Full Afterburner Firefly............................
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pennausamike
Sr Member
Originally Posted by modeler1964 
Don't quite know what to say here. Maybe consider starting over...???
To each his own, but this model is right at the place I want with regards to size, expected price and detail.
The QMx Firefly is being handled by FX models and
based on the updates seen here:
http://www.fireflyshipworks.com/category/development/
it looks to be the incredible level of detail sought by the person who suggested "starting over".
The QMx Serenity will be a completed display replica about 18 inches long and will only be available as a finished piece.
I posted on the Firefly Ship Works site:
The originally suggested price for the QMx replica was in the $500-plus range and while it will most likely be gorgeous, it will also be the same as everyone else's.
If this three foot replica does reach completion and availability for sale, it is my intention to display it flying over an HO scale ALTRANS hovertrain as seen in "Trainjob".
I'm not a rivet-counter, so I expect that, based on what I've seen so far, this HO Firefly is going to make a pretty awesome display.
Don't quite know what to say here. Maybe consider starting over...???
To each his own, but this model is right at the place I want with regards to size, expected price and detail.
The QMx Firefly is being handled by FX models and
based on the updates seen here:
http://www.fireflyshipworks.com/category/development/
it looks to be the incredible level of detail sought by the person who suggested "starting over".
The QMx Serenity will be a completed display replica about 18 inches long and will only be available as a finished piece.
I posted on the Firefly Ship Works site:
The originally suggested price for the QMx replica was in the $500-plus range and while it will most likely be gorgeous, it will also be the same as everyone else's.
If this three foot replica does reach completion and availability for sale, it is my intention to display it flying over an HO scale ALTRANS hovertrain as seen in "Trainjob".
I'm not a rivet-counter, so I expect that, based on what I've seen so far, this HO Firefly is going to make a pretty awesome display.
Here is some more reference pictures I got watching the Firefly episode "Heart Of Gold" for guys to use for detailing their ships, sorry for the quality but I was snapping them off the computer screen.
Smooth engines
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-6/1032186/P2releasefiberglassgrinded011.JPG
Decal
Roof detail
This is very accurate, and I'm sanding the primer to get rid of the dust specks, this is a hobby.
So enjoy it.
I did change the shape of the neck vent inboard section. I made the bulging tapered section easier to pull and in my opinion sleeker looking. But I kept everything pretty much just like the plan veiws I had on hand.
By measuring everything.
I have to add a lot more detail. And refining to do but the measurements are good.
I love the HO idea. I'll make one for you Mike.
I'll get it done.
Smooth engines
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-6/1032186/P2releasefiberglassgrinded011.JPG
Decal
Roof detail
This is very accurate, and I'm sanding the primer to get rid of the dust specks, this is a hobby.
So enjoy it.
I did change the shape of the neck vent inboard section. I made the bulging tapered section easier to pull and in my opinion sleeker looking. But I kept everything pretty much just like the plan veiws I had on hand.
By measuring everything.
I have to add a lot more detail. And refining to do but the measurements are good.
I love the HO idea. I'll make one for you Mike.
I'll get it done.
Dang, said I'd weigh out...but now that it's been said....
It *does* need cleaning up. As well as the goop and panel issues, there's asymmetry in the basic form work. Not so much the outlines - they look quite OK! But the cross-sections are less so - just look at the nose pic and you'll see what I mean.
Moving on to the panelling, there's more than one problem showing here. Thin panels laid over uneven surfaces are themselves uneven. Many are also quite poorly cut - I suggest using a ruler or straightedge when cutting panels, and when you make a panel that features on both sides of the ship, make them at the same time and make REALLY SURE they are exactly the same as each other.
No offence, I hope, but I think you should consider stripping this back to the form work stage, correct the surface issues and then restart from there.
Like I said, I'm glad some of the posters like it; but I'm starting to wonder whether they're not seeing these issues. Guys, ARE you seeing these issues? Or do you just plan to do some resurfacing of your castings when they arrive?
Hmm, looking at the nose pic again I can see a lot of symetry issues, even crooked lines. Some of the other things pointed out are hard to tell with the caulk in the pictures.
KnightAsylum
Sr Member
Funny, many WIP pictures threads do not get so much "constructive criticism" around here.. I am sure it isn't the same ol' same ol' trollish behavior, that would just be sad.:thumbsdown
I was thinking it would be great for more folks to try building one, lots of observations about what is needed, maybe we should have a Firefly building thread, see what other folks can do. :confused When I go to buy one I would sure like to buy the best one that IS available.
I think maybe for this thread I will just say thanks for posting the WIP pics and I am interested in what it looks like in the end (all I really care about anyway.)
I was thinking it would be great for more folks to try building one, lots of observations about what is needed, maybe we should have a Firefly building thread, see what other folks can do. :confused When I go to buy one I would sure like to buy the best one that IS available.
I think maybe for this thread I will just say thanks for posting the WIP pics and I am interested in what it looks like in the end (all I really care about anyway.)
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I agree that the final product is what's important. Lots of things can change before the end of a project.
I can understand people's comments though, and I think it's good they are pointing things out now rather than later or let the problems kill the possible interest. Doesn't seem like trolling unless trolling now covers telling people if something needs work.
I can understand people's comments though, and I think it's good they are pointing things out now rather than later or let the problems kill the possible interest. Doesn't seem like trolling unless trolling now covers telling people if something needs work.
Speaking for myself, I've only recently rediscovered this forum after nearly four years' absence, but I'll try harder to post more criticism in future.
But I don't think you need to invoke trolling. Just look at the pictures.
Um. The problem is that UNLESS these issues are corrected NOW, the final product WILL SHARE THEM. If moulds are made from the master as it stands, the kit will a) have asymmetries in the overall shape, b) have uneven, non-flat surfaces, and c) have uneven and asymmetric panel work lacking straight edges.
Ron has detailed the surface...we're long past the sort of WIP stage where you'd overlook these issues.
KnightAsylum
Sr Member
Maybe so, it just seems I see some really armature work on these boards sometimes in plenty of other threads and I see the comments about what can be fixed along with supportive, encouraging comments, where these say things like "... it looks amateurish and just plain BAD", "... I am stating what should be obvious to all who see the pictures. Maybe consider starting over...???" or even "...I'm glad some of the posters like it; but I'm starting to wonder whether they're not seeing these issues." Those type of comments I have not seen in other WIP type threads. They are almost anti- advice - Not giving advice but putting down others for not being negative about a WIP.
I know the history, and I know that some people are chomping at the bit to be $#@holes, seems like the last day or so worth of responses are starting to come out on the tread, just hate to see it happen...again. Getting kind of tired of some of the "personality conflicts" that seem to be played out here like a grade school.
Still probably all in my head, I am sure none of that is happening here, and it all is in the spirit of true RPF board comrades and model making brotherhood.
Sorry for drifting off topic, I will go back to just watching for more WIP pics, and not reply to other peoples posts in the thread anymore.
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I stand by that comment. What, you'd prefer people said 'that's great! Now if you could just tweak this panel or that panel a tiny bit?' ? That's not doing anybody any favours or conveying the real scope of the needed work.
I'm sincerely curious - are the people commenting positively on this project blind to the issues some of the rest of us see? It could be; it isn't an attack to say so, that's just the reality of it - not everybody has an eye for detail. If that's not it then presumably they just think it's rude to be honest. But lack of honest feedback will turn you into an emperor without clothes in the end.
Please point me to some of the amateurish work in other threads and I'll be more than happy to post criticism in those also.
Lord Abaddon
Sr Member
Maybe so, it just seems I see some really armature work on these boards sometimes in plenty of other threads and I see the comments about what can be fixed along with supportive, encouraging comments, where these say things like "... it looks amateurish and just plain BAD", "... I am stating what should be obvious to all who see the pictures. Maybe consider starting over...???" or even "...I'm glad some of the posters like it; but I'm starting to wonder whether they're not seeing these issues." Those type of comments I have not seen in other WIP type threads. They are almost anti- advice - Not giving advice but putting down others for not being negative about a WIP.
I know the history, and I know that some people are chomping at the bit to be $#@holes, seems like the last day or so worth of responses are starting to come out on the tread, just hate to see it happen...again. Getting kind of tired of some of the "personality conflicts" that seem to be played out here like a grade school.
Still probably all in my head, I am sure none of that is happening here, and it all is in the spirit of true RPF board comrades and model making brotherhood.
Sorry for drifting off topic, I will go back to just watching for more WIP pics.
Well I'm right there with you KnightAsylum. And what caught my attention is those copping the biggest attitudes are those with the lowest post counts too it seems. Maybe they just lack such experience with kits they don't understand that there is clean up and work done after you actually buy it? Or maybe they are looking for perfection on the cheap because they either don't have the skills to do the work or the money for the higher end stuff? Comments can go both ways.
Nobody minds constructive criticism, but everyone dislikes just plain criticism, and in poor taste too.
As for me, it looks like it's coming along very well! That ship has a huge amount of details and a lot to be worked out. WIP means "work IN PROGRESS" and I look forward to seeing how this project will go.
I've been modelling for about 33 years. Did you read my last post? These are not 'fill the seams with Tamiya putty' issues. I don't want to be rude about this and I'm trying to be constructive AND HONEST. The fact is there are serious and major issues that will be very difficult (or impossible) to rectify in the clean-up stage. Can't we just agree that part and move on? Denial of the scope of the problem isn't going to do anyone any favours.
Just to make this clear, I'll never be in the market for any Firefly kit. The design does nothing for me.
I take offense at this unfounded comment. Every one of the negative posts has been dead on the money.
Would you please answer one question for me: do you think that details normallly go onto a master *before* the final shape/surface prep stages?
Lord Abaddon
Sr Member
How about waiting to see how the master is when done instead of attacking it right off the bat.
Then why in the world are you even commenting in this thread? :confused
There is nothing constructive about:
...or...
Wonder how you'd take such comments for your own WIP?
Instead of asking questions, making constructive comments, or just being patient to see how it goes assumed "experts" drop in (and in your case, not even with any interest in the product) and take a hatchet approach to someone's hard work. Very poor taste and shows a complete lack of regard for someone else's work.
I've been working on models for 32 years myself and details on a work in progress master can change throughout the progress of the model. This is the first stages of what Ron has clearly said is a project he is still doing a lot of work on. I for one appreciate his efforts and those who have offered up good criticism to help it along.
A) I'm not attacking it, I've offered some constructive criticism. What I am doing now is not repeating an attack; it is debating you. And B) I, and presumably the others, chose to comment at this stage because the issues are fundamental ones that won't be corrected without some *revision*, not *progress*. Am I making sense with that?
Selfless charity of course! ;p
One does not have to have an interest owning in the subject of a build to still find the project itself interesting. Does one? Maybe I'm alone in that.
Yes, there is. "Constructive criticism" does not carry the meanings of "positive", "morale-boosting", or "happy feel-good time". It means "useful", "contributing to an improved outcome" or "things you hate hearing now but are thankful for later".
All negative comments posted so far have been highly constructive. If followed, the suggestions would result in an improved product.
I'd get pissed off. Then I'd drink a beer, cool down, do some soul-searching and ask myself whether this is really my best work or not. Been there done that, it's not a hypothetical.
What do you mean 'instead of'? Questions have been asked and comments have been made.
I have not claimed to be an expert. Until tonight I would have assumed the issues which have been raised were obvious to anyone. I don't understand how taste enters into this. If I had no regard for someone else's work, then indeed I would not comment at all.
I see. OK, well that answers my question...in a way.
I guess everyone has different methods of working. For myself, when I'm building a model I spend a lot of time working on getting the surface perfect, especially where there are compound curves. Then I get the panelling nice and square, if there is any, THEN I do the details. It hadn't occurred to me that anyone might go the other way.
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anubispro
Well-Known Member
Why are You?
Your only posts seems to be in response to a "perceived" Troll?
I saw no "trolling" behavior at all,..until some here began imagining it and came charging over the hill to the rescue.
I assume these WIP pics are posted openly so that they can be viewed AND critiqued.
Where is your critique then?
How do you feel the work is progressing? Honestly.
Mine:
Positive: It is a large size that will lend itself well to many types of display ideas. Lots of room for super-detailing/lighting.
The basic form and shape are not too bad either.
A lot of work has gone into it and I can see it evident in the WIP.
I commend him on that.
Negative: For my taste, I am a strict proponent of symmetry.
So far the master has a few issues with that. I also have an issue with some of the appliqué panels in that they are not cut as cleanly or fixed to a flat surface as "I" would prefer.
Also, for my taste, some of the details are clearly different from the reference pics posted.
"I" would prefer these detail areas to be more "screen-accurate".
Is it a "Serenity"?, YES, by all means, and I look forward to seeing the completed piece.
For me, I hope that some of these issues that I and others have stated are corrected.
Am I a "Troll" now too?
BTW, It should be DEER in the median.....Not DEAR.
(unless its someones wife):lol
Yes, Dave - you have failed to post uncritical, unqualified praise; therefore you're a troll. :confused
Thanks for putting that so succinctly. An admirable summation!
For the record, I support your positive comments as much as your negative ones. I had even said myself that the outline accuracy is quite good!
I dunno...
Lord Abaddon
Sr Member
I'm interested in the kit, and I am not saying anyone is so much a troll and having a lack of etiquette and consideration.
Honestly I already stated I think it's coming along well. Ron said he has more work to do, including some bondo work, and I'm waiting for it to be father along before I add more to my comments.
Now THIS is constructive criticism:
And you note that tastes are different, and that is exactly right. I'm not a perfectionist, in fact I like things a bit "off" depending on what the subject is as that just lends more to the overall look. I want the ship to be a bit off in some ways, unlike the USS Enterprise this thing has seen some serious hardships.
Art is subjective, and models are art, but that doesn't mean you have to do a hatchet job when commenting. As an example regarding art...I hate Picasso, I think his work is that of a hack and a monkey could paint better, but if I met the man I would not say that to him but comment truthfully on various aspects of the work...angles, colors, etc. One can comment on something you don't like without being a jerk about it, especially to someone who put some hard work into it.
DARKSIDE72
Sr Member
:rolleyes
Mike it sounds as if you don't have a clue as to what a quality garage "kit" is or should be.
A kit it only as good as the master that it's cast from. It a master has glaring problems and or inaccuracy's it's a safe bet that the final product will mirror the same inconsistencies. A good garage kit shouldn't need a lot of clean-up and huge modifications to make a nice , build-able display piece. Any "experienced" builder can attest to this.
A kit builder shouldn't have to completely remaster the said kit in order to build the model. Or has your vast experience in the hobby been one of buying sub-par kits and spending weeks on end attempting to clean up the mess you paid good money for?
Martin is just pointing out the facts as they are seen. His experience in the hobby, blueprinting skills and his eye for detail should be listened to as they are second to none...
Lord Abaddon
Sr Member
Well you and I have always been on opposite sides of the tact factor at times! :lol
And I never said that the final sold kit should be "sub-par" or need a "lot of clean-up", but we aren't even close to that point yet, and that's what I'm saying. When we reach somewhat closer then comment, and still nobody has to come off snarky.
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