or would like an image removed from the Google Drive, let me know as well!
Outline of my projects contained in this first post:

"Thin Necks"​
- V3/Shared Stunt​
- V2​
- Wooden Buck​
- Raw Casting​
"Barbican"​
- ANH Barbican 1.0​
- ANH Barbican 2.0​
"Dooku"​
- AotC Hero Hilt​
- RotS Stunt Hilt​


The "V3" or "Shared Stunt" - Jan. 13 2021 - V3 Reference
The saber project that sent me down this path, it's come a long way since my first pass using practically just the Visual Dictionary photo for reference. It's quite an interesting saber and there is a lot going on in the grooves everywhere. The V3 is a special saber for me, for a long time this was Luke's RotJ lightsaber based on all the books and merch I had - so I really wanted to get this saber right. The V3 is honestly my favorite of the bunch - such a weird history

I believe the correct word is "eureka!"
(Give or take a few tweaks here and there as always.)
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*pardon the absurdly large graflex lever please :lol:

June 2021: How wonky can you go?
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V3 History Reference:
For Reference, this is a "timeline" of when the V3 shows up in places:

ANH: Assumed to be created from a wooden master, but unfinished during production
***I believe the V3 to be motorized during ANH based on my own references, research, and conjecture. Though it might be actually impossible to prove such a thing without onset prop photos that show a distinct steam line. Which I do not believe exist.
-If it was unfinished, why would it be important enough to save? The other unsaved props went straight into the trash for SPFX members to take (who did not return for the next film, as Stears' moved on) I would guess the production used props were put into a storage facility, and when they pulled out used pieces like an R2, this was pulled as well.
-Having just 1 stunt saber on set (the V2) would seem impractical when blades kept snapping all the time.
-No toggle switch? Could have had an in-line switch that was attached to the wire. That way the Guinness could not flip the switch on accident for example, and would also give more room for a motor or metal rod.


ESB: Appears to be used in rehearsal for stunts [sports ANH paint job.]
RotJ: Appears to be used in the Throne Room fight, Endor Speeder swipe, and practice for the Luke surrendering himself. Resin copies were made as well, which were potentially an inspiration for the design of the Yuma [sports ANH paint job, mostly faded throughout duel. Almost stripped in the final UK pick up shots. however, once in the US I believe the emitter was repainted solidly black for a few US Endor pick up shots to better match the V2]

1993:
  • Refurbished in the Archives by Don Bies for tour in Japan and to be featured in a book(?)
1995:
  • Appears in the book: "From Star Wars to Indiana Jones: The Best of the Lucasfilm Archives"
  • Appears in "The Art of Star Wars" exhibit in the Yerba Buena Center in San Francisco
1996/7:
  • Pictures taken in the Archives that now appear in the Original Prop Blogs' article
1998:
  • Featured in the book: "Star Wars: The Visual Dictionary"
2000/1:
  • Went on tour as part of "The Art of Star Wars," at locations including Barbican Art Gallery(?) and the Helsinki City Art Museum(?)
2005:
  • Was exhibited at Star Wars Celebration III
  • Appears in "Dressing a Galaxy: The Costumes of Star Wars" exhibit at the FIDM museum in San Francisco
2007:
  • Launched on STS-120 (Which also delivered the Harmony module to the ISS!) and taken into space, subsequently kept at the Houston Space Center for a time. *NASA inventory number was added at this time
2009:
  • Still in possession of NASA(?) as it appeared in "The Films of George Lucas" at the Johnson Space Center
2010:
  • In early 2010, appears to be at the Main House at Skywalker Ranch
  • Later appears at a museum in Sacramento
Recent Whereabouts:
  • Supposedly kept in the Main House at Skywalker Ranch (as of 2015)

The "V2" - WIP Feb. 10 2021
Initially I didn't want to pursue making a V2 because there are already so many great models out there and I know of a couple more great ones coming this year. I didn't feel like I would need to do it, but it was a fun exercise! (Though, I really just wanted to say "I did it!" for myself just to round out the lot) I've been watching some V2's develop closely so I'm holding off from doing more on it for the foreseeable future. However after a couple days of on and off modeling... I did get carried away a bit and refined it a lot more. I don't think it looks too bad?
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*please pardon the incorrect clamp lever/nut :)

It's not 100%, there are a few things that can be nudged in a few directions (as always) even thought it looks pretty darn good on these pics if I do say so myself. Overall, I have managed to make the body successfully fit snuggly into the v3 - save for the last grenade valley wall towards the clamp. Not sure how to fix that one, so I'll just guess the V2 didn't have a casting deformity there or something?! :confused: But I was ecstatic when I saw all the grenade rings fit into the V3!

The major remaining bits on it are the pommel cubes - Only a couple of them got photo comparisons, the rest are guesswork lol. Actually the nipple could use some work too. (But trust me - there are some real fine V2s on their way that I personally am looking forward to picking up!)


V2 History Reference:
For Reference, this is a "timeline" of when the V2 shows up in places.

But in all honesty, just read this thread:
Luke ROTJ V2 lightsaber

Reading those developments as they happened is going to be miles better than what I could explain.

ANH: Assumed to be created from a wooden master - Alec Guinness' primary motorized stunt saber
ESB: Appears to be used in rehearsal for stunts [sports ANH paint job]
RotJ: Promoted to "Hero" status and used as the belt hanger throughout the film. (disappears off set after filming)

Early 2000s(?)
  • Dubbed the "V2" by PoSW
[Acquired by Brandon Alinger, founder of theRPF - presumably in this time period]
2015:
2017:
  • Featured in Mark Hamill's Pop Culture Quest

The "Wooden Buck" - WIP Feb. 23 2021 - Buck + Cast Reference
There's a lot of subtle geometry on this guy. It's real fun to work on - and its been quite an enlightening process. Seeing where certain geometries on the V3 likely came from and such.

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My assumed construction of the wooden buck. However, based on some observations made by others who have handled the prop, I am unsure if the lower pommel end actually pops off. It makes sense to me that it would, but I have been told there is almost nothing to suggest that when inspecting it in person. For this model though, I will make the assumption that it does come off, as it saves a theoretical step. Whether that step is the crew recast the buck and cut the lower pommel off to add the trunk, or if there is another buck - I have no idea.
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The Wooden Buck History Reference:
For Reference, this is a "timeline" of when the Wooden Buck shows up in places:

ANH: Created to be the master for Obi-Wan stunt saber castings, likely by someone on the SPFX team. Probably binned at the end of production, and as SPFX crewmembers pick souvenirs, it is saved along with a blank casting.

2003: Auctioned on eBay with a blank casting. [Did not sell]

[PropStore acquires both buck and blank casting]

2011: On "Tour" as part of PropStore's exhibit that would go to conventions. (SDCC 2011?, 2012?) with blank casting.

2019: Auctioned as part of PropStore's 2019 Entertainment Memorabilia Live Auction on October 1st [Blank casting auctioned separately]

Recent Whereabouts:
  • In the collection of Gus Lopez [with the blank casting too]
OK I did the cast too. Might've gotten carried away. WIP still though.
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ANH "Barbican" - June 17 2020 - Completed(ish) - Barbican Reference
See Pg. 4 for details.
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ANH "Barbican" Mark 2 - July 6th 2021 - Completed!

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OOOOhhhh!

And it spins! :)


Barbican History Reference: WIP
ANH: Created for the duel. Motor most likely malfunctioned, or the saber broke needing the Graflex Stunt to be used as well.
Created to be Vader's motorized hilt, I do not believe there was enough depth and the motor was unable to balance or keep itself in the socket while rotating because it was seated high up. Wires were attached at some point, due to the hole on it and some picture reference. (though, I think there could be 2 Barbicans.) In addition, I don't believe it broke, rather it was a pain to replace the blades because it required popping the emitter off to access set screws, to pop out the core, to access more set screws to lock in a blade. This is all conjecture based on images. The Graflex stunt was only utilized in 2, maybe 3 shots in the movie during the duel is my current understanding of it. ***Note, the real barbican likely had a toggle switch similar to the V2 rather than a push button switch.

ESB: Appears to be used in rehearsal for stunts, and on the catwalk duel with Luke in the movie. Also apparently in the carbon chamber rehearsal.
RotJ: Unsure if it appears in the movie, but a resin cast was utilized as the saber Vader looses when his hand is cut. (I believe it makes a short appearance in one scene)

2005:
  • Was exhibited at Star Wars Celebration III
  • Appears in "Dressing a Galaxy: The Costumes of Star Wars" exhibit at the FIDM museum in San Francisco
2008:
  • Resin saber and severed hand were in Bob Burn's collection at least till then
Recent Whereabouts:
  • Contained in the Lucasfilm archives
  • Part of Star Wars Identities Exhibit?


AotC Count Dooku Hero - WIP May 25, 2021 - Dooku Reference

Count Dooku's hero saber from AotC - created using a few key measurements and some great photos that were made available to me! The Dooku sabers are weiiirdd when you start to get to know them. It is a really funky hilt - the geometry is all over the place. Fortunately you can kind of slice it into quite a few distinct sections to work on. This is mostly blocked out at the moment, it needs a lot of refinement and rechecking of measurements which I'll be doing soonish. More write-up on the Dooku hilts can be found under the next hilt!

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Out of Date:
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RotS Count Dooku Belt Hagar Stunt - WIP Jan. 31 2021
Dooku - using measurements from a [likely rejected] unused stunt casting.

I'm actually really happy with how this came out! Just need to tweak a few curves here and there, and the "elbow" where it branches off. (That elbow is the least accurate part... it's looks the right but its HORRIBLE!) No overlays or specialness because it is idealized at the moment. I may try and go back and unidealized it, but it is a lot of work lol. Oddly, the castings of the AotC hero saber have a vertical "j" curve to them, whereas the RotS stunt castings - which this model is of - do not.

Here's where things get tricky. The AotC/VD sculpt is different than the RotS stunt sculpt. The RotS mold notably the emitter is in-line with the grenade section, whereas on the AotC sabers, the emitter is shifted up ever so slightly, and the main grip portion has a cutout on the AotC hilt which is not present on the RotS hilt. Interestingly, the one of the RotS belt hangar stunt was vacuum metalized, but has tarnished into a brassy color in the years since filming. That 'stunt belt hangar' is pretty much what I re-created using the measurements I was provided from the dueling stunt.

I have no idea why it would be re-sculpted for RotS, unless it was to redo the blade attachment method. If I had to guess, I think it is a heavily reworked casting of an AotC hilt because the shrinkage is quite severe from the original AotC hero, but there are details that align between the two such as the grenade and the elbow. It's primarily the emitter and main grip that are different, and those could have been re-sculpted or reattached from separate resin castings. Honestly, if you think the V3 is wonky and difficult to model accurately - Dooku's saber is a nightmare.

Also - they made a straight-grenade stunt for AotC dueling too, which appears to share details with this type of stunt casting. I have no idea what the lineage tree of the Dooku saber must look like anymore.
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On the bright side, with my recent foray into the AotC hero hilt, I now have some great insights on what to update on this hilt to make it more accurate. Yay!

The Count Dooku Saber History Reference:
For Reference, this is a "timeline" of when the Dooku shows up in places:
Disregard this for now, I need to update this now that I've learned much more about the Dooku hilts.

AotC:
-Assumed to be sculpted and machined by the lightsaber prop team.


I also think the other "hero" Dooku saber was made around this time, as it appeared in the Visual Dictionary. However, all AotC stunts auctioned by PropStore share the same details as the brass hero, so I am going to call that the AotC hero, even if the other was chosen to represent it in canon. (Just like the RotJ hero being chosen to represent the canon hilt too?!)

RotS:

dfsakfd Can be found on Your Props.
-Stunt castings are made with the threaded rod cast within the hilt

-Assumed the re-sculpted model from the VD is promoted to hero status
-New stunts made based on the new hero.


Known Castings:

RotS 'Brass' Belt Hangar Stunt
-Vacuum metalized (worn and tarnished today)
-grips seem to be a smaller checkering compared to other versions
-No hole in emitter for blade

AotC Hero(?) Stunt(?) Prototype(?), PropStore Lot 687 from the Entertainment Memorabilia Live Auction - London 2020
-Grips seem to be tape?
-Hole in emitter for blade, but no damage

RotS(?) Stunt, PropStore Lot 664 from the Entertainment Memorabilia Live Auction - LA 2020

x1 Hero Saber, x1 Stunt (with threaded rod) from RPF user that had the production mold(?), user MIA no confirmation.

=============================
Visual Dictionary
-Matte metal elbow
-RotS mold(?)
AotC Tour (Hero?), Previously on Tour as part of the Magic of Myth, and Star Wars: Where Science Meets Imagination
-Hole in emitter, but no damage
AotC Stunt (Belt Hangar?), PropStore Lot 691 from the Entertainment Memorabilia Live Auction - 2019
-Hole in emitter, slight damage around edge
AotC Tour (Hero?) South America Touring saber, notably in Brazil exhibit.
-Hole in emitter, but no damage
Star Wars: Celebration Hero

===
Roger Christian, "Designing The Lightsaber" Bonus Clip - 1 Hero with undamaged hole is present
Lucas Narrative Arts Museum Picture - x2 Hero sabers on shelf.

Most likely there are two hero sabers present in the archives. The Brazil Tour, and the SW:WCMI Tour saber. Visual Dictionary is MIA, and I can't find any stunt Dooku sabers elsewhere either.

As of writing this I know of ~4 more castings. Too lazy to write them down as they are all in varying conditions in private collections. I now know why it is almost impossible to track these things.

=============================================================================================​
Conclusion
I hope you've found my work to be kind of neat and informative. :) I've done my best at accuracy but all of these models are a work in progress, since something always comes up whether it be a new measurement from original, or a new photo which shows something in a new angle. I'm sure you can spots some kind of geometric inaccuracy if you look though, but as usual all of these models are an interpretation of various pictures and measurements. Sometimes some sets of data will yield better results, as a lot of it is really derivative of source materials. Perhaps ya learned something too from my timeline/musings which has stemmed from my incessant need for acquiring information and learning about these hilts. Seriously, it's a problem. I've got a pdf that's about 40 pages long now full of stuff just on ANH hilts based on many discussions here and other research (some of which you can read here now!). While working on these model I've had wonderful conversations and made some great friends as a bonus! It's also led me down a crazy rabbit hole of these props where I've learned there is always more to learn. If you have a question regarding one of these hilts, feel free to reach out. I have some very extensive research and theories on these specific hilts and if you get me started I probably wont shut up. It also does make me quite happy to know people want these models and I'm currently working on getting them into the hands of people that want them.

Coming eventually....
Luke ANH spfx? Kylo Ren? Ahsoka? Mara Jade? So much to do so little time...


Time for a new family photo! (Updated again. Because I used an old version of the V3 on the last images here)
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From left to right: Buck, Blank, V3, V2. As you can see, there are a few scaling issues. The Buck and the V3 I am quite confident about. The V2 and the Blank I am much much less confident on, despite seemingly matching on the overlays.

I wanted to put some special shout-outs here to Vadermania as without him my V3 would have never been possible, BRRogers for constantly encouraging me to refine my models, Halliwax for letting me bounce my stupid ideas and theories off him regarding these sabers, James for sharing measurements from his Dooku casting and letting me pester him about random details on it, and quite a few others who took time to chat with me and share lovely details about these sabers including some critical background information, research, and even measurements from some of these hilts. Also - everyone who checked this thread out! :)
=============================================================================================

Thanks for looking!

Original Post, abridged to clean up some of the nonsense I spouted then:
Hi all!

This is my first major project – a V3. [snip] I plan on trying to recreate how it looks today in its 'restored' state (kind of how people capture the look of the Worldcon Blaster rather than the on-screen look) since for some reason, I find it quite interesting.

In the world of amazingly accurate Hero and V2 sabers, the poor V3 gets left out quite a bit, probably due to the fact that its really ugly and hard to capture all the details. I would like to capture the V3 as accurately as possible, [snip]

Big thanks to all the V3 threads, a lot of the research done has been really helpful and a wonderful read. Also thanks to Vadermania for helping me out with a few measurements, and many members for their inspiring builds and research!

A few questions that I would like to pose to all of you before I get on with it:
  1. Any idea where I can get an accurate D-Ring for this? It almost looks like a Kobold clip D-ring to me but I honestly have no idea.
  2. The V2 has that weird pommel grove, and it seems the V3 has it as well? It doesn't show up in too many of the pictures I have but I'm curious if this has been discussed.
r6 pommel thing.png


The pommel has been giving me some trouble for awhile now, since there isn't really a straight on view, modeling that has been hard for me. I also plan to try and make the 'fatter' part of the rings a bit bigger to eliminate that step where the seam is, but that's why I need that printed prototype. I think I figured out how the rings should be modeled as well, but I again, don't have the skills to do it correctly. (I also need to work on the screw hole placement, and the weird booster may have too much of an angle)

Anyways, here's some pics! [Yes, it's night and day compared with the current model]


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R2.PNG


R3.PNG



R4.PNG


If you've got any comments or critiques I'd love to hear them. Hoping to get that 3D print soon and a few more details ironed out.

[snip]
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LOL Fusion is wonderful to work with.


Image Link Credits:
Original Prop Blog Article: "EXCLUSIVE: 237 Lost/Unpublished Historic Star wars and Indiana Jones Movie Prop Photos from the Lucasfilm Archives from 1996/1997", Original Prop Blog, "From the Basement of Bob Burns", SWCA Pics
PropStore: Various auctions
John Sciacca Writes... "Photos from my visits to Lucas Ranch and ILM to cover the new Force Unleashed video game"
Brandon Alinger (V2 pics)

Flickr Links:
Celebration III
Lucasfilm Exhibitions
Andy
https://flic.kr/p/6i32x7 Star Wars Costume Exhibit 11.19.05
https://flic.kr/p/5CYFw https://flic.kr/p/6i32E3 https://flic.kr/p/27r6y Celebration 3 (Indianapolis) - 2005
https://flic.kr/p/4wq3r9 https://flic.kr/p/6TGamT NASA Lightsaber Event
https://flic.kr/p/4kExWU The Films of George Lucas-Johnson Space Center
[/URL]



& Various RPF members/threads, as well as my own random digging through Google image searches, and reverse image searches that took me to sketchy sites from the early 2000s that randomly had larger or crisper photos.
 

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LOM

Well-Known Member
starwrslover Thanks for the tip! Just found the correct one I think

chazzychaz I know some people have converted Anakin Starkiller's V2 kit to a V3, and jorged123 has done an upgraded emitter for that V2 kit to make an accurate V3. Awhile back I think there was a run of an idealized version from someone else as well. But one thing that all of those runs lacked before was that nasty seam line down the side from casting, and I'd really like to try and capture that.

Anyways.. some updates for this model are the works in the next couple of days hopefully!
 

thd9791

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Hey Halliwax have you seen this?

I have not seen that part discussed yet - we can start discussing in the V3 or V2 thread if you'd like. From what I understand that circle is from pausing while Milling out the pommel cubes (its a rotating bit)

It would seem they also paused in making the V3. The marks are in different places and the V2's almost has 2 circles. GOOD EYE!
 

PoopaPapaPalps

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I'm working on a V2/V3/Shared Stunt/filming hilts project as well, replicating the exact method like the production copies. From my research, I can also say that the pommel of the V3 also has the same machine markings on it as the V2 does, just in different spots. I think I've spotted three from various photos and it leads me to think that the V2 would have more than the one. I think it would have to by the very nature these things are made.

The markings, at least the ones on mine that I've made, do come from pausing, but it's not like stopping. Because these things were machined manually, it's more like adjusting your speed when you're feeding the thing under the bit. The bit is at high speed and you're hogging lots of material away, so to keep it from kicking or jumping, you have to slow down a bit at times so the bit can chew away at the material.

This is an example from the prototype I made and parted with not too long ago.

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IMG_7253.JPG
 
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BRRogers

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Hi all!

This is my first major project – a V3. I've been on this forum for about 3 years now, but I haven't really done anything. I do have a Blade Runner blaster on the backlog, but I figured it was time to take a break from that. Although I've been meaning to build some lightsabers for years now, I never really got around to it till recently when I started doing a lot of reading on older threads here. For the past few weeks, I've been working on this model to try and capture the V3 as well as I can. I am a pretty mediocre modeler, so this is has been a learning experience and probably the most “complex” thing I have modeled. I plan on trying to recreate how it looks today in its 'restored' state (kind of how people capture the look of the Worldcon Blaster rather than the on-screen look) since for some reason, I find it quite interesting.

In the world of amazingly accurate Hero and V2 sabers, the poor V3 gets left out quite a bit, probably due to the fact that its really ugly and hard to capture all the details. I would like to capture the V3 as accurately as possible, but my skills as a modeler are definitely not going to let that happen so it will be slightly idealized. I also hope to try and get this model CNC'd when its done, but that probably wont happen for awhile, so for now my friend is printing me a prototype. Hopefully when its all done, I'll have a separate pommel, body, and emitter. If that fails, I may have a go at trying to cast it in a foundry but I'll figure that all out when I get there. Either way, I'm pretty happy with the model as-is and decided it may be worth sharing.

Big thanks to all the V3 threads, a lot of the research done has been really helpful and a wonderful read. Also thanks to Vadermania for helping me out with a few measurements, and many members for their inspiring builds and research!

A few questions that I would like to pose to all of you before I get on with it:
  1. Any idea where I can get an accurate D-Ring for this? It almost looks like a Kobold clip D-ring to me but I honestly have no idea.
  2. The V2 has that weird pommel grove, and it seems the V3 has it as well? It doesn't show up in too many of the pictures I have but I'm curious if this has been discussed.
View attachment 1259631

The pommel has been giving me some trouble for awhile now, since there isn't really a straight on view, modeling that has been hard for me. I also plan to try and make the 'fatter' part of the rings a bit bigger to eliminate that step where the seam is, but that's why I need that printed prototype. I think I figured out how the rings should be modeled as well, but I again, don't have the skills to do it correctly. (I also need to work on the screw hole placement, and the weird booster may have too much of an angle)

Anyways, here's some pics!


View attachment 1259633

View attachment 1259635

View attachment 1259636


View attachment 1259637

If you've got any comments or critiques I'd love to hear them. Hoping to get that 3D print soon and a few more details ironed out.


Thanks for looking!
Looks like a very accurate representation of the archives book image/cropping.

I would HIGHLY recommend establishing a large volume of photos to corroborate and compare the straight on side view. One side- image is not enough to build an accurate model.
As with the Hero, the archives book image is NOT a good representation as the editing and cropping remixes much of the edge/profile data in a confusing way.

another question I have is: machinability. Are you looking to cast these or have them machined? The seam lines in the grenade are quite well defined and (as one can clearly see) are asymmetrical. On either half, at least offset.
If trying to maintain that; This would be ideal as a 3D printed/molded/metal cast replica.
However if you desire to have it machined it will turn *into* something like the V2. The staggered seam-line assymetry won’t be possible.
 

LOM

Well-Known Member
thd9791 One thing I find odd about the milling marks here, is that to me they look a lot more protruded than recessed. (This same argument has been done in a V2 thread somewhere here I imagine) and I feel like I remember people saying the V2 is recessed, but in these images the mark casts a shadow and takes light the as if it was protruded, at least to my eyes! Glad to have some experts chiming in here as well,

PoopaPapaPalps You're project has actually been a bit of an inspiration behind this as well, I really love what you've come up with so far! Regarding these milling marks, from your experience, would you say it leaves more of a concave or convex mark? Also that hilt is beautiful, looking forward to seeing the rest of your run take shape.

BRRogers I have actually gathered a size able collection of photos (here <- hopefully that's public), I just have yet to go over most of them and compare... Also I quickly learned how bad the archive book is for scaling - I initially scaled it at 29cm, then realized how very very wrong that was when trying to scale everything around that. For machining, I know I can at least get the pommel and emitter knocked out by a CNC pretty easily, but I the grenade portion has been troublesome. I've talked to a few people and they had considered it (by coming up with some unconventional ways of machining it) but the costs would be quite expensive. Casting may be the route I go for that part, however there isn't an aluminum foundry around here (at least close), so I'll figure that out once I get there!

Edit 4/10/20: Updated google drive link for reference! Click Here
 
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PoopaPapaPalps

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
You'd use a flat-end mill bit to do the channels, so it's neither concave or convex; it's just ever-so-slightly-just-a-fraction-of-a-hair off that leaves the slightest indentation. The mark on the surface would catch light differently than on the rest of the surface. If the mill bit jitters or jumps due to it being a little loose or there's too much material to hog away, it also creates a mark, which is what I think happened on the V2, which is why it seems more pronounced and "double looped" than the other marks on the V3.
 

thd9791

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I will say, I forget the pommel cube space is done in one go. that IS a lot of material, crap Is the bit like.. trapezoid shaped? (flat on the bottom, with a slanted cutting side)
 

PoopaPapaPalps

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
There are some like that but I believe they milled it with only one bit. A flat-end mill bit is just that; it's flat to make flush cuts. I don't believe they milled it in all one go, it's a bit dangerous to do so and will wear the bit down, most likely it took a few passes. Once the channels for each cube is milled, you just simply lay it over to do the angles.
 

BRRogers

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
677199CF-A330-4EF8-AD0D-67EFAA1892DB.jpeg

this is from the Hero; but should explain the milling operation.
the saber would’ve been chucked into to an indexing vice and milled in the passes using the cross slide
672F99C5-D9A9-423C-998A-11BFAB8063A8.jpeg

something like this.
 

bookface

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I just made one of these, and tried to cut the pommel cubes in one pass. It didn't do it. And that's with a carbide end mill cutting aluminium. Of course it's only a small mill drill, but it seems unlikely that they'd do it that way. Faster just to take 3 passes like I ended up doing.
 

thd9791

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
That's a great visual - I can see where some of those marks on the Hero came from like you said

A friend of mine made a V3 as like... a term project for his first machining class for me years ago and they didn't have a mill for the pommel cubes and they ended up with cubes that cut in really deep when they got to the saber body. I have no idea how they did it, but it looked like a more pronounced version of the red bit that goes too far.

I see parallel lines on the V3's pommel cubes, pointing in towards the saber - is that also the result of an orbiting bit?
 

LOM

Well-Known Member
Update time!

After some tips and looking at more reference photos - I now see that my original model was quite inaccurate compared to the real thing. Sure it looks quite like the one in the visual dictionary, but not like the real deal. This past week, I took the few dimensions that I had confirmed and pretty much remodeled the whole thing using other photos as reference material. So now I've got this new model that still needs a bit of work, mainly modeling the pommel cubes as my original one was pretty much guesswork so I'll try to do it right this time (and a few of the grenade rings seem a bit off too) Speaking of the pommel cubes, thanks everyone in here for chiming in with some info about its done! I've used lathes before, but not mills, so I had little knowledge of how this would be done, but now it makes a lot more sense (if only I had a mill to try it myself!)


Here's some pics of my new model, the seam line isn't lined up exactly to the images, but the gist of it is there. Also, I may not be able to make those awesome wire frame overlays, but I've managed to get some comparison pics using canvases in fusion!


38 V3.PNG
37 V3.PNG
36 V3.PNG
35 V3.PNG
34 V3.PNG
 

Dann

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
View attachment 1269964
this is from the Hero; but should explain the milling operation.
the saber would’ve been chucked into to an indexing vice and milled in the passes using the cross slide
View attachment 1269965
something like this.
I'm so glad Bryan made that picture with the "tool paths", it pretty much describes everything that I most likely wouldn't be able to properly describe in words.
 

LOM

Well-Known Member
The past few days I have been working on the pommel cubes.. I think I've gotten pretty close. I might do some more modding but I'm not sure how much more accurate I can get it. I still have a ways to go on the wind vane portion and a few of the grenade rings. I keep changing those parts a bit and I just haven't gotten them right yet. In other news, I'm probably going to 3d print this and toss it in Mold Max 60 and cast it in pewter. I don't have the means for aluminum casting, and Anakin Starkiller's pewter V3 looks awesome! It's probably more economical than getting it machined too.

pm geometry1.PNG
pm geometry2.PNG
310saber.PNG


Question for the milling experts here again BRRogers, Is there a reason that the left sides of the cubes are milled before the 'valley' on that diagram? I've got all of my pommel valleys to be about 60 degrees apart and it seems to line up, and wouldn't milling the valleys first be easier to get the spacing correct? I feel that would be more convenient for the original makers. PoopaPapaPalps, would you mind sharing your method for milling the cubes out too? I find all this really interesting and it makes me want to try working with a mill sometime... (might have to drive on down to my 'local' makerspace for some classes!)
 

BRRogers

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
bear in mind the diagram I shared was made to theorize the odd cutouts in the valley for the Hero.
We know it (the hero) was shaped at a different time (and solid body)
So the V3, being potentially a different time, machinist, and construction could have been produced in a different order and quality.

Model is looking good! Cubes may be just a hair of a wider OD at the face, but in the same linear position, I think the bottom of the cubes where they hit the body can adjust angle a hair towards the front of the hilt.
I think there may be a 90° cut just above the upper gear angle, which will also be related to the height and angle, and forward position.

this is one of the weirdest things in terms of modeling timeline to get. I can tell you are really close though :)
73CB87B8-C7F0-40DA-971F-05BA466FCED9.jpeg

AB9E2244-B8A6-4918-BCBA-08ABBD5E22A8.jpeg

basically trying to make the front end sharper and the cube faces stick out a bit farther, all probably within .25 - .5mm of alteration... and the gear valley will seem relatively shorter on the front than the back due to this as well.
3C121E32-0839-4DE2-A6D6-AF676790FAA5.jpeg


Granted I say all that, just to point out if you want to fiddle additionally the direction I’d go. By no means am I trying to tell you do it verbatim! You’ve already done a great job! :whistle::lol:
 
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Dann

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
The order in which you make your cuts doesn't really matter, and the cubes on the hero have those undercuts that aren't on the V3.

There are a number of ways to mill them out, but a couple simple methods would involve some collet/index blocks, or a rotary table, or dividing plates, for rotating the stock a certain number of degrees and locking it into position, before making a cut.

You're basically adding another axis to the mill table. Think of it like you're mounting a small lathe to the table (headstock and tailstock), but you can lock the headstock in the positions you need in order to make your passes.

(I'm pretty sure there's a video on YouTube of a guy doing this, but like three or four or more pommels at a time. His hilt is pretty inaccurate, but you get the idea, if you can find it)

I believe PPP uses a much simpler and more low-tech process, and I'll let him describe it!

Aha! Here's that video I was talking about!
This guy doesn't have everything squared and zeroed on his mill, though, and he screws up a couple of the pommels, iirc. He shouldn't have tried to do more than one at a time. Or, should've done a better job with the setup.
 
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