Indiana Jones 5 officially announced

Cephus said:
I've made this point before, but while I think Harrison Ford loves acting, I don't think he really gives a damn about the characters he plays. They are a vehicle to a paycheck, nothing more. When you look at Henry Cavill walking away from The Witcher because the writers hated the source material, or, more recently, Jenna Ortega pissing off the writers on Wednesday because she kept insisting that her character would never do those things, those are actors who care about the characters.

Ford has never struck me that way.
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Agreed. Ford seems to be at best, impartial, with the characters he plays. He hates Han and wanted him dead, seems impartial with Indy, and also seemed ok with Decker.

I also suspect Ford knows that due tot he fact that these characters are popular, there will always be demand for more movies with them and thus him in the role and while Ford may love acting, he is probably sick of playing these young suave action heroes when he himself is no longer young. He may have wanted to show Indy as old as a message to fans, saying I’m too old now so please don’t ask for more Indy and if you want it to continue, please accept the new actor instead.

CopperRevan said:
" Spend $35 at Applebee’s and get a free ticket to Indy 5!!! Spend $ 70 at Applebee’s and get 2 free tickets to Indy 5...wait, that's not all...spend $105 at $ Applebee’s and get...yep, you guessed it! 3 free tickets!!!" Wow, I'm glad Applebee’s does the math for us because the movie itself won't add up.

Imagine if it was Taco Bell promoting it...everyone would be in the toilet along with the movie.
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I do sometimes feel like I’m the only person in the world who actually likes Taco Bell. Actually tried it first to get stuff during the Batman Forever campaign lol. I guess that movie really was bad for me.

Gregatron said:
Call me crazy, but nerd culture (and entertainment in general) wasn't a toxic stew of creative bankruptcy, political ideology, and outrage marketing, back in 2008.

Times have changed. And not for the better.
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I think this is looking back with rose tinted glasses. Nerd culture has always been toxic among a small part although I think that “toxicity” has increased because more normies have entered the that pop culture and then tried to change it to better suit them instead of adjusting to the thing itself (like how DnD is now racist oh my god).

Psab keel said:
Ultimately it's the studio who is responsible for a movie's success or failure. This constant blame shifting towards the audience is one of the major differences between the poor reception of films of the past and the films of today. Back in the day if a movie tanked, the studio shifted to try and learn from their mistakes and fans would move on with their lives. Today if things go south, the directors/ actors take to social media and blame "toxic" fans, effectively losing any sense of professionalism or credibility when the reality is that they did a bad job telling their story.

Blame it on social media. Blame it on YouTube content creators. Blame it on "toxic" fans. "Woke culture." Russian bots. Sexists. Mysogonists, Racists, Homophobes, Transphobes. You name it, they'll find fault with anyone other than themselves in order to deflect any type of criticism, even if that criticism is completely logical or legitimate. It's the lack of accountability and the constant projection of the studio's failures to connect with their audience that is to blame. STOP BLAMING THE AUDIENCE. That goes for studios and likewise the fans. If you don't like what these studios produce, stop watching and stop paying for it. Vote with your wallet. Have enough integrity to live out your convictions.

This is why movies aren't fun anymore. This is why fans who have followed certain franchises their entire adult lives are fed up with the mediocre crap being pumped out of Hollywood. This is why the constant politicization of mainstream films (right leaning or left leaning) needs to die a horrible death. Studios need to tell stories that have universal appeal and start remembering the things that unite us. Not divide us. If the movie is part of a larger franchise, remember to stop making it about one director or writer's ego and that their efforts are to serve the story, not have the story/ audience serve them.

Rant over.
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Honestly one of the reasons why I respect Joel Schumacher. Yes, he made one of the worst Batman movies of all time with Batman and Robin which killed the franchise for a good while but in the DVD commentary, it’s basically an apology message to the fans. He accepts the blame and criticism because “he is the director.” You may not love his movies but you got to respect that attitude. Phone Booth was also an awesome movie.
 
HeartBlade said:
I think this is looking back with rose tinted glasses. Nerd culture has always been toxic among a small part although I think that “toxicity” has increased because more normies have entered the that pop culture and then tried to change it to better suit them instead of adjusting to the thing itself (like how DnD is now racist oh my god).
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No, I’m pretty sure that, back in the day, fans mostly just argued about things like the acting in the prequels and retcons like Qui-Gon training Obi-Wan.

Instead of, y’know, calling each other bigots and Nazis and wishing death upon each other for expressing differing opinions.
 
Gregatron said:
No, I’m pretty sure that, back in the day, fans mostly just argued about things like the acting in the prequels and retcons like Qui-Gon training Obi-Wan.

Instead of, y’know, calling each other bigots and Nazis and wishing death upon each other for expressing differing opinions.
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I don't remember anything like that back in the 70s and 80s. Yes, there were people who disagreed with each other, but it never turned to threats of actual, real-world violence.
 
Cephus said:
I don't remember anything like that back in the 70s and 80s. Yes, there were people who disagreed with each other, but it never turned to threats of actual, real-world violence.
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The only grievances, I remembered, were religious groups protesting the release of Caligula. Other than that, no call for violence or bad mouthing. Pretty civilized. :cool:
 
Now admittedly it is not exactly about fandoms in terms of films etc, but there is a danger of forgetting that many things aren't new.

In the 70's/80's in England you could be likely to get beaten up at a football game, simply because you were wearing a football shirt. Even more recently in Scotland, wearing a Rangers or Celtic shirt in the same city could cause you grief.

There were moral panics about D+D, Heavy metal music, and later on book burnings of JK Rowling's Harry Potter books.

It was also a real possibility here in the UK that you could be blown up, kidnapped, tortured and/or killed, for simply believing one type of christianity over another.

Now what's my point?
Well it is this. It's very easy to think some of the stuff going on today is new, but it isn't. It's just new to some who my previous examples never affected, and unfortunately it is now massively amplified due to the internet.
 
Yeah, I'm not defending the fridge scene, as I thought it was pretty lame. But my kid sent me the link to that video as possible vindication for Lucas/Spielberg.

For the record, my family and I won't be watching Indy 5. I've seen/heard enough to know that it's not a well written continuation of Indy's legacy.
 
Cephus said:
Avatar, which is just mindless CGI porn and it proves just how dumb the movie-going audience is today.
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the Avatar films are an amazing example of how modern cinema really is almost a disposable product.

Despite making tons of money, the Avatar films have almost “zero” culture impact…there is hardly any sustainable and large-scale merchandise…no theme park rides at Disneyland / Disneyworld…no ongoing spin-offs, books, cartoons, extended universe, etc.
 
Gregatron said:
No, I’m pretty sure that, back in the day, fans mostly just argued about things like the acting in the prequels and retcons like Qui-Gon training Obi-Wan.

Instead of, y’know, calling each other bigots and Nazis and wishing death upon each other for expressing differing opinions.
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I partly agree and disagree. There were protests like George Lucas killed/r*ped my childhood with the release of the prequels to the point that there was a documentary on it and there has always been an element of toxicity. I agree that the toxicity has been amplified now more than before though.

I think its because of 2 reasons. One is just the internet bringing in more voices and amplifying extremes which makes the toxic voices come to the forefront. The outspoken hardcore fans speak up more while the less concerned just dont bother. I think this is just normal stuff though and a part from fandom.

The new and worse aspect that breeds this toxicity is the animosity from the creators imo. There does seem to be this vested interest by Hollywood to mock and belittle the IPs the fans love, like Hollywood takes a sick pleasure from ruining stories and making people pay for them. This isnt exclusive to Star Wars. Terminator killed off John Connor (savior of humanity whose survival is the reason why the terminator series exists in the first place) to replace with some Mexican lady. Luke killed and replaced with a British lady (and now the same with Indy apparently). Dr. Who became a woman and completely rewrote the origin story. Velma removing the dog Scooby Doo and making the entire cast toxic dicks to each other as opposed to friends.

There seems to be this pleasure by the creator to not only twist the original IP but completely mangle it to the point where it becomes unrecognizable and when the fans (rightfully) protest, they are called racist/sexist/homophobic/etc. for disagreeing with this vision. If creatives want to stick with the original vision (Cavil in the Witcher, Ortega in Wednesday/Addams Family) they are also criticized as being “difficult” aka they are not falling in with the party line so cast them out of the industry.

This is completely driven by Hollywood itself and is probably why people are more “toxic” in an action-oriented way. Disagreeing about character development is a matter of opinion but being told you are an innately bad person if you dont spend money on our bad products definitely riles people up. You didnt really hear about people not lining a movie as racist before Hollywood themselves casted the first stone and made it the word of choice to defend their movies.

Not sure if it was this thread but when someone mocked people for not going to see the new Little Mermaid. Maybe its not because she is Black that people arnt going but because people dont want to see another bad live action remake.
 
HeartBlade said:
I partly agree and disagree. There were protests like George Lucas killed/r*ped my childhood with the release of the prequels to the point that there was a documentary on it and there has always been an element of toxicity. I agree that the toxicity has been amplified now more than before though.

I think its because of 2 reasons. One is just the internet bringing in more voices and amplifying extremes which makes the toxic voices come to the forefront. The outspoken hardcore fans speak up more while the less concerned just dont bother. I think this is just normal stuff though and a part from fandom.

The new and worse aspect that breeds this toxicity is the animosity from the creators imo. There does seem to be this vested interest by Hollywood to mock and belittle the IPs the fans love, like Hollywood takes a sick pleasure from ruining stories and making people pay for them. This isnt exclusive to Star Wars. Terminator killed off John Connor (savior of humanity whose survival is the reason why the terminator series exists in the first place) to replace with some Mexican lady. Luke killed and replaced with a British lady (and now the same with Indy apparently). Dr. Who became a woman and completely rewrote the origin story. Velma removing the dog Scooby Doo and making the entire cast toxic dicks to each other as opposed to friends.

There seems to be this pleasure by the creator to not only twist the original IP but completely mangle it to the point where it becomes unrecognizable and when the fans (rightfully) protest, they are called racist/sexist/homophobic/etc. for disagreeing with this vision. If creatives want to stick with the original vision (Cavil in the Witcher, Ortega in Wednesday/Addams Family) they are also criticized as being “difficult” aka they are not falling in with the party line so cast them out of the industry.

This is completely driven by Hollywood itself and is probably why people are more “toxic” in an action-oriented way. Disagreeing about character development is a matter of opinion but being told you are an innately bad person if you dont spend money on our bad products definitely riles people up. You didnt really hear about people not lining a movie as racist before Hollywood themselves casted the first stone and made it the word of choice to defend their movies.

Not sure if it was this thread but when someone mocked people for not going to see the new Little Mermaid. Maybe its not because she is Black that people arnt going but because people dont want to see another bad live action remake.
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Mind you, I'm not saying there weren't rough patches, back in the day, but that today's utter lack of civility and the all-out-war between fans and studios is a whole different ballgame.

The arguments over the prequels were a schoolyard brawl compared to the vile behavior, doxxings, etc. that we see now. And social media has a lot to do with that.
 
ALLEY said:
the Avatar films are an amazing example of how modern cinema really is almost a disposable product.

Despite making tons of money, the Avatar films have almost “zero” culture impact…there is hardly any sustainable and large-scale merchandise…no theme park rides at Disneyland / Disneyworld…no ongoing spin-offs, books, cartoons, extended universe, etc.
Click to expand...
By the time the movie was over, I didn't even remember what the hell had happened. It was a complete waste of my time.
 
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