How Star Wars exists for me now...

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HMSwolfe

Sr Member
It's odd to me that people are more than willing to voice disdain for Disney's rather than Lucasfilm for the failures of managing the SW franchise, but will generally heap praise on Marvel, not Disney for the success of that one.
I think it’s partially because the “MCU” technically started outside of Disney, and was purchased, whereas all of the new Star Wars content (barring the prequels) has been under Disney’s wing. Also, they are starting to wreck the MCU as well.

Actually, when Disney bought SW and a bunch of people jumped on the bandwagon saying “it’ll be bad because Disney is making it”, I defended Disney using Marvel as an example of them being capable of delivering. Sad times that I have to go back on my words.

Edit: not to mention, when Disney bought Marvel, it came with a strong leader with a vision, Kevin Feige. The foundation had been laid and the leader knew how to lead. There was no “first new SW film” like Iron Man to set the stage well before the suits got involved, and Kathleen Kennedy is a terrible leader. She might be a good producer in other aspects, I don’t know, but she has no idea about story, planning, audience engagement, reading the room, not putting her foot in her mouth, standing up to Bob Iger and his Disney cronies, etc.
 
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BTTUK

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Which for me just makes it clearer, that the majority of the issues stem directly from Lucasfilm, rather than Disney. As the overwhelming majority of good came from Marvel rather than Disney.

Like I said, the apportioning of blame in anything always seems to work its way up, whereas the opposite isn't always true.

It's also possible i've been listening to Jocko Willink far too much :)
 

Usagi Pilgrim

Sr Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Which for me just makes it clearer, that the majority of the issues stem directly from Lucasfilm, rather than Disney. As the overwhelming majority of good came from Marvel rather than Disney.

Like I said, the apportioning of blame in anything always seems to work its way up, whereas the opposite isn't always true.

It's also possible i've been listening to Jocko Willink far too much :)
Had to quote you for 2 reasons...

1. I agree with you.

2. I just discovered Jocko yesterday.

I woke up at 5 this morning as a result.

Lol
 

Cephus

Sr Member
It's odd to me that people are more than willing to voice disdain for Disney's rather than Lucasfilm for the failures of managing the SW franchise, but will generally heap praise on Marvel, not Disney for the success of that one.

I think the prequels are trash, they're just not AS trashy as the crap Disney is slinging. At least Lucas didn't have an ulterior motive for making the prequels, as misguided as they were. Disney and Kathleen Kennedy absolutely do.

I think it’s partially because the “MCU” technically started outside of Disney, and was purchased, whereas all of the new Star Wars content (barring the prequels) has been under Disney’s wing. Also, they are starting to wreck the MCU as well.

That's very much the case and why I've signed off the Marvel train. I haven't much cared about anything they've done in a while now, I hated Endgame and frankly, I don't care what they do in the future. Putting the new movies up against 2008's Iron Man shows just how far they've fallen. I have no interest in them anymore.
 

Bigdaddy

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
Which for me just makes it clearer, that the majority of the issues stem directly from Lucasfilm, rather than Disney. As the overwhelming majority of good came from Marvel rather than Disney.
Disney owns both of them so it seems like semantics to me... LFL/Disney = Chevy/General Motors, Marvel/Disney = Cadillac/ General Motors.

Personally I think the Disney corp has fallen away from being the leader in creative family friendly entertainment they used to be. I was excited when they took over SW, I figured they've got the money and access to talent to really make this great! Sadly, I was disappointed with the result.
Obviously Disney as a company approves of what Lucasfilm has and is doing, making massive amounts of money. It's just that both companies seem to be devoid of a cohesive creative vision for the SW universe.
Plotting out and executing a fine meal is difficult, especially when you are trying to appeal to a wide range of appetites. It's a lot easier, cheaper and less risky to just get everyone McDonald's. Some people that were expecting steak might be disappointed but the majority will gobble up the cheap burgers and ask for more. This is actually a sound business practice, it just doesn't foster originality or creativity.
It's a capitalist world, so it seems unrealistic to expect corporations that exist solely to acquire more capital to make decisions risking a lower rate of return in order to preserve "artistic integrity" or push some perceived "agenda".
The OT was a massive financial risk at the time, Lucas was a "crazy kid" for even attempting to get it made! It was about a creative vision he had, he didn't do it for free but he didn't expect to become wealthy from it either. Taking everything he got from each film and putting it into the next one. I just don't see a committee at any publicly traded company taking risks like that. Frankly, if I was a shareholder hoping to retire from the stock profits, I wouldn't want them to.
 

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ALLEY

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
I pondered long and hard on this question.

How does Star Wars exist for me now...

I guess my answer is, Star Wars exists for me in a blu ray case, on a shelf, in a bookcase, in my office.

Oh, it also exists for me on Disney + ...you know, since I am 10 times out of 10 too lazy to drop discs in the player to watch it. Say what you will about the virtues of owning physical media, but the use of it has now fallen into the ever expanding realm of the PITA.

;)
 
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CT1138

Sr Member
Disney owns both of them so it seems like semantics to me... LFL/Disney = Chevy/General Motors, Marvel/Disney = Cadillac/ General Motors.
At the same time, I would not deride a Cadillac sedan as just another in the Chevy sedan lineup. They're clearly on different levels of quality regardless of who's name is on the factory worker's paycheck.

Personally I think the Disney corp has fallen away from being the leader in creative family friendly entertainment they used to be. I was excited when they took over SW, I figured they've got the money and access to talent to really make this great! Sadly, I was disappointed with the result.
The greatest lie Disney had ever told is they they're the leader in creative family friendly entertainment. Disney has never been creative nor family friendly. Just about everybody in their original Disney Princess line up produced in the "Disney Golden" era was a bastardized, G-rated version of one Brothers Grimm tale or another. The majority of their movies are derived from old books, or other public domain works that the copyright had either long expired on, or were never copyrighted in the first place. They then take that work, water it down so it's just recognizable enough to where they're able copyright it, and then continuously rerelease that content to ensure their copyright on previously public domain material never runs out. This isn't even going into how old Walt basically enslaved Adriana Caselotti, the original voice of Snow White, so that she could only ever work for Disney for the rest of her life.

One could argue that their Michael Eisner years saw the most creation of original content, with innovative and risky original animations like Toy Story and The Lion King. All Bob Iger has done is do what made Disney successful in the first place: the hollow consumption of property after property, ensuring eventual monopolization and that stock portfolios come before anything else.
 

Bigdaddy

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
At the same time, I would not deride a Cadillac sedan as just another in the Chevy sedan lineup. They're clearly on different levels of quality regardless of who's name is on the factory worker's paycheck.

The greatest lie Disney had ever told is they they're the leader in creative family friendly entertainment. Disney has never been creative nor family friendly. Just about everybody in their original Disney Princess line up produced in the "Disney Golden" era was a bastardized, G-rated version of one Brothers Grimm tale or another. The majority of their movies are derived from old books, or other public domain works that the copyright had either long expired on, or were never copyrighted in the first place. They then take that work, water it down so it's just recognizable enough to where they're able copyright it, and then continuously rerelease that content to ensure their copyright on previously public domain material never runs out. This isn't even going into how old Walt basically enslaved Adriana Caselotti, the original voice of Snow White, so that she could only ever work for Disney for the rest of her life.

One could argue that their Michael Eisner years saw the most creation of original content, with innovative and risky original animations like Toy Story and The Lion King. All Bob Iger has done is do what made Disney successful in the first place: the hollow consumption of property after property, ensuring eventual monopolization and that stock portfolios come before anything else.
I wasn't equating Chevy's and Caddy's as the same thing, I purposely chose to use two clearly defined levels of quality coming from the same company. My point was that LFL= Disney just like Marvel = Disney. So putting the "blame" for DSW on LFL instead of Disney is just arguing semantics.

I won't dispute your position on Disney's business practices over the years being centered around maximizing profits, however I don't think it makes their early endeavors void of creativity. A tremendous amount of talented creative people worked on the "classic" Disney films, shows and parks. The way the fairytale films were changed or "bastardized" was creative in itself, so were the designs, music, animation, etc. I don't think adapting previously written works means uncreative.
Regardless of how business was conducted over the company's history, I still think they were the leader in creative family friendly entertainment for decades.
I think Lion King was the last film I enjoyed from them, I liked the first Toy Story and The Incredibles but that was Pixar before Disney
acquired the company.
 

HMSwolfe

Sr Member
Yeah, it’s a business. That much is obvious. They have always wanted to be successful. The difference is in the culture that they promote. Once upon a time, they had shared goals of making tons of money while also making magic for new generations. Once Iger became CEO, that changed. He ended the creativity culture that existed at Disney. He applied his no-nonsense, cutthroat business practices he’d learned from his time at ABC. The desire to put a little bit of magic into the world has gone out from Disney. Now they want market power and franchises and billion dollar box-office profits every go-around. That’s why, regardless of how many problems might also exist at Lucasfilm (and there are plenty), I see this as a “Disney” problem and not a “Lucasfilm” problem.
 

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PumpkinKing

Active Member
Does anybody, even a single person, think that Disney made Star Wars better? If anybody has this belief or knows of somebody who does, please let me know and elaborate...
 

Laspector

Master Member
Well, not better by any means, but I am not one of these people that think the Disney stuff is all garbage. Not going to lie, I can sit through the ST easier than I can the Prequels. Sometimes, if the prequels are on tv, I'll put them on for background noise, or better yet, just for background visuals. If the volume is up I just can't deal with it. I don't care what argument you make, those movies are just bad. You can say that they have coherent story, whatever. They are just no fun to watch, or should I say, listen to.

Don't get me wrong, the ST has all kinds of problems, but the fact is, I can't remember the last time I actually sat down and watched a Star Wars movie, any of them. I mean, actually sat on the couch, turned out the lights, popped some popcorn, and actually watched any of them. For me, all of them are just background filler while I am working on a project. The OT and the PT, I can recite line for line of dialogue verbatim. I know every single shot. The ST, maybe less, but I've actually watched all 3 several times, but still, no ST movie is something I pull out to actually sit down and watch.

I watched the last season of Clone Wars, just to see what happened. Can't imagine ever watching it again. Rogue One, loved it!! But now, as the others, just background noise.

Mandalorian.....well, that's different. I watched it as it came out and love the Gallery episodes. Also, gave it a second binge watch and will probably do another one before season 2 starts....after that, I dunno.
 

Cephus

Sr Member
Don't get me wrong, the ST has all kinds of problems, but the fact is, I can't remember the last time I actually sat down and watched a Star Wars movie, any of them. I mean, actually sat on the couch, turned out the lights, popped some popcorn, and actually watched any of them. For me, all of them are just background filler while I am working on a project. The OT and the PT, I can recite line for line of dialogue verbatim. I know every single shot. The ST, maybe less, but I've actually watched all 3 several times, but still, no ST movie is something I pull out to actually sit down and watch.

My wife and I watch the original three at least once a year. We've seen the ST once each and that's plenty. Haven't watched any of the prequel movies probably since they came out. It doesn't matter if we can quote the entire movie, we watch them because they're good, unlike the crap that Disney is putting out.
 

HMSwolfe

Sr Member
I had the opportunity recently to watch the despecialized ROTJ for the first time in my life, and I also rewatched ESB (on D+) for the 40th anniversary. The OT, whatever flaws they might have, stand the test of time through the strength of their narratives and characters. Simple, uncluttered, and void of the colossal self-importance that a lot of these modern blockbusters have. Time will wear away the faddish rekindled love for the prequels, and the ST will probably be retconned sooner or later anyway. But the OT are influential films that greatly impacted popular culture and the landscape of cinema forever.
 

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Psab keel

Master Member
RPF PREMIUM MEMBER
If you get your hands on 4k77 and 4k83 you will not be disappointed. Just approach them as if you've never seen or even heard of Star Wars before and it's like hitting the reset button on your brain. You'll feel like a kid again and just enjoy the film's as films. As Yoda says, you must unlearn what you have learned. Forget everything else when it comes to additional material and just enjoy that trilogy. It's so liberating.

I agree wholeheartedly with you too. The new found respect for the prequels seems to be a fad and while I do have massive respect for George because of the impact of his technical achievements in creating them, as films they are simply not good. They may have had an overarching plot unlike the ST but it certainly doesn't excuse sloppy writing on George's part.

Maybe that's the root of the problem being such hardcover fans of this series. We tend to forget to look at them ultimately for what they are, as movies.
 
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HMSwolfe

Sr Member
If you get your hands on 4k77 and 4k83 you will not be disappointed. Just approach them as if you've never seen or even heard of Star Wars before and it's like hitting the reset button on your brain. You'll feel like a kid again and just enjoy the film's as films. As Yoda says, you must unlearn what you have learned. Forget everything else when it comes to additional material and just enjoy that trilogy. It's so liberating.

I agree wholeheartedly with you too. The new found respect for the prequels seems to be a fad and while I do have massive respect for George because of the impact of his technical achievements in creating them, as films they are simply not good. They may have had an overarching plot unlike the ST but it certainly doesn't excuse sloppy writing on George's part.

Maybe that's the root of the problem being such hardcover fans of this series. We tend to forget to look at them ultimately for what they are, as movies.
I’ve kind of stopped being a fan of series and franchises in general. Now I am just a fan of good movies/stories.
 

vader45

Sr Member
While I own all of the film's on official blu rays, only for completest sakes, my Despecialized editions get the most playback. I don't remember when I watched any of the others out side of TROS, that was just released.

I'm waiting on 4K80 before I buy the other 2.
 

CT1138

Sr Member
If you get your hands on 4k77 and 4k83 you will not be disappointed. Just approach them as if you've never seen or even heard of Star Wars before and it's like hitting the reset button on your brain. You'll feel like a kid again and just enjoy the film's as films. As Yoda says, you must unlearn what you have learned. Forget everything else when it comes to additional material and just enjoy that trilogy. It's so liberating.
That's how I felt when I watched them. Childhood memories of me sitting in front of a 32 inch box TV with a can of Pringles came flooding back.
 

DARTH ANIBAL

Sr Member
That's how I felt when I watched them. Childhood memories of me sitting in front of a 32 inch box TV with a can of Pringles came flooding back.
32-inch?! o_O

RichBTTF.gif


Until I went into the military and bought myself a big, ol' 19-incher (that I bought with my first line of credit and was still paying for 3 years later >.<), ROTJ was the only one I saw in theaters, so I hadn't seen Star Wars and ESB on anything larger than a 12-inch.
 

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