GHOSTBUSTERS Pre-Release - film discussion only, no social commentary please!

the LEVEL of negativity is bonkers..

I think the level of negativity reflects two elements: the love and respect people have for this franchise and the lack of love & respect the studio has shown it in executing this. It really does look awful, and we know from the emails which weren't intended for public consumption and from first-hand accounts from production how little thought went into the approach.

For as long as I can remember, the majority of fans of properties like these have collectively ignored the warning signs when a film like this is queued up. They'd hope beyond hope that they'll be happily surprised in the theater, and sometimes it'd take months or years for them to come to terms with just how much they really disliked the garbage they'd been served (Phantom Menace, anyone?). This is the first time I've seen the seesaw shift to the other side in a significant way - the fandom has caught on to the game and they're sick of it. Finally, finally, we might see filmgoers vote with their wallets and demonstrate to the studio that we want a more thoughtful, artful product. We reject the process that brought this movie about, and we reject the final product. We recognize that it's a business first for the studio, and we need to show them that good filmmaking and respect for your audience equates to good business.
 
Some of the negative discussion is thoughtful. Some of it.

I think most people aren't saying you can't DISLIKE something (or pre-judge as you say) before you see or research the movie but the LEVEL of negativity is bonkers.

I think the level of negativity reflects two elements: the love and respect people have for this franchise and the lack of love & respect the studio has shown it in executing this. It really does look awful, and we know from the emails which weren't intended for public consumption and from first-hand accounts from production how little thought went into the approach.

For as long as I can remember, the majority of fans of properties like these have collectively ignored the warning signs when a film like this is queued up. They'd hope beyond hope that they'll be happily surprised in the theater, and sometimes it'd take months or years for them to come to terms with just how much they really disliked the garbage they'd been served (Phantom Menace, anyone?). This is the first time I've seen the seesaw shift to the other side in a significant way - the fandom has caught on to the game and they're sick of it. Finally, finally, we might see filmgoers vote with their wallets and demonstrate to the studio that we want a more thoughtful, artful product. We reject the process that brought this movie about, and we reject the final product. We recognize that it's a business first for the studio, and we need to show them that good filmmaking and respect for your audience equates to good business.

Yeah, pretty much this.

Well, that and the symbiotic (antibiotic?) relationship between the "pro" and "con" fans and their various respective thinkpieces.


I think the level of negativity is due to the factors Westies points out, but it's also due to the back-and-forth sniping and all of the various pieces that essentially try to dismiss some fans' legitimate concerns by waiving them off as merely sexist.

The AVClub piece, for example, basically just said "It's been pretty well proven that if you don't like this film, it's because you're sexist," and then just moved on to a discussion of fan "ownership." Much like Devin's piece, it wasn't really interested in engaging with the actual substantive criticisms, and instead preferred to just dismiss all criticism as rooted in either sexism or juvenile fan entitlement. So it's either "Well, you're all just sexist" or "well, you're all just whiny crybabies who need to grow up."


And in a way, that kind of is saying that you "aren't allowed" to dislike the film before having seen it. We've seen plenty of that "OMG, why don't you watch it first and then criticize it?" response. (Along with other lazy responses like "OMG it's not like you can't still watch the old version," etc., which miss the point entirely.) Those kinds of criticisms, along with the "Everyone who hates it is just a sexist manbaby" responses effectively de-legitimize any notion that someone can look at the film, its production history, its background, the leaks that have popped up here and there, and even watch the trailer and say "Wow. That looks/sounds dumb."

This is a bulls**t notion that Hollywood has planted in people's brains: you have to watch the film before you can "legitimately" criticize it.

*****, what a ******* argument. You might as well drink spoiled milk just because the surface doesn't look lumpy. Hey, don't mind the smell or the fact that the date on the carton is from last month. How can you know if the milk has spoiled until you drink it? Besides, the surface looks ok, right? Give it a chance. Or are you an ANTI-DAIRYIST?!?!?!
 
I think the level of negativity reflects two elements: the love and respect people have for this franchise and the lack of love & respect the studio has shown it in executing this.
I have an enormous amount of both love and respect for Ghostbusters. A studio mishandling a property isn't something new.

I can understand some general complaining here and there, but it's devolved into a joke. One can adjust their expectations and move on-- or spew vitriolic hate for months on end. If the press gets wind of fans constantly complaining and whining about a movie, no matter how large the segment of the overall fandom, you're darn tootin' they're going to latch on to it and milk it. Not only is it excellent cannon fodder for hits, but it's interesting AND funny subject matter to boot. Getting called out shouldn't be a shock to anyone overly hating on the reboot. Squeaky wheel/grease. It's doing nothing but reinforcing stereotypes-- anti-women, fan entitlement, whatever. :lol

Finally, finally, we might see filmgoers vote with their wallets and demonstrate to the studio that we want a more thoughtful, artful product. We reject the process that brought this movie about, and we reject the final product. We recognize that it's a business first for the studio, and we need to show them that good filmmaking and respect for your audience equates to good business.
As for rejecting the process that brought the reboot, the development and production of the original GB films weren't exactly cookies and cream. Not even close. Using the leaked emails as a justification of hating the movie-- I don't get it. While I'm not going to argue that it was an interesting glimpse, it was all ENTIRELY out of context. Big-budget tentpole films are a huge industry with hundreds of millions of dollars AND careers at stake. Not to mention, it's primarily a creative field, so you have egos and tempers to deal with. Now plug in the fact that the property at hand basically engrained in pop culture. That's a LOT of pressure. The emails actually seemed pretty tame compared to what I was expecting.

...but I agree, vote with your wallet. Go for it. I agree, it's the best way if you aren't satisfied with the product we're getting. Needlessly, endlessly complaining online isn't going to help what angers you. This stuff is supposed to be fun. We aren't crazy sports fans here. :lol
 
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*****, what a ******* argument. You might as well drink spoiled milk just because the surface doesn't look lumpy. Hey, don't mind the smell or the fact that the date on the carton is from last month. How can you know if the milk has spoiled until you drink it? Besides, the surface looks ok, right? Give it a chance. Or are you an ANTI-DAIRYIST?!?!?!

careful, you're starting to sound a little whiny there, man. ;o). (see what I snarkily did there? ;o))

maybe the reason we are seeing such an insane response from both sides is because people are finally starting to stand up for what they want to see in these franchises, and not accepting what hollywood shoves down their gullet. that drives the people who are more open to accepting different things to respond in kind, and boom, instant culture war of purists versus casualists...

add in all these click bait articles into the mess, firing both people up and people start going bonkers.

Only thing I can figure out.
 
This is a bulls**t notion that Hollywood has planted in people's brains: you have to watch the film before you can "legitimately" criticize it.

*****, what a ******* argument. You might as well drink spoiled milk just because the surface doesn't look lumpy. Hey, don't mind the smell or the fact that the date on the carton is from last month. How can you know if the milk has spoiled until you drink it? Besides, the surface looks ok, right? Give it a chance. Or are you an ANTI-DAIRYIST?!?!?!
True, but would you complain about the milk for months on end once you realized it wasn't what you had in mind? Personally, I would trash it then move on with my day.
 
Not to anyone in particular:

It's weird for anyone reading about or discussing the film online from either side of the debate to suggest that anyone else shouldn't be discussing it, or should only discuss it a certain amount before moving on, or anything of the sort. Especially on the sites where these conversations tend to happen. I'd be surprised if this film wasn't being hotly debated, but not as surprised as I am to see members of movie prop sites suggesting that other members care too much about their favorite movies. Is this not expected? There's really nothing wrong with it. This industry interests me. The pre-production, production, post-production and marketing are all of interest to me (personally and professionally). Like many here, I love to analyze the process and the final product. This debate is not some weird extension of a hobby which we've taken too far - this debate is, in and of itself, a hobby. Why people think it makes sense to join the discussion to declare that it shouldn't exist, or should only exist at 60% or 73% of its current scale, is truly bizarre. Sony will be just fine, unfortunately. They don't need rescuing!
 
Part of the issue with this reboot is that Sony took more of a "throwaway remake" attitude with a franchise that has enough fanbase to justify a "respecftful homage reboot".

This new GB movie doesn't look amazingly awful. It's not Plan 9 from Outer Space. But it looks like the Green Hornet or Starsky & Hutch remakes when it should have looked more like The Force Awakens.


Yeah, they're appealing to girls this time, yada yada. There is some truth in that viewpoint now. In the second half of the project's development Sony has realized the size of the fanbase for the franchise they were crapping on. And they have realized how much potential a decent female-oriented GB could have.

But they didn't originally choose Feig & McCarthy for this because they wanted to send girls a quality show & decent message like Disney's Frozen. (Although McCarthy & the cast themselves apparently wanted to aim higher, hence the friction during production.) It was designed as a crap-fest and now Sony is trying to make it more respectable too late in the game.
 
But they didn't originally choose Feig & McCarthy for this because they wanted to send girls a quality show & decent message like Disney's Frozen. (Although McCarthy & the cast themselves apparently wanted to aim higher, hence the friction during production.) It was designed as a crap-fest and now Sony is trying to make it more respectable too late in the game.


I still wonder if sony had any idea what was going on until it was too late. I think this is all 70% on pascal, and sony not caring enough to stop in and do something about it.
Somehow, Pascal took control of ghostbusters, used it to further her goals, and by the time sony figured it out after her fire was when Chris Pratt came a calling. by then it was too late to do anything about it and they where already starting to think about damage control (as shown in the sony emails with how they could possibly denounce feig without looking bad)

but hold on, I have a feeling I was told my limits of posts had been reached, and I need to take a break. despite being on a prop site where people obsess about the littlest of details on a flash gordon model from the 30s, because, well, this is what we do. have fun dissecting every little detail ;o)
 
Here is a cool GB billboard outside of the Ghost Corps office!
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Not to anyone in particular:...
I may be absolutely nuts here, but I imagine social media and message boards just like I do having face-to-face conversations. If I'm with a pal at a bar and they continuously complain about the same thing over and over, for months on end, I'm for sure going to call them out on it. I would definitely expect them do call me out on it. Constant negativity and vitriol is annoying and people generally don't like to hear it... not to mention, it makes for bad conversation.

No one is saying stop discussing the reboot. This is a discussion board! It's the endless, mindless complaining about every little nugget with zero context that gets old. Very old. I would love to have a really cool GB thread to creatively critique things, but this thread feels more like a childhood playground at times. There's a pretty large divide in discussing movie production and making fun of crew member names. Not only is it annoying, it's giving the entire blogosphere primo cannon fodder for painting GB fans in a bad light. It's not just the misogyny anymore. Fan entitlement is being called out, and rightfully so! Some of it is justified, some not, but the constant complaining and whining and foot stomping isn't helping the situation any. The constant barrage of negativity is doing nothing but justifying bad stereotypes against our hobby.

I've been toying around with making a fake cable news show out of a portion of this thread. A bunch of political-turned-movie commentators going back and forth.

...and Westies14, if you dig pre-production/development/history/industry stuff with GB/GB2, there's quite a bit of conversation on those exact subjects at GBFans. While those aren't the most popular topics, there's a small band of us that love diving head-first into movie industry archaeology!
 
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True, but would you complain about the milk for months on end once you realized it wasn't what you had in mind? Personally, I would trash it then move on with my day.

Maybe. Particularly if I was pissed at the store where I got it, and particularly if this was the umpteenth carton of milk that had been sold to me rotten and, when I point out this fact, a ton of people say "Oh come on, just try it. How can you know it's rotten until you try?" as if I haven't already bought rotten milk from this same store plenty of times.

And yeah, eventually I stop shopping there, but when I hear news that "Store Sells New Milk!" and the pictures all clearly show lumps in the milk but people are still saying "You just have to give it a chance! I like lumpy milk!" then you might well find me sitting around discussing how it's criminal that this store keeps getting away with selling rotten milk and how stupid it sounds when people tell me I'm not allowed to judge the milk until I taste it.



Also, as has been noted, you're just as implicated in the whole discussion as everyone else, if you keep checking in and saying "You know, it's enough now. You should really stop complaining in this complaint thread." I mean, you're welcome to stay and keep it up, of course, at least as far as I'm concerned, but...you do see the irony here, yes?
 
:lol

To add to that metaphor: In this scenario, milk is my favorite drink and there's only one store in the world that sells it. There's a chance that if enough people recognize their milk is rotten and stop buying it, they'll stock fresh milk. I'm happy to picket outside on that sidewalk!
 
Also, as has been noted, you're just as implicated in the whole discussion as everyone else, if you keep checking in and saying "You know, it's enough now. You should really stop complaining in this complaint thread." I mean, you're welcome to stay and keep it up, of course, at least as far as I'm concerned, but...you do see the irony here, yes?
I kick myself every time after I post in this wretched hive of flowers and rainbows. :lol ...but what I'm not implicated in is crazy the fan entitlement and misogyny.

...and did I miss that this was a complaint thread? I thought it was a discussion thread. Being a solely negative thread must have slipped by. Apologies if so!

qQrVOBN.jpg



So it looks like a few minutes of the reboot is going to screen in front of the nation-wide GB screening on 6/7 and 6/8! I guess we'll have a better idea of what to expect.
 
So this is what it's become. The nexus of fan entitlement, gamer & net culture, and everyone gets a trophy:

http://kotaku.com/i-got-death-threats-for-reporting-on-a-video-game-delay-1779617741

I'm telling you man...something in the last two years or so, somethings changed. it's went from weird, to downright CRAZY.
Was this the same game developer who got death threats for delaying a ps4 game?

If I where him, i'd just say 'you know what, you don't get that game anymore, you entitled little **** ants'..

what is wrong with this world where it's not only getting insane, but violent?
 
So . . . . . .

where does all this fan teeth-gnashing & movie reshooting leave us?



Feigbusters is coming to a theater near you. It's happening. It won't be a great movie but it probably will sell. It appeals to an under-served audience with the Moms + girls pairing.

This probably means a sequel.
(I know the critic reviews will be bad. Same with Transformers movies.)



Maybe our most productive angle from here, is to push for a sequel to be made that is a whole notch better than the first one. Push Sony to kick Pascal/Feig off the project if we can.

It would quell the accusations of sexism in the GB fanbase. McCarthy & the cast reportedly wanted this one to be better in the first place. It would please Sony to have something that doesn't **** off the original fans and still keeps the batch of new ones that Feigbusters#1 will probably create.

Pushing for this would be more productive than indignantly screaming at Sony to abandon Feigbusters if the first one makes some decent money.
 
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The first one isn't released yet! I'm still quite happy to tell anyone who will listen not to support it while there's time. :)

And Feigbusters could make "some decent money" and still be lightyears away from having the box office power, legitimacy, or right to continue as another entry in the proper continuity. It can't even justify itself, let alone a sequel. That argument might have held more water if the thing wasn't a regurgitated pile of "nods" to the original film.
 
So . . . . . .

where does all this fan teeth-gnashing & movie reshooting leave us?


It would quell the accusations of sexism in the GB fanbase. McCarthy & the cast reportedly wanted this one to be better in the first place. It would please Sony to have something that doesn't **** off the original fans and still keeps the batch of new ones that Feigbusters#1 will probably create.

Pushing for this would be more productive than indignantly screaming at Sony to abandon Feigbusters if the first one makes some decent money.

at this point,

for me, the damage is done. the brand image is totally tarnished. Just like Ninja Turtles before it. they just didn't care enough to do it right the first time...and are making it for an audience not the fans, so, why should I support it. At least with Bay Turtles, where it was 50/50 for and against the first time around, with people holding out hope it could be good, now it seems mostly 80/20 against versus for. with the 20 being people who'd like anything just so long as it had a turtle logo stamped on it and the casual audience who thinks one of the turtles is named Ralph.. at least that is how the message boards read to me. some of that 20 is also, as you suggest, people hoping they learned their lesson the first time, and can look past other things like bad april oneil casting and bad designs.

quite frankly, sony doesn't care at this point. I think the real reason no one wanted to work on this franchise wasn't because they where afraid of tarnishing it (Video game writers proved you could do it right), but because they knew they'd have to work with the likes of Pascal and her friends...their reputation was enough to hold off this project as much as murray not wanting to do it.


At least the Bay Turtles camp TRIED to listen to fans to correct ONE major thing....white washing Shredder. but by then, the damage was done and it was too late as just another souless reboot. the real hand of the turtle franchise had been handed off to IDW by that point as the only one to get it right IMHO. if sony where smart, they'd have handed it off to dapper dan.
 
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