Indiana Jones 5 officially announced

[JPH]

For those few who don't know the reference....

What?! I can't use that opportunity to shamelessy plug THIS MOVIE?!?!?!

Also...

REVIEWS BY THOSE WHO HAVEN'T

Lunar Rover, LRV by Boeing and KK

RATING: TWO OUT OF FIVE STARS!!!

Lack of drink holders and robust air conditioning, an ITO (instant turn off)! Acceleration appears mushy and no audible alarm when put in reverse! Can you say "OSHA"?8

When I plan to go muddin/dirtin on the moon I anticipate being a tad parched AND expect temperature control!

KK's past ventures of the Pet Rock, Popeil Pocket Fisherman, Mr. Microphone and over-priced designer jeans, should leave any consumer skeptical.

I have spoken

 

[JPH]

...and for those wondering what is going on,

While I did enjoy Dial of Destiny, I also appreciate the folks who brought to light the warning signs that it might be crap.

We have watched our beloved Star Wars and Marvel characters become puppets for subverted expectations and woke caca-poopoo from witless writers, access-bought critics, and hype-victim fans.

So, while I am glad I walked out of Dial of Destiny *not* feeling ripped off, I APPRECIATE folks who told me about reshoots and ending changes and other red flags, not to stress me out, but rather to prepare me in case it happened AGAIN.

Because we all know, it *WILL* happen again.

 

[Captain Dunsel]

 

[Schlegel]

Wife and I saw it last weekend with the 13-year old. I could write a lot, but here's the gist for us... both agreed 5 out of 10. Mostly due to the last emotional scene. Much lower without it. Wife reported mostly feeling sad through the bulk of the movie, and she is a lifelong Harrison Ford fan. I found it lacking the the humor and fun that characterized the earlier movies, even KOTCS. Too long, scenes dragged, even action ones. Biggest writing problem, besides Indy being a complete wreck about 4 ways more than needed, is the character growth arc I can see they intended for Helena starts about 45 minutes too late. By the time she starts to grow, there's not enough time left to do it right and you already hate her now. Neither of us have seen the actress in anything before, I assume they meant her to be a charming rogue, like an Indy who's on just the other side of the law, but it didn't work for me. Came across smug and selfish and other people paid for her actions while she sailed blithely on for 95% of the movie.

Lesser writing issues appear about 1 every 5 minutes, too much to go into here, we were suddenly realizing plot problems for days later. I can forgive a limited number (hitching a ride on the OUTSIDE of a sub!) but too many is a serious problem and I think it points to a lot of on the fly or last minute changes. I really don't think filming started with a nice final draft ready.

Score, I'm sad to say we thought never let loose and soared. Little bits of Indy themes played actually too often at tiny moments. I wonder how much time Williams actually had with anything close to a finished cut to work with... it can't have been long given the reshoots.

Lots of little complaints but I've already written a longer post than I meant to. Last thing: when we got home I immediately put on Raiders, and I can't tell you how much better it made us feel. It was incomparably better.

 

[Liberance]

Score, I'm sad to say we thought never let loose and soared. Little bits of Indy themes played actually too often at tiny moments. I wonder how much time Williams actually had with anything close to a finished cut to work with... it can't have been long given the reshoots.

I gotta say, since listening to the album release these past couple of days I've come to realize that the Williams score is nicer than I first thought. My impressions were exactly the same as yours, but it does improve when listening to it in isolation.

I guess the problem is... that's not how movie soundtracks are supposed to work.

The use of old cues during the opening segment is still too much, and that particular track doesn't ever really turn into a cohesive sentence—I do have a feeling that this is probably one of the most likely examples of Williams winging it in the absence of a definitive cut. Helena's Theme is quite beautiful though, even if it doesn't really match Helena's character all that much. "Auction at Hotel L'Atlantique" sounds kind of like Tintin and it's the most playful the music ever gets. From there it's a mix of sober and reflective music with the occasional hint at Indy's theme. It's actually a good composition, however it sounds very weird for an Indiana Jones film. But that's just because of the type of film James Mangold has made.

Indiana Jones music is usually much more descriptive and vibrant. But here we get little of that. I do remember feeling like the Raiders March was out of place when it kicks in at the end of the movie, and in what world should the Raiders March feel out of place at the end of an Indiana Jones film. But yeah, I've personally come to the conclusion that this has little to do with John Williams or the quality of the soundtrack. It's just the film itself.

 

[Solo4114]

Kind of says it all…


View attachment 1716920

Hold on a second.

Does it actually say anything? Yes, reissues of old action figures aren't flying off the shelves, but...why would they? I mean, stop and think about it for a second. Who's the market here?

The market seems to be collectors with some sense of nostalgia. Beyond that, I can't imagine who they expect to be selling to. Looking at these toys, they are not remotely what kids today actually play with. So, whatever's being sold here isn't being sold on the basis of "Kids are gonna get these and actually play with them."

Moreover, kids have zero connection to Indiana Jones as a franchise, unless they've been introduced to it by their parents...and I suspect a lot of parents wouldn't do that. Like, I love the original three films, but there's no way in hell I'm showing them to my 7-year-old. Star Wars is a different story. She can handle those films, even if the Emperor kinda freaks her out. But Indy? Face-melting, heart-ripping Indy? No ****ing way. Indy films aren't appropriate for little kids.

For that matter, I don't recall the Indy toys being especially hot sellers back in the day, either. I remember a few kids had 'em, but nowhere near as many as had Star Wars or G.I. Joe or Transformers or He-Man or Dungeons & Dragons toys. I can think of, like, two kids who had Indy, the horse he rides, and maybe Toht. But everyone had a big-head Han Solo.

For that matter, I don't think kids just play with action figures as much these days. We were in target last weekend, and the toy aisles were deserted. The two dominant franchises seemed to be Barbie and Lego. Everything else was just kind of a grab bag of franchises, with none really holding dominance. There aren't brick-and-mortar toy stores, either, anymore. I was telling my kid about how there used to be Toys R Us and Kay-Bee and Lionel Kiddie City (Northeast U.S. regional chain, I think). She couldn't begin to imagine an entire store with JUST toys in it.

Bottom line: the world's different. Toys like this, I think, mean less to kids than they used to. And kids have no connection to Indy and aren't gonna develop one from this movie (from what I hear, anyway). Like, I can't imagine kids running out and picking up action figures for "The Adventures of Sad Grandpa & the Lingering Regrets."

 

[NakedMoleRat]

Hold on a second.

Does it actually say anything? Yes, reissues of old action figures aren't flying off the shelves, but...why would they? I mean, stop and think about it for a second. Who's the market here?

The market seems to be collectors with some sense of nostalgia. Beyond that, I can't imagine who they expect to be selling to. Looking at these toys, they are not remotely what kids today actually play with. So, whatever's being sold here isn't being sold on the basis of "Kids are gonna get these and actually play with them."

Moreover, kids have zero connection to Indiana Jones as a franchise, unless they've been introduced to it by their parents...and I suspect a lot of parents wouldn't do that. Like, I love the original three films, but there's no way in hell I'm showing them to my 7-year-old. Star Wars is a different story. She can handle those films, even if the Emperor kinda freaks her out. But Indy? Face-melting, heart-ripping Indy? No ****ing way. Indy films aren't appropriate for little kids.

For that matter, I don't recall the Indy toys being especially hot sellers back in the day, either. I remember a few kids had 'em, but nowhere near as many as had Star Wars or G.I. Joe or Transformers or He-Man or Dungeons & Dragons toys. I can think of, like, two kids who had Indy, the horse he rides, and maybe Toht. But everyone had a big-head Han Solo.

For that matter, I don't think kids just play with action figures as much these days. We were in target last weekend, and the toy aisles were deserted. The two dominant franchises seemed to be Barbie and Lego. Everything else was just kind of a grab bag of franchises, with none really holding dominance. There aren't brick-and-mortar toy stores, either, anymore. I was telling my kid about how there used to be Toys R Us and Kay-Bee and Lionel Kiddie City (Northeast U.S. regional chain, I think). She couldn't begin to imagine an entire store with JUST toys in it.

Bottom line: the world's different. Toys like this, I think, mean less to kids than they used to. And kids have no connection to Indy and aren't gonna develop one from this movie (from what I hear, anyway). Like, I can't imagine kids running out and picking up action figures for "The Adventures of Sad Grandpa & the Lingering Regrets."

Exactly my point. The toys are for nostalgic adult collectors.

Kind of says it all.

 

[joberg]

I’ve been twice and have thoroughly enjoyed it both times.

Raiders, Crusade, Dial, Temple, Skull

It seems that this list is what people are saying about the movie and its place among the Indy franchise.

 

[cboath]

Exactly my point. The toys are for nostalgic adult collectors.

Kind of says it all.

now, if it came with a limited edition cell phone or tablet, you'd never see one in a store

 

[Captain Dunsel]

Exactly my point. The toys are for nostalgic adult collectors.

Kind of says it all.

Yeah…there aren’t any kids running to the toy isle to buy these “old dudes in suits” with absolutely no “toyetic” value.

The collective story regarding Indiana Jones toys is a tale of “misfires”….

 

[Cephus]

Exactly my point. The toys are for nostalgic adult collectors.

Kind of says it all.

The movie was supposed to evoke feelings of nostalgia among older collectors. It failed.

 

[blewis17]

Whether one thoroughly enjoyed, tolerated, or disliked the film: Dial of Destiny has only made USD $172 million at the worldwide box office so far and receipts have been dropping. Considering that Disney/Lucasfilm was well over $400 million for production and advertising, they were needing $800 to $900 million to even HOPE to break even. This is going to be a huge financial loss for the company.

Disney has done "OK" box office wise with Guardians 3 this year, but is losing on Elemental.
Little Mermaid has over $527 million worldwide and that may be enough to make a little profit.
Ant Man 3, won't break even with a $426 million box office.
Avatar 2 was a ginormous success, but was never really a "Disney" film, that was ALL Cameron and good will from the pre-Disney days for the original film.

Is there anything to "learn" here? I'll toss out a few points
-Disney has got to get film production costs down.
-Disney needs to stop carpet-bombing theatrical releases that cannibalize each other.
-Disney needs to "slow down"
-Disney needs to SERIOUSLY RECONSIDER making any new SW films
-Franchise burn-out is a real thing

"Solo" was a big scare for the company at $393 million worldwide box office, and I believe is the only live action SW theatrical release to not make a profit at the box office.

 

[Apollo]

^ No matter what has or will be said, this Movie BOMBED big time at the Box Office and will go down in history as a complete and utter failure ^

 

[Cephus]

^ No matter what has or will be said, this Movie BOMBED big time at the Box Office and will go down in history as a complete and utter failure ^

It will go down as probably the worst failure in Disney history, if not one of the worst in all of cinema history.

 

[Lord Boron]

Yeah…there aren’t any kids running to the toy isle to buy these “old dudes in suits” with absolutely no “toyetic” value.

View attachment 1717482View attachment 1717481

The collective story regarding Indiana Jones toys is a tale of “misfires”….

Now if Marcus Brody came with laser guided missile firing jet backpack, they’re have something.

 

[cboath]

The movie was supposed to evoke feelings of nostalgia among older collectors. It failed.

As I recall the toys didn't so much with original sales dates in the 80's either.

 

[asalaw]

View attachment 1717311

View attachment 1717303

I think if Iger and Kennedy have proven anything, it's that they're allergic to making money. I also think that, The Flash aside, you probably have to go back to Heaven's Gate to find a bigger disaster. That one bankrupted United Artists and ended Michael Cimino's directing career.

And yet Kathleen Kennedy still has a job. She's an absolute barnacle.

 

[Ron]

Well said.

 

[cboath]

Whether one thoroughly enjoyed, tolerated, or disliked the film: Dial of Destiny has only made USD $172 million at the worldwide box office so far and receipts have been dropping. Considering that Disney/Lucasfilm was well over $400 million for production and advertising, they were needing $800 to $900 million to even HOPE to break even. This is going to be a huge financial loss for the company.

Disney has done "OK" box office wise with Guardians 3 this year, but is losing on Elemental.
Little Mermaid has over $527 million worldwide and that may be enough to make a little profit.
Ant Man 3, won't break even with a $426 million box office.
Avatar 2 was a ginormous success, but was never really a "Disney" film, that was ALL Cameron and good will from the pre-Disney days for the original film.

Is there anything to "learn" here? I'll toss out a few points
-Disney has got to get film production costs down.
-Disney needs to stop carpet-bombing theatrical releases that cannibalize each other.
-Disney needs to "slow down"
-Disney needs to SERIOUSLY RECONSIDER making any new SW films
-Franchise burn-out is a real thing

"Solo" was a big scare for the company at $393 million worldwide box office, and I believe is the only live action SW theatrical release to not make a profit at the box office.

I don't know that it's franchise burnout. I think it's more theater burnout. I've said before, they kill their own theater returns by moving it to streaming so damn fast. I mean, for crying out loud, it's speculated Flash will hit Max in mid/late August based on what they did with Shazam as an example. TWO FREAKING MONTHS. If you were on the fence, which most people with due to the actor's actions if nothing else, why pay to see it in a theater if you can get it in two months at home for no additional cost? We're down to TWO MONTHS. Guardians was a big hit, it's hitting DVD and streaming etc August first based on the commercial i saw last night. That's a hair short of THREE MONTHS.

The last movie I wanted to see in a theatre that i missed was Top Gun Maverick. Long story short, crap load of stuff going on at the time and I didn't have the time to see it til i was out of IMAX which, to me, was the whole point since it was shot that way. By the time I had time, even though it was out of IMAX, it was still nearly two months later. Today, it'd be nearly available at home.

You can't expect people to flock to theaters if you don't give them a reason to go to the theater. Plain and simple. Right now they're going out of their way to make you NOT go to the theater.

As far as carpet bombing goes, that's probably not all that wrong. The thing is, Disney is Disney, Lucasfilm, Pixar, Marvel, and Fox. That's five major studios. There are basically 3 major windows for movies: Christmas, May-July 4, and possibly thanks giving. So, maybe not even 3 major windows. That's maybe 10 weekends in the 'big windows'. When you're 5 major studios, you can't get stuff in the big windows without stepping on your own toes. It's not possible. And, to be fair, even if they were 5 separate companies, you'd have 5 companies fighting over the same weeks. But, the biggest factor is you need to let them play at a theater and not undercut yourself by making it available at home 8 weeks after release.

 

[NeoRutty]

Hoping that you heal up and recover quickly! That's gotta stink.

It’s been rough but there is a light at the end… as a bonus, to quote mr Ford “we’re all gonna be a lot skinnier!” Heh (from ridiculously restrictive recovery diet)